Touring Plans: WDW "Observed" Increased Stand By Times

[UNIrd]

That defeats the purpose of owning an AP for us locals. Popping over to the parks after work is pointless.

Sorry. Disney isn't catering to people who pop in after work. And even then, you can make your 3 FP+ or try to book them that same day on the app.

I want to break down this post some as I don't fully agree.

1) Value is subjective. If one wants to go to a Disney park for experiences then it can be a value. Buying one day tickets each day is not a value in my eyes. I'd rather spend $100+ on a concert ticket or to a huge sporting event than go to DHS at this point in time.

2) I don't buy into the "you can't just show up you have to plan" mentality. Yes, it's advised you should do that, but that should not be the baseline. Imagine going to a fancy, expensive restaurant and being told your bad experience due to slow service and poor food was because you didn't "plan before hand". I think this is dismissive and elitist.

3) Your two comments still don't apply to the issue at hand: Disney Parks and Resorts reducing capacity (parks, hotels, etc) to save money and to deliver an inferior experience. This is beyond adjusting staffing to guest demand, they are making an exponentially worse experience. As Len posted wait times from 2014/2015 went up 20-60%. Planning means nothing when directives come to reduce costs and provide a significantly worse guest experience. It should not be the full responsibility of the guests to make sure they have a good time.

My statement wasn't on it's own. It was in response to someone saying they don't go to Disney World anymore and you don't get your money's worth. Sure that's subjective... but so is your statement saying you rather pay $100 for a concert instead of DHS. Okay, cool. So a concert is usually 2 hours of entertainment. You can spend 2-3 hours at DHS watching shows and nighttime entertainment alone. That's not including any rides, character meet and greets, streetmosphere, shopping, dining, etc.

Obviously value is subjective. It's probably the most subjective thing on the planet. But no one here is paying $100 to get into DHS.

Slow service and poor food because you didn't "plan before hand"? You're not even relating sensical things. Now, a 2-hour wait at primetime for dinner because you didn't make a reservation. Now that's where planning could have been helpful. See the difference?

If you're not advising people who are looking to visit Disney parks to get their at park opening to maximize their time, or to take advantage of FP+, or to take a break in the middle of the day and come back at night, etc, you're basically doing them a disservice. Sorry. I don't know when it was a good time to just waltz into a Disney park and to expect to have access to whatever rides at whatever time but it's definitely not the case today.

So plan accordingly.

 

[fryoj]

Yeah, their current operating plan is short sighted. The idea is that they'll get people to extend vacations. That's fine. I get that. But what happens when you extend your vacation and your entire week there consists of getting to the park at rope drop to ride a couple rides, hit your three FP+ rides, got back to the hotel for 8 hours, then come back after dark to ride a couple more. Who wants to do that for a week? What if you don't want to get up at 6? I mean it is a vacation right? What if you aren't on the ball and book all your FP's 6 months out? If you spend the $3K+ that a week at Disney is going to cost, you are going to be pretty PO'ed at the end of the week. Are you going to book another week? I'm already second guessing my post SW trip over this stuff.

Honestly though, I could very well see this plan as a way to completely monetize the FP system. Make the waits horrible all the time and the people who can afford to throw money away won't think twice about tossing a couple hundred a day to not wait in line. Or just book a room thats a few grand extra for the week. Whichever way they want to go with it.

 

[belloq87]

I remember one of the MM+ articles mentioning Disney found that guests who experienced something like 7 experiences a day were the happiest. Lower and their experience fell exponentially and any higher was the gains were not noticeable. That's why DHS operates with four rides and 6 shows "at full price".

Edit: Len says the magic number is 10. Which explains a lot. Transparency: I work as a contractor for TP.

I will certainly take your word for all of this. I would also say that if I spent a day at Magic Kingdom and only got do have 7 (or even 10) "experiences," I would walk away feeling like the day was extremely underwhelming and not worth the money.

 

[bob albert]

Sorry. Disney isn't catering to people who pop in after work. And even then, you can make your 3 FP+ or try to book them that same day on the app.



My statement wasn't on it's own. It was in response to someone saying they don't go to Disney World anymore and you don't get your money's worth. Sure that's subjective... but so is your statement saying you rather pay $100 for a concert instead of DHS. Okay, cool. So a concert is usually 2 hours of entertainment. You can spend 2-3 hours at DHS watching shows and nighttime entertainment alone. That's not including any rides, character meet and greets, streetmosphere, shopping, dining, etc.

Obviously value is subjective. It's probably the most subjective thing on the planet. But no one here is paying $100 to get into DHS.

