Disneyland Resort

[HandsomePete]

Given how much flak someone like Paul Pressler took, it’s been a little surprising that Ken Potrock doesn’t seem to have gotten the same. Seems like pretty correlated timing between people’s thoughts on the direction the property is going and the DVC/consumer products guy with no theme park experience showing up……

 

[Freak]

This is really unacceptable unless they actually plan to start building the Avengers E-Ticket soon and they decided that they needed that slice of land.

This further shows how they minimized Avengers Campus potential. Avengers Campus is a downgrade from Bug's Land and I will stand by that.

 

[Jake S]

I didn't expect to agree with it, but I think he's got a point. My wife and I were talking last night about shifting away from purchasing annual passes to parks, in large part because the places with passes we can afford aren't the ones we want to spend a lot of time in. Prioritizing a couple splurgy visits to Orlando and Anaheim each year wouldn't necessarily save us money, but it would squeeze a lot more enjoyment out of the dollars we spend.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I didn't expect to agree with it, but I think he's got a point. My wife and I were talking last night about shifting away from purchasing annual passes to parks, in large part because the places with passes we can afford aren't the ones we want to spend a lot of time in. Prioritizing a couple splurgy visits to Orlando and Anaheim each year wouldn't necessarily save us money, but it would squeeze a lot more enjoyment out of the dollars we spend.

Disneyland and Universal would have half the guests in them (or less) many days with out APS...heck Knotts, Sea World and Six Flags would be ghost towns and no way be in business

Theme parks can rarely afford to exist without AP's.

Unless its a really busy time, why is it a bad deal if I'm there or not...they are going to have the ride or show going anyway so on most normal or slow days....really would not do anything to run the parks into the ground more

The World we live in is a Subscription model now, you either adapt to it or fail in many cases. Look at Physical media and theaters that don't offer something like AMC a-list. Look at Alamo Draft House part of it is because investors want more money but another part is...some care about quality but most clearly can't afford it.

 

[Jake S]

jerrod, did you read the article

 

[deadbydawn]

I didn't expect to agree with it, but I think he's got a point. My wife and I were talking last night about shifting away from purchasing annual passes to parks, in large part because the places with passes we can afford aren't the ones we want to spend a lot of time in. Prioritizing a couple splurgy visits to Orlando and Anaheim each year wouldn't necessarily save us money, but it would squeeze a lot more enjoyment out of the dollars we spend.

This was an interesting read. My wife and I were both lifelong Annual Passholders. We chose to not get the renew when they brought them back as Magic Keys, primarily because of all the fine print details and reservation system. A lot of people I knew couldn't wait to get back, so they jumped at the first opportunity to get a pass again, only to complain later about the same details that kept me from purchasing it in the first place. Even now, they have found a way to create a false sense of demand with the pulsing of Magic Key sales.

I don't know if the answer is as black and white as getting rid of annual passes at theme parks, but for us we only visit Disneyland once a year (twice if we are lucky) and have a really enjoyable time.

 

[Jerroddragon]

jerrod, did you read the article

Yeah, he even admits many parks would close if they made this move

They can try if they like but....It's just not in the cards. Movie Pass, Netfix's and Parks like Six Flags and Universal changed the game yearsssss ago

They can try to put the genie in the bottle but your investors will fight you at every turn because your going to lose money

 

[IzzyB]

Yeah, he even admits many parks would close if they made this move

They can try if they like but....It's just not in the cards. Movie Pass, Netfix's and Parks like Six Flags and Universal changed the game yearsssss ago

They can try to put the genie in the bottle but your investors will fight you at every turn because your going to lose money

I agree, this was an interesting read, but not sure I agree on some of the points. I think smaller parks would have issues. For example, we get Dollywood season pass because it seems cheaper than day passes and gives us flexibility. By doing this we end up many years going more than once to the area. This year we are going twice. If we didn't have AP we would never do two trips, there would be no incentive. That means F&B sales they lose out on. Same with our local parks. I don't know that I would go very often if at all without the AP option. Maybe a long weekend trip every couple years to one of the parks? And we spend money on F&B, so that is money they are leaving on the table with F&B/Merch and the sale of the AP from me and most of the people I know. I don't see how this even benefits the Orlando theme parks honestly.

