Disney Springs Discussion

[UniversalRBLX]

Read the full letter, gonna be blunt. While a few potentially legit employment law grievances toward the end, the language up front borders on obnoxious. I can't speak to the racial make-up of the back of the house, but I've never personally seen an African-American in the front of the house. It's incredibly tone deaf for primarily white employees to compare themselves TO SLAVES because they had to show up to a 9 a.m. meeting that should've been an email and have to shake the cold brew 10 times.

They have a point about the tips -- you can't pay a tip wage then tell them not to accept tips, should be paying at least minimum wage -- and I can't speak to the ADA issue, tho I doubt the Mouse would've let them build a noncompliant shop. But overall come off as petulant, overly dramatic children.

The first bullet point throws everything off and takes away some of the more significant/questionable policies this is suggesting.

The low wages and the unsanitary conditions are more than enough to draw attention. No need to complain about a 9AM meeting that could have been an email... just about everyone unfortunately deals with that, it is far from being the worst thing to happen.

I didn't know (if true) that Gideon's only paid a tip wage. Find it distasteful a store that has (at any given time) an hour+ long wait-time with buyers ready to buy multiple items is struggling to provide (at a minimum) the FL minimum wage.

I also don't want to speak on behalf of anyone, but DS servers do decent tips, would imagine Gideon's does (to a smaller extent obviously) as well.

 

[Allison]

I feel like regardless of language it shouldn’t be that controversial to expect a bakery (on Disney property no less) to have a safe working environment free of health code violations and definitely making more than state minimum wage for a job where they’re not considered wait staff.

 

[Jake S]

I feel like regardless of language it shouldn’t be that controversial to expect a bakery (on Disney property no less) to have a safe working environment free of health code violations and definitely making more than state minimum wage for a job where they’re not considered wait staff.

Yeah, I'd caution everyone to refrain from being dismissive about these complaints because of the rhetorical devices used in the letter. This was almost certainly not written by someone with any professional experience related to drafting or writing formal letters and, yes, it shows.

I also think, regardless of their claims regarding illegal behavior, it's admirable when workers agitate for better working conditions. I wish more people had the courage to tell their employer when they're not being treated well enough — and that more of us empathized with workers rather than management or ownership.

 

[DannyPowers]

Yeah, I'd caution everyone to refrain from being dismissive about these complaints because of the rhetorical devices used in the letter. This was almost certainly not written by someone with any professional experience related to drafting or writing formal letters and, yes, it shows.

I also think, regardless of their claims regarding illegal behavior, it's admirable when workers agitate for better working conditions. I wish more people had the courage to tell their employer when they're not being treated well enough — and that more of us empathized with workers rather than management or ownership.

My point exactly. Make some noise, try to make things better.

But maybe have someone with experience read over the note first.

 

[GA-MBIT]

I certainly hope that any mistreatment of workers is corrected and I support the workers in the situation. I will agree though that the letter definitely reads pretty LARP-y especially towards the beginning and should've been trimmed and organized better. I get why they used the writing style for the text on the public social media post, as Gideon's has a pretty specific Victorian-type style and using the flowery language there helps to grab people who are just scrolling randomly, but for the letter itself it's definitely strange and unserious. If there are legitimate issues here, I hope they see some better organization soon.

That said, the focus should be moreso on the derogatory language from upper management, low wages, and insufficient workplace safety rather than the dorky wording of it all. It's poorly delivered, but the requests shouldn't be dismissed.

 

[UNIrd]

I'm sorry. If you can list 10 pages worth of things you don't like about your job, you should just quit. The cookies aren't that good.

 

[GA-MBIT]

I'm sorry. If you can list 10 pages worth of things you don't like about your job, you should just quit. The cookies aren't that good.

The job exists and it isn't going away. Someone will be in this role as baker, or cashier, or greeter, or anything else. It's on the company to make sure that the work environment is a safe and healthy one. Not the workers to deal with whatever happens because 'it is what it is'.

It can also be pretty difficult to leave a job position once you're there for any number of reasons. Especially in a housing market as volatile and inflated as Orlando's currently. It's not always an option to "just quit".

I respect the hell out of these guys because they're trying to make sure that future employees don't have to deal with the same conditions that they did. That takes a lot of guts, especially when they've said themselves that other coworkers have been fired for speaking up about these things. They don't want to quit, they deserve a better workplace.

 

[UNIrd]

The job exists and it isn't going away. Someone will be in this role as baker, or cashier, or greeter, or anything else. It's on the company to make sure that the work environment is a safe and healthy one. Not the workers to deal with whatever happens because 'it is what it is'.