Slow service and poor food because you didn't "plan before hand"? You're not even relating sensical things. Now, a 2-hour wait at primetime for dinner because you didn't make a reservation. Now that's where planning could have been helpful. See the difference?

If you're not advising people who are looking to visit Disney parks to get their at park opening to maximize their time, or to take advantage of FP+, or to take a break in the middle of the day and come back at night, etc, you're basically doing them a disservice. Sorry. I don't know when it was a good time to just waltz into a Disney park and to expect to have access to whatever rides at whatever time but it's definitely not the case today.

So plan accordingly.

While advising people how to work the current system is good, rides have a fixed capacity in a day. If every person planned well it wouldn't fix anything. Disney is already an expensive premium product. It is entirely fair that the average guest should expect the premier park operator in the world to do a good job maintaining high capacity.

 

[UNIrd]

While advising people how to work the current system is good, rides have a fixed capacity in a day. If every person planned well it wouldn't fix anything. Disney is already an expensive premium product. It is entirely fair that the average guess should expect the premier park operator in the world to do a good job maintaining high capacity.

Everyone should expect them to and they have the best ride operations of any theme park chain in the world. The point is even WITH it operating at the highest capacity, and I totally trust Len's theories that they currently don't, doesn't mean you're going to get to do everything. Disney has figured out how to spread crowds across the year, which wasn't true of a decade ago. Dynamic pricing, blackout dates, Epcot Festivals, Free Dining, 5ks, etc. have all contributed to this to the point that Summer is now a softer time than some of the earlier parts of the year and Fall. Things have changed. I wouldn't not visit Disney because of it.

 

[bob albert]

Everyone should expect them to and they have the best ride operations of any theme park chain in the world. The point is even WITH it operating at the highest capacity, and I totally trust Len's theories that they currently don't, doesn't mean you're going to get to do everything. Disney has figured out how to spread crowds across the year, which wasn't true of a decade ago. Dynamic pricing, blackout dates, Epcot Festivals, Free Dining, 5ks, etc. have all contributed to this to the point that Summer is now a softer time than some of the earlier parts of the year and Fall. Things have changed. I wouldn't not visit Disney because of it.

If you could trust that disney is doing everything they can to maximize capacity only then could you put some blame on the guest for expecting to get everything done at a crowded time. There are a lot of people that would not visit Disney if they could not count on booking a slower period they could get things done. Disney built their brand on always trying to have the best experience for guests and are moving away from that now. Sure the parks are packed now off of years of reputation, but they can just as well build a negative reputation. If I had a family disney would be consistently a no brainer for vacation from where I am a few years ago given the great packages available. Now I would look at Cedar Point, Dollywood,or even universal/sea world for less.

 

[Ashhanbre]

Long lines can turn a happy day into a miserable day, in the blink of an eye. After a while, miserable people will stop returning.

 

[Disneyhead]

I hear TDO was slammed with complaints starting in Nov. with Jan./Feb. bringing a full on deluge of complaints. They are course correcting by increasing staffing and claiming it's for the Spring Break crowds when actually they are backing off the "right size staffing" theory a bit.

 

[Mad Dog]

I hear TDO was slammed with complaints starting in Nov. with Jan./Feb. bringing a full on deluge of complaints. They are course correcting by increasing staffing and claiming it's for the Spring Break crowds when actually they are backing off the "right size staffing" theory a bit.

That makes sense. WDW lines last week were the best in a long long time.

 

[belloq87]

I hear TDO was slammed with complaints starting in Nov. with Jan./Feb. bringing a full on deluge of complaints. They are course correcting by increasing staffing and claiming it's for the Spring Break crowds when actually they are backing off the "right size staffing" theory a bit.

That's encouraging.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I hear TDO was slammed with complaints starting in Nov. with Jan./Feb. bringing a full on deluge of complaints. They are course correcting by increasing staffing and claiming it's for the Spring Break crowds when actually they are backing off the "right size staffing" theory a bit.

Complaining works as long as it's to Guest Relations. I always keep that in mind.

 

[rhino4evr]

I've been several January's, and this past January was the busiest I've ever been too. There was even a line to go to Tom Sawyer island!

Splash Mountain was down, but still. Nuts. Out of all the parks, the only one with manageable waits was Epcot, but it was also a Thursday. Animal Kingdom was just madness, and im not talking about Pandora.

If you don't go early, don't go at all, is my new motto.

I know several people with families, that have decided NOT to go to Disney, due to all the pre-planning and schedules that need to be made, at least 60 days in advance (Even longer if you want dinner reservations at a popular spot).