 

[Jake S]

annual pass holders typically spend less money per visit than guests on regular tickets. having more annual pass holders in the park makes the park going experience worse for guests on regular tickets. that incentivizes parks to provide line skipping passes, which end up feeling like a necessity for guests who only get to go once in a while. that increases the cost of a visit while also lowering satisfaction.

I absolutely agree that parks like knott's wouldn't survive without annual pass holders. but that's not because it's "small" or a "regional park." it's because the experience is poor. for parks like knott's and magic mountain, pass holders are a crutch.

that's the gist of the argument, and I think it's pretty compelling (obviously).

 

[Jerroddragon]

annual pass holders typically spend less money per visit than guests on regular tickets. having more annual pass holders in the park makes the park going experience worse for guests on regular tickets. that incentivizes parks to provide line skipping passes, which end up feeling like a necessity for guests who only get to go once in a while. that increases the cost of a visit while also lowering satisfaction.

I absolutely agree that parks like knott's wouldn't survive without annual pass holders. but that's not because it's "small" or a "regional park." it's because the experience is poor. for parks like knott's and magic mountain, pass holders are a crutch.

that's the gist of the argument, and I think it's pretty compelling (obviously).

Universal is selling EA for HHN, they want it to be packed so they can sell express and EA.

I'm not disagreeing with him without APs the park going experience would be better but we live in America its all about how much money you can make the more guests in the park the more people buy Genie Plus and food, even if 1.3 the APs buy food its still food that would not be bought other wise and what about popcorn buckets?

Disney makes a ton off those and if there are no APs wayyyy less things being sold, less limited time merch you can have and what not.

But I for sure would loveeeeee a month every year where there are no APs or Fast Passes and enjoy the parks like back in the day

 

[HandsomePete]

I’m not giving them my email to read that so I’ll just say:

When the parks are less crowded, people have a better experience because they can go on more rides because lines are shorter.

The calculus is: if removing the passholders makes the experience “better enough” for the non-passholders to pay enough more to offset the loss of passholder revenue, then you do that. If not, you don’t screw over the passholders.

Not ascribing right or wrong to that - but does Universal have enough data to do that analysis? No. Does Disney? Yes.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I’m not giving them my email to read that so I’ll just say:

When the parks are less crowded, people have a better experience because they can go on more rides because lines are shorter.

The calculus is: if removing the passholders makes the experience “better enough” for the non-passholders to pay enough more to offset the loss of passholder revenue, then you do that. If not, you don’t screw over the passholders.

Not ascribing right or wrong to that - but does Universal have enough data to do that analysis? No. Does Disney? Yes.

If Disney does then AP's must make them money because they could just close the Magic Keys forever

 

[IzzyB]

annual pass holders typically spend less money per visit than guests on regular tickets. having more annual pass holders in the park makes the park going experience worse for guests on regular tickets. that incentivizes parks to provide line skipping passes, which end up feeling like a necessity for guests who only get to go once in a while. that increases the cost of a visit while also lowering satisfaction.

I absolutely agree that parks like knott's wouldn't survive without annual pass holders. but that's not because it's "small" or a "regional park." it's because the experience is poor. for parks like knott's and magic mountain, pass holders are a crutch.

that's the gist of the argument, and I think it's pretty compelling (obviously).

Yes the guests would have a better experience, would the parks make more money? I don't think so. Because like the article says you would have to lower the price of tickets and that is to get MORE people in, so would it be less crowded in the end since the idea is still they need more than just day passes to exist? SDC was REALLY crowded when we went to it and their argument is that SDC has less season passholders.

I’m not giving them my email to read that so I’ll just say:

When the parks are less crowded, people have a better experience because they can go on more rides because lines are shorter.

The calculus is: if removing the passholders makes the experience “better enough” for the non-passholders to pay enough more to offset the loss of passholder revenue, then you do that. If not, you don’t screw over the passholders.

Not ascribing right or wrong to that - but does Universal have enough data to do that analysis? No. Does Disney? Yes.