It can also be pretty difficult to leave a job position once you're there for any number of reasons. Especially in a housing market as volatile and inflated as Orlando's currently. It's not always an option to "just quit".

I respect the hell out of these guys because they're trying to make sure that future employees don't have to deal with the same conditions that they did. That takes a lot of guts, especially when they've said themselves that other coworkers have been fired for speaking up about these things. They don't want to quit, they deserve a better workplace.

I must have not read the same document. I thought they embarrassed themselves and made it sound like a literal children writing a list of demands. These guys listed how they wanted to change the tasks, the people they work with, the pay structure, the times they are asked to do the job, and on and on and on.

I'm not saying Gideons isn't a toxic work environment. They made it sound awful and I hope the working conditions to improve for those who continue to choose to work there. But changing everything about where you work or just changing where you work? Sounds like a choice can be made.

 

[Allison]

I must have not read the same document. I thought they embarrassed themselves and made it sound like a literal children writing a list of demands. These guys listed how they wanted to change the tasks, the people they work with, the pay structure, the times they are asked to do the job, and on and on and on.

I'm not saying Gideons isn't a toxic work environment. They made it sound awful and I hope the working conditions to improve for those who continue to choose to work there. But changing everything about where you work or just changing where you work? Sounds like a choice can be made.

Sadly though not everyone is privileged enough to just quit any job whenever they want and land on their feet.

The letter wasn’t well written, we all see that, but the point of it shouldn’t be missed—an $8.95 below minimum wage position in FL is an unlivable wage while dangerous working conditions (I wouldn’t call exposing having to work without AC in a 104 degree bakery embarrassing) are a safety risk at best. That shouldn’t be something controversial to point out.

 

[Nick]

Sadly though not everyone is privileged enough to just quit any job whenever they want and land on their feet.

The letter wasn’t well written, we all see that, but the point of it shouldn’t be missed—an $8.95 below minimum wage position in FL is an unlivable wage while dangerous working conditions (I wouldn’t call exposing having to work without AC in a 104 degree bakery embarrassing) are a safety risk at best. That shouldn’t be something controversial to point out.

Right and they might be doing this with a plan to leave anyway. But that doesn’t mean whoever gets hired next should be subjected to those same subpar working conditions.

And that’s also very important to point out about pay. If you don’t have a second job and you aren’t living with family, you’re probably living in your car at that rate of pay.

 

[UNIrd]

Sadly though not everyone is privileged enough to just quit any job whenever they want and land on their feet.

The letter wasn’t well written, we all see that, but the point of it shouldn’t be missed—an $8.95 below minimum wage position in FL is an unlivable wage while dangerous working conditions (I wouldn’t call exposing having to work without AC in a 104 degree bakery embarrassing) are a safety risk at best. That shouldn’t be something controversial to point out.

Ha. Two things I did not mention. It's everything else that's embarrassing to even point out. "What we're NOT gonna do is shake that coffee 10 times." lol What if that's the job? "Don't you EVER invite us to a 9am meeting." Some of us have 9am meetings every day.

But yes, obviously they made extremely valid points about problematic working conditions in this weird hostage demand letter written in crayon.

 

[Allison]

Ha. Two things I did not mention. It's everything else that's embarrassing to even point out. "What we're NOT gonna do is shake that coffee 10 times." lol What if that's the job? "Don't you EVER invite us to a 9am meeting." Some of us have 9am meetings every day.

But yes, obviously they made extremely valid points about problematic working conditions in this weird hostage demand letter written in crayon.

If someone were to come to me a blubbering mess upset about how someone treated them, I wouldn’t be focused on how composed their language was when they told me, but, instead on trying to help them.

I’m hoping now that the topic of the letter being poorly written has really been beaten into the ground, maybe we can all concentrate on the more important aspect which is clearly toxic at best working conditions that absolutely need to change.

 

[GA-MBIT]

I think the main point is that dismissing their valid concerns and pleas because they wrote a poor letter or requested some questionable things is just that: dismissing these worker's valid concerns and pleas.

There will be a ton of pressure on these workers already from a lot of different, and very high-up places, and I feel like this community hyperfocusing on these aspects of the situation is just kinda laughing and rubbernecking at a bunch of vulnerable people while they're down, and for no real good reason at that.

Half of the point of the letter is to act as a starting point for negotiation. Yes, we all know it's poorly written, but even if it wasn't there would still be some big asks from the workers because that's just how these things go. You start at the ideal and whittle down to an acceptable middleground.

 

[Allison]

There will be a ton of pressure on these workers already from a lot of different, and very high-up places

I’m sad to see it looks like it’s started.

 

[Jake S]

I think this is a good summation of the complaints.

 

[saint.piss]