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Tiana's Bayou Adventure (Now Open)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Parkscope Joe
  • Start date Start date Jun 25, 2020
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funkygoonie

funkygoonie

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #181
Wow, that Twitter thread is hard to read, good god. Do they even have mods?

Very happy that while people on this forum (which I have lurker on for a year now) are discussing this civilly, even when we disagree. I absolutely love Disney (even have a Keep Moving Forward tattoo haha) but the hardcore fans are so often an embarrassment.

All that being said... I do wonder how they'll incorporate the mountain aspect into PaTF.
 
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Nick

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #182
The way I see it, us on here for the most part have had plenty of a chance to enjoy Splash. This will be a new way way to experience what will ultimately be the same ride when you go down to the bones of it.

Jessica said:
Wow, that Twitter thread is hard to read, good god. Do they even have mods?

Very happy that while people on this forum (which I have lurker on for a year now) are discussing this civilly, even when we disagree. I absolutely love Disney (even have a Keep Moving Forward tattoo haha) but the hardcore fans are so often an embarrassment.

All that being said... I do wonder how they'll incorporate the mountain aspect into PaTF.
Click to expand...
There's like 2 mods for that site and none of them do anything.
 
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jtsalien

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #183
Brian G. said:
To be clear - you can be sad that the ride is going away while also acknowledging its problematic source material.
Click to expand...

I've been trying really hard to distance my thoughts from my Fandom and nostalgia all day. And I've landed here...

Anyone who doesn't understand what's wrong with this situation here, listen to the Song of the South episodes of the podcast You Must Remember This. It was recommended in the other thread and it's eye opening.

But that has me looking at this new source material very critically. Obviously the films are not comparable in any way in terms of their effect on people. But at the end of the day it's a Musket and Clements Disney film with music by Randy Newman. When I put it through the same level of scrunity as Song of the South, this also seems... A bit shallow?

That sounds harsh. But if Disney really understood the root cause of the problems with the source material, would they be bringing in Randy Newman and Tony Baxter to save the day?

Obviously society has decided that the source material of Splash was unacceptable. So this is ultimately a net positive, but maybe it's still worth exploring.
 
Magic Feather

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #184
I originally posted this on Magic; it seems like they needed to hear it. Figured I'd share it here too.

You should be able to look back on my post history and see that I was pretty strongly against most attraction rethemes: from Frozenstrom to Guardians. Out of the recent string of ride rethemes that Disney has done, I can genuinely say that this one bohers me the least by a pretty sizable margin. Enough to the point where I'm not just tolerating it, but supporting it. So... why? This seems like something that, based on my track record, I should be strongly opposed to. To make this a little easier, I'm going to compare it to another operating attraction at MK with some in poor taste cultural depictions and talk about how that could/should change and how that does and does not apply to Splash Mountain's case.

For the sake of this post, I will be comparing Splash Mountain with the Jungle Cruise. For starters, Jungle Cruise has a more clearly problematic portrayal of African people in the attraction, as seen in the head hunters section, where stereotypical "savage" images are used as a threat to comedic effect. Thankfully, this could easily be corrected by removing this one section and replacing it with another gimmick, maybe bring in the pirañas from DL or something. Regardless, it is one part of a larger attraction.

Splash Mountain is clearly different, in that its racist moments are not at all explicitly found in the attraction; in fact, the attraction even tries to hastily cover up some of the problematic moments ported over from the films. As one of many examples, Brer Rabbit's capture with the beehive honey is intended to replicate his capture with the "tar baby" (the name alone should throw up about five red flags). Or there is the way that Brer Rabbit is meant to evoke the mannerisms and actions of a slave (African-American Vernacular and all) while Brer Fox is effectively a white slave owner of the time. Finally, one of the most unknown offenders is the iconic song itself "Zip-A-Dee-Do-Dah" which is derived from blackface performances intended to actively mock the African-American population. The ties to racism is so intertwined with the attraction that it would be impossible to modify in the same way as Jungle Cruise. For JC you just get a new scene' for Splash Mountain, take away the way the Brers are presented, some of the tropes from the film, and the song, and you barely have a ride left. At that point, if you remove that, there has to be a conscious effort to keep Song of the South involved, which I can guarantee there is next to no desire to do.

As for "why Princess and the Frog?" it's really the only IP that could easily slip into both mountains. Sure it's a stretch in Frontierland, but so was Song of the South. As for the "yes, but why not keep Splash Mountain and give Tiana her own ride?" crowd: Splash Mountain was on borrowed time due to its irremovable ties to racist symbols, and (at least at DLR) there wasn't really a good spot to give Tiana her own ride. Really this kills two birds with one stone (and we don't have to see some god-awful visuals of Splash being demolished Horizons-style.