The article says you would need to lower prices to get enough people to attend the park. Also, if the parks like Uni and Disney really cared about lower lines they wouldn't lower ops to keep lines inflated.

 

[Jake S]

Yes the guests would have a better experience, would the parks make more money? I don't think so.

I think parks could, yes.

 

[IzzyB]

I think parks could, yes.

I mean AP passes were started for a reason and I doubt for the benefit of the guest. So I just don't see the reasoning here that parks would make more money.

I know a park like Dollywood would absolutely lose money on me. Because we would never consider a second trip during the year and we spend a lot of money on food and Merch with 5 of us there. The 3 day ticket is less than a season pass so they wouldn't make more on the tickets either, they would make less. We buy season passes for the convenience of being able to go whenever not because they cost less.

I don't think I would do many trips to local parks and again I drop more than $100 on food alone every time I step into Universal not to mention my kids spend their money on Merch. Last time there we bought 2 owls.

I understand people on vacation spend more, but even in the case of Dollywood we would go less often. So would the same happen to Universal and Disney people who buy APs and go multiple times a year? That would be less hotels, less food, etc.

 

[Jake S]

I think the argument centers on a couple things:

Would super fans actually go less if they did not have annual passes? And if so, would they actually spend less? Or would those super fans, instead of going regularly and spending less money than a typical guest, go once or twice a year and spend significantly more?

Would more non-super fans be converted to super fans because they're attending great parks with lower crowds? Would putting an emphasis on the experience of those non-super fans lead to better experiences, better word of mouth and a greater potential for widening your audience?

I have no idea! But I think it's plausible. I absolutely don't think any park, whether it's Disneyland or Magic Mountain, has the stomach for the drop in regular revenue they'd see by dumping annual passes. But guest behavior has been altered by the introduction of a culture that incentivizes buying an annual pass. That suggests to me that the behavior can be altered.

Most guests aren't buying annual passes for ideological reasons. They're buying them for material reasons. Change the material factors on the ground and you'd see a change in behavior.

 

[saint.piss]

Love this show so much

 

[Jerroddragon]

Too bad the Photo op for Doc Who is already gone...no idea why they bring them out for like a week and then take them away....its summer think its pretty easy free advertising for the show

 

[IzzyB]

I think the argument centers on a couple things:

Would super fans actually go less if they did not have annual passes? And if so, would they actually spend less? Or would those super fans, instead of going regularly and spending less money than a typical guest, go once or twice a year and spend significantly more?

Would more non-super fans be converted to super fans because they're attending great parks with lower crowds? Would putting an emphasis on the experience of those non-super fans lead to better experiences, better word of mouth and a greater potential for widening your audience?

I have no idea! But I think it's plausible. I absolutely don't think any park, whether it's Disneyland or Magic Mountain, has the stomach for the drop in regular revenue they'd see by dumping annual passes. But guest behavior has been altered by the introduction of a culture that incentivizes buying an annual pass. That suggests to me that the behavior can be altered.

Most guests aren't buying annual passes for ideological reasons. They're buying them for material reasons. Change the material factors on the ground and you'd see a change in behavior.

I guess growing up prior to annual passes (heck I remember ticket books) this lower crowds/better experience thing seems very hypothetical and not true. I remember waiting over 2 hours in a line at Cedar point for a coaster. One of the reasons I have never been back to Cedar point even though I love coasters. I just remember how crowded it was. I have been to SDC which the poster claims has less APs and it was crowded. We waiting over 90 minutes for their new ride. Was there ever a time when lines were this fictional lower level? I mean yes express 100% increased wait times, but did AP passes increase them? I don't remember my local parks lines increasing more until express was added everywhere.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Just throwing this out there in case you wanted to see any of these shows just in case they go away. Also the Shows at the Fantasy Fare went from 7 days a week shows to 4 days a week.

RUMOR: More Disneyland Resort Entertainment Cuts Include Five & Dime, All Avengers Campus Shows, and Green Army Men - WDW News Today

Disneyland Resort is reportedly cutting Five & Dime, all Avengers Campus shows, and more entertainment from Disney California Adventure.

wdwnt.com