Touring Plans: WDW "Observed" Increased Stand By Times

[Mad Dog]

There's a really interesting discussion going on a WDW Magic right now concerning the "TouringPlans Observed" large increase in stand by times at the WDW parks. January observed attraction line times were actually longer than summer lines. The thread is "Len Testa Crowd Analysis". Len is the owner of Touring Plans and if you check out page 8 of the thread, he has a detailed statistical analysis of what he thinks is going on with staff and ride vehicle cutbacks. He also has a breakdown of the actual observed present ride capacities of many of the MK main attractions, which some are significantly lower than we've been led to believe in the past. All in all, a very good read.

Mod Edit: Reference links

Len Testa Crowd Analysis | Page 8 | WDWMAGIC - Unofficial Walt Disney World discussion forums

DIS Unplugged Podcast – 03/06/18 – Disney World Show | The DIS Unplugged Disney Podcast

 

[bob albert]

As a touring plans user the last times I did single hopper days at Disney have been way worse crowd/wait wise than expected based on the predictions. If I didn't have the ability to adjust on the fly and luck out on some key bus timings It would have pretty much hosed the 4 parks in a day plan. The cuts during slow times and screwing touring plans on years of historical data really handicap the ability to cram the parks in greatly.

 

[Mad Dog]

January was really bad. The TP crowd calendar was off by a lot, like level 3 days ending up level 8 and 9's. Testa has brought this up before and TP had to keep adjusting line times and crowd levels. But it seems January was the apex that busted the system big time. And, as Len keeps saying, attendance increases don't justify the much larger observed stand by times....This time he actually sent in his observers to count how many vehicles they were running,load times, etc. It's not so much that there's no slow times anymore, the real fact is that even on slow attendance days Disney cuts staffing and vehicle load times so it seems like the parks are crowded, even though they really aren't.

 

[bob albert]

It is absolute insanity that disney is not obsessed with increasing overall capacity of the resorts given demand but my fear is that they figured out they the could extend vacations artificially by making it take longer to do everything and transferring the blame on the guests' lack of planning that they missed out on anything. I think we have gotten to the point where the data they have is ruining all the loopholes/slow times of those in the know.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Disney wants to hit a mythical “x amount of attractions a day” limit. This is why I keep harping that wait times are not indicators of attendance or popularity.

Also check out the bonus podcast Len did with The Dis.

 

[Mad Dog]

It is absolute insanity that disney is not obsessed with increasing overall capacity of the resorts given demand but my fear is that they figured out they the could extend vacations artificially by making it take longer to do everything and transferring the blame on the guests' lack of planning that they missed out on anything. I think we have gotten to the point where the data they have is ruining all the loopholes/slow times of those in the know.

Yeah, I think the extend vacations is right on, and yes, Joes' right that you can't judge popularity using wait times. Too many variables there.

 

[belloq87]

I haven't made my way through that entire thread yet, but this whole issue fascinates and frightens me. It seems there's been a fairly radical change in approach to the way Disney views the "slow times."

When I visited the Magic Kingdom on a Friday in late October of 2015, I was in the park from 9:10am t0 5:30pm, and I was able to do 19 attractions. Something tells me that will be virtually impossible during my next trip later this fall.

 

[Ashhanbre]

They should stop focusing on numbers and focus more on guest satisfaction.

 

[Disneyhead]

This is going to bite them in the tail. People avoid the high season for a reason. If all year "feels" like the high season, some folks will choose a different vacation destination.

 

[Mad Dog]

This is going to bite them in the tail. People avoid the high season for a reason. If all year "feels" like the high season, some folks will choose a different vacation destination.

Yes. I've always gone to WDW during the off season so I wouldn't have to stand in summer or holiday season length lines. If every month ends up like January 2018, I'll quit going except for a day here and there. My personal guest satisfaction is in direct proportion to how long lines are.....I can see this hitting the limits of guest tolerance when GESWL debuts, and the visitor floodgates open, unless WDW normalizes their staffing/vehicle & load situation...A company that starts taking their customers for granted & cuts corners, is going to pay in the long term, no matter how strong their brand. Take heed at what happened to Sears, one of the strongest brands ever in the American marketplace, when they started playing penny wise pound foolish, and cut their guarantees on their Craftsmen & appliance brands. They owned the tool and appliance business up to that misstep.That started their downward trend, long before on line competition, & they never recovered. Customers have their limits when it comes to brand loyalty.....Lesson: Never turn your company over to the bean counters.