I know Splash is a sentimental favorite for many, but if we want a better future we need to account for past mistakes. Letting a ride that has inherent ties to racist portrayals of African-Americans would not let that happen.


As kind of a P.S., I've seen a lot of people suggest that Tony Baxter was forced into being involved with this. I have had it confirmed by different people that he wasn't, and that he was asked and he elected to be involved with this.
 
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GAcoaster

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #185
For anyone who really doesn't get why Splash Mountain's back story is problematic, here's a great article from Jason Cochran (theme park writer for Frommer's and history buff from the south) who gives some history. Song of the South was picketed when Walt first released it in 1946, and nothing has changed about its issues.

www.frommers.com

How Splash Mountain Became Disney's Most Problematic Ride | Frommer's

From the very start, Disney's Splash Mountain was soaked with complaints of racism. | Frommer's
www.frommers.com www.frommers.com
 
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GadgetGuru

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #186
I’m most curious about the timeline for all of this. The cynic in me immediately thinks back to what happened to Disney hotels post 9/11 (or maybe post financial crisis?)

Disney closed down a bunch of hotels under the ruse of “refurbishment,” but it was really a cost-cutting measure to take empty hotels out of rotation.

I’m all for a PatF redo of Splash Mountain. I think it’s great for representation, I don’t (yet) share concerns about too much IP in the parks, and I think it could lead to an even better ride. If Disney is going this far to right the ride, it’ll look poorly on them if they value engineer it.

But, I think this is mostly a way for Disney to shut Splash Mountain for a long time to cut costs. Water rides are real expensive. I hope that Disney doesn’t shut down Splash Mountain, put this makeover into limbo, and leave us with an empty building.
 
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Magic Feather

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #187
GadgetGuru said:
I’m most curious about the timeline for all of this. The cynic in me immediately thinks back to what happened to Disney hotels post 9/11 (or maybe post financial crisis?)

Disney closed down a bunch of hotels under the ruse of “refurbishment,” but it was really a cost-cutting measure to take empty hotels out of rotation.

I’m all for a PatF redo of Splash Mountain. I think it’s great for representation, I don’t (yet) share concerns about too much IP in the parks, and I think it could lead to an even better ride. If Disney is going this far to right the ride, it’ll look poorly on them if they value engineer it.

But, I think this is mostly a way for Disney to shut Splash Mountain for a long time to cut costs. Water rides are real expensive. I hope that Disney doesn’t shut down Splash Mountain, put this makeover into limbo, and leave us with an empty building.
Click to expand...
Supposedly this project has gotten a bit of a "Fastpass." I've heard things as crazy as having it open before TRON (which I admittedly doubt). I'd probably expect to see it close either later this year or early next.
 
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Nick

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #188
Magic Feather said:
Supposedly this project has gotten a bit of a "Fastpass." I've heard things as crazy as having it open before TRON (which I admittedly doubt). I'd probably expect to see it close either later this year or early next.
Click to expand...
Since I don't expect Tron until Early 2022 now, I wouldn't be surprised if they opened close together.
 
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P@n!K_Sw1tC#

P@n!K_Sw1tC#

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #189
I think a refresh is a good idea regardless of political views. And on that note... in an age where everything is racist, just remember that you're doing something in your everyday life right now that will be viewed as historically wrong 50 years from now, and you too will be considered evil. So my suggestion is that everybody ease up a bit and try celebrating the things we do right and the progress we've made as a society for a change.
 
PerceptiveCoot

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #190
After all this discussion, I'm finding myself very weirded out by the fact that the only things I really want to stay the same are the DL log designs, the name 'Splash Mountain', the relaxing initial outdoor segment, and that drop in the dark. I'm kind of surprised that those elements feel more essential to me than any of the theming.
 
U

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #191
Millions of black people have had their picture snapped on splash mountain over the years enjoying the attraction. To paint it as some obscene cultural calamity, without context is so opportunistic It’s somehow almost insulting to everyone.

The film it’s based on is undeniably racist, but who would know it’s based In that film if hey didn’t follow the parks? Who”s even watched Song of the South? The film is irrelevant to this ride, unless you actively look for reason to link it.
 
Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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Brian G.

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #192
UAN17 said:
Millions of black people have had their picture snapped on splash mountain over the years enjoying the attraction. To paint it as some obscene cultural calamity, without context is so opportunistic It’s somehow almost insulting to everyone.