I'm honestly surprised locals even go to Disney anymore, as the ability to just "show up" and ride something without having to wait for an obscene amount of time, is becoming more and more difficult.

A close friend of mine decided he wanted to go to Animal Kingdom next week, and asked me for fast pass advice. He just bougght tickets, and is staying offsite. It happens to be a "early magic hour" day as well. My advice? Don't even go. Unless you actually want to wait 3 hours for a 3 minute ride.
Tickets are also peak pricing. At $124 per ticket.

I mean...I know folks have said this before, but I think people are going to start avoiding Disney if this is the way of the future.

 

[bob albert]

Florida residents can buy discount seasonal passes though that make things a much greater value. The weekday select pass is an absolute bargain if your goal is merely to get into the parks a number of times a year. I'm left hoarding non expiring passes using them sparingly for the next 10 years at the rate ticket prices have increased. I wish I could buy the seasonal passes even if it meant no far out fp+ bookings. Even a silver pass is still I think a better value than universal and there are probably locals who think the same.

 

[deathcab4cutie]

went to epcot yesterday every ride had a 40min wait or higher with spaceship earth staying around an hour.

 

[Mad Dog]

went to epcot yesterday every ride had a 40min wait or higher with spaceship earth staying around an hour.

That sure makes for a fun & happy day. :ack:

 

[SeventyOne]

I remember one of the MM+ articles mentioning Disney found that guests who experienced something like 7 experiences a day were the happiest. Lower and their experience fell exponentially and any higher was the gains were not noticeable. That's why DHS operates with four rides and 6 shows "at full price".

Edit: Len says the magic number is 10. Which explains a lot. Transparency: I work as a contractor for TP.

I've often thought Disney bean-counters missed the point entirely there. Not that guests are happy when they ride 10 or more rides--they are happier when crowds are low. Best indicator of low crowds is the ability to experience 10 or more attractions in a single day.

 

[Doug A.]

Speaking of lower waits from my personal experience the lower the waits the happier my wife and I are. There is a lot of times we will skip attractions just because of the wait and will only do FP+. I understand their thought process on right size staffing but they also have to think that lower lines would equal more time in shops, attractions and shows. Which would increase guest satisfaction as well, at least that’s what I think in my opinion.

 

[rhino4evr]

Speaking of lower waits from my personal experience the lower the waits the happier my wife and I are. There is a lot of times we will skip attractions just because of the wait and will only do FP+. I understand their thought process on right size staffing but they also have to think that lower lines would equal more time in shops, attractions and shows. Which would increase guest satisfaction as well, at least that’s what I think in my opinion.

The longest line we waited for in our three day experience was Pirates of the Caribbean, at 50 LONG minutes. I think it was the longest I've ever waiting for that ride. Our daughter was driving my wife and I crazy during this wait. After that experience, we decided we wouldn't wait in anything more than 20 mins.
We got there early, and hit Peter Pan and Haunted House before the crowds, and had fast passes for Thunder, Dwarf, and Space. All of those rides had 2 hours waits at one point during the day. We did not re-ride anything for this reason.

We actually ended up leaving the park earlier than originally expected, didn't stay for fireworks, because the waits and crowds were so bad.

If I didn't have fast passes for the "best" rides, our trip would have been miserable compared. I literally had to wake up on Black Friday at 6am to book fast passes 60 days out, and man I'm glad I did.

 

[Ashhanbre]

The longest line we waited for in our three day experience was Pirates of the Caribbean, at 50 LONG minutes. I think it was the longest I've ever waiting for that ride. Our daughter was driving my wife and I crazy during this wait. After that experience, we decided we wouldn't wait in anything more than 20 mins.
We got there early, and hit Peter Pan and Haunted House before the crowds, and had fast passes for Thunder, Dwarf, and Space. All of those rides had 2 hours waits at one point during the day. We did not re-ride anything for this reason.

We actually ended up leaving the park earlier than originally expected, didn't stay for fireworks, because the waits and crowds were so bad.

If I didn't have fast passes for the "best" rides, our trip would have been miserable compared. I literally had to wake up on Black Friday at 6am to book fast passes 60 days out, and man I'm glad I did.

And its crazy that you had to go to all that trouble. Something is wrong with the way this process works.

 

[rhino4evr]

And its crazy that you had to go to all that trouble. Something is wrong with the way this process works.

exactly...the fact that you have to be planning so far ahead makes me less enthusiastic about returning, and having to do it all over again.