 

[Coasted]

For example - was a shame to see TimTracker Youtube disappointed by the long crowds and “only four rides” long queues. Previously I have only ever seen him really upbeat / chirpy.

We experienced the reality of 120mins wait times last year. I guess non-forum GPublic only realise once go through the gates. Queues will only get worse SWL TSL, before they get better (if you kno what I mean)

(Excuse my double post from DHS thread)

 

[Parkscope Joe]

This is going to bite them in the tail. People avoid the high season for a reason. If all year "feels" like the high season, some folks will choose a different vacation destination.

Disney keeps wanting to operate the theme parks not like theme parks.

 

[Mad Dog]

Disney keeps wanting to operate the theme parks not like theme parks.

Good comment. :thumbsup:...heh, they need to do a "Bean Counters Ride"....A new drop tower to replace TOT since they don't want to pay rights fees....The top of the Tower is the highest Guest Satisfaction score. As you drop the number reflects staffing cuts. When you hit bottom, and crash into smithereens because value engineering neglected to pay for adequate safety measures, the bottom line lights up, and the bugle plays Taps.

 

[Disneyhead]

"Right Size Staffing" is suppose to optimize the staff size to where the Co. can save by not overstaffing, while not compromising the guest experience.


That apparently isn't Disney's objective.

 

[Mad Dog]

"Right Size Staffing" is suppose to optimize the staff size to where the Co. can save by not overstaffing, while not compromising the guest experience.


That apparently isn't Disney's objective.

New WDW Executive motto: "The hell with the guest experience. Protect our bonus'" Instead of "Let them eat cake", it's "Let them rot in line 'Forever'."

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I haven't made my way through that entire thread yet, but this whole issue fascinates and frightens me. It seems there's been a fairly radical change in approach to the way Disney views the "slow times."

When I visited the Magic Kingdom on a Friday in late October of 2015, I was in the park from 9:10am t0 5:30pm, and I was able to do 19 attractions. Something tells me that will be virtually impossible during my next trip later this fall.

I remember one of the MM+ articles mentioning Disney found that guests who experienced something like 7 experiences a day were the happiest. Lower and their experience fell exponentially and any higher was the gains were not noticeable. That's why DHS operates with four rides and 6 shows "at full price".

Edit: Len says the magic number is 10. Which explains a lot. Transparency: I work as a contractor for TP.

 

[tielo]

As I said before, Disney is creating problems to sell solutions.
Sure we have a crappy bus service, we don't fix it just pay for a minivan.
Sure we have limited viewing spaces for shows, parades and fireworks, we don't fix it just pay for diner packages.
Sure the lines are as long as we can make them, stay in a hotel room and pay for the right to book those desirable rides before anyone else (and trust me more sceams are coming).
I just stopped going to Disney World, I have to much self esteem to not get milked like a cow by the mouse.
Remember this never was the rule. Disney was always crowded but you always got you money worth.

 

[UNIrd]

Let's not pretend there still isn't tremendous value in a day at any Disney park. It just takes planning beforehand. Just showing up and going with the flow is ill-advised, but anyone on this forum is smart enough to know that.

 

[Disneyhead]

Let's not pretend there still isn't tremendous value in a day at any Disney park. It just takes planning beforehand. Just showing up and going with the flow is ill-advised, but anyone on this forum is smart enough to know that.

That defeats the purpose of owning an AP for us locals. Popping over to the parks after work is pointless.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Let's not pretend there still isn't tremendous value in a day at any Disney park. It just takes planning beforehand. Just showing up and going with the flow is ill-advised, but anyone on this forum is smart enough to know that.

I want to break down this post some as I don't fully agree.

1) Value is subjective. If one wants to go to a Disney park for experiences then it can be a value. Buying one day tickets each day is not a value in my eyes. I'd rather spend $100+ on a concert ticket or to a huge sporting event than go to DHS at this point in time.

2) I don't buy into the "you can't just show up you have to plan" mentality. Yes, it's advised you should do that, but that should not be the baseline. Imagine going to a fancy, expensive restaurant and being told your bad experience due to slow service and poor food was because you didn't "plan before hand". I think this is dismissive and elitist.

3) Your two comments still don't apply to the issue at hand: Disney Parks and Resorts reducing capacity (parks, hotels, etc) to save money and to deliver an inferior experience. This is beyond adjusting staffing to guest demand, they are making an exponentially worse experience. As Len posted wait times from 2014/2015 went up 20-60%. Planning means nothing when directives come to reduce costs and provide a significantly worse guest experience. It should not be the full responsibility of the guests to make sure they have a good time.