The film it’s based on is undeniably racist, but who would know it’s based In that film if hey didn’t follow the parks? Who”s even watched Song of the South? The film is irrelevant to this ride, unless you actively look for reason to link it.
Click to expand...

what are you even trying to insinuate? Because if I’m reading this right, it’s a very stupid defense.
 
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Nick

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #193
UAN17 said:
Millions of black people have had their picture snapped on splash mountain over the years enjoying the attraction. To paint it as some obscene cultural calamity, without context is so opportunistic It’s somehow almost insulting to everyone.

i film it’s based on is undeniably racist, but who would know it’s based In that film if hey didn’t follow the parks? Who”s even watched Song of the South? The film is irrelevant to this ride, unless you actively look for reason to link it.
Click to expand...
"Black people have been on it, it can't be racist" - WHAT? People of all races go to Disney Parks and Splash Mountain is one of the most popular rides. Just because someone rides it and has fun doesn't mean that it's right that in the 80's they decided it was right to even make an attraction based on SotS.

Also, cat's out of the bag now. Way more people have learned about Song of the South just over the past week than Disney would care know it exists in a lifetime. And you can't take out "the racist part" with this ride (as @Magic Feather said) because the whole ride is either based on or has racist undertones.

Like, I don't even fully get what you we trying to say here, but this aint the take.
 
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Teebin

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #194
Does anyone have any sense that this rebuild will encompass resculpting the entire mountain? I suppose if there is no date then we don’t have a clue as to the downtime.
 
Clive

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #195
UAN17 said:
Millions of black people have had their picture snapped on splash mountain over the years enjoying the attraction. To paint it as some obscene cultural calamity, without context is so opportunistic It’s somehow almost insulting to everyone.

The film it’s based on is undeniably racist, but who would know it’s based In that film if hey didn’t follow the parks? Who”s even watched Song of the South? The film is irrelevant to this ride, unless you actively look for reason to link it.
Click to expand...

This is like saying black people have managed to have happy, enjoyable lives in the United States, and therefore the U.S. can't be racist. They're having a good time despite the problematic material.
 
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Cup_Of_Coffee

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #196
UAN17 said:
Millions of black people have had their picture snapped on splash mountain over the years enjoying the attraction. To paint it as some obscene cultural calamity, without context is so opportunistic It’s somehow almost insulting to everyone.

The film it’s based on is undeniably racist, but who would know it’s based In that film if hey didn’t follow the parks? Who”s even watched Song of the South? The film is irrelevant to this ride, unless you actively look for reason to link it.
Click to expand...
Actively looking means that we are recognizing the ride is based off a film.... I don’t think you get it dude.
 
Nick

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #197
Teebin said:
Does anyone have any sense that this rebuild will encompass resculpting the entire mountain? I suppose if there is no date then we don’t have a clue as to the downtime.
Click to expand...
They're adding a boat to the top of the mountain (tree?), which is probably going to be the most extensive part of the work here.
dpbwd019840923572837423840239480.jpg
 
PerceptiveCoot

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  • #198
Nick said:
They're adding a boat to the top of the mountain (tree?), which is probably going to be the most extensive part of the work here.
dpbwd019840923572837423840239480.jpg
Click to expand...
Looks dangerous and unsafe.

I like it.
 
belloq87

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #199
Teebin said:
Does anyone have any sense that this rebuild will encompass resculpting the entire mountain? I suppose if there is no date then we don’t have a clue as to the downtime.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine Chapek would want to allocate the budget that would require.

But in a perfect world, I'd imagine they'd want to try to minimize the mountain-ness of it -- at least in Disneyland -- because, well, there's aren't really mountains in New Orleans.

It's an awkward thematic fit for Frontierland in Magic Kingdom whether they resculpt the mountain or not, so I doubt they'd go to the trouble there.
 
Nick

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  • Jun 25, 2020
  • #200
belloq87 said:
I can't imagine Chapek would want to allocate the budget that would require.

But in a perfect world, I'd imagine they'd want to try to minimize the mountain-ness of it -- at least in Disneyland -- because, well, there's aren't really mountains in New Orleans.

It's an awkward thematic fit for Frontierland in Magic Kingdom whether they resculpt the mountain or not, so I doubt they'd go to the trouble there.
Click to expand...
You seem focused on Chapek. You do understand that Josh is in charge of the parks now, right? I get that Chapek is CEO, but if we are going to keep going back to Chapek for everything, then why weren't we blaming everything Chapek did on Iger for putting Chapek in that position? Iger LOVED the mentality that Chapek brings.
 
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