Attendance Tracker

[Ultranel]

Curiosity got the better of me.

Planned Orlando roller coaster too tall?

'The Orlando city code restricts Universal’s roller coasters to a 200-foot height limit because the park is bordered by a residential neighborhood. SeaWorld falls under county jurisdiction, but Orange County planning administrator John Smogor told commissioners that the park probably would have gotten a larger height allowance simply by asking for it. Its Sky Tower observation deck is 400 feet tall.'

That's so weird, here I am thinking about the Skyplex coaster... well I guess that means it will never be built.

 

[Scott W.]

That's so weird, here I am thinking about the Skyplex coaster... well I guess that means it will never be built.

I think there was a good discussion about this a few months ago, I'll have a look and see if I can find it. IIRC, the Skyplex is outside of city and county limits. I also think the new piece of land that Universal acquired is also outside of the limits.

 

[Mad Dog]

Trust me our governor is also a moron.

And I agree with Maddog that Disney is spinning low attendance. They two things to move crowds around. They raised one day ticket prices and they restructured AP levels. But it was meant to slightly decrease attendance during the summer and holiday periods. It was never meant to do what happened. I don't think what they did really did any of this either. Many people got Gold passes and there is so few one day ticket people that I don't think that mattered either.

Honestly this has everything to do with all the other factors including prices being too high and pricing too many people out of the market in this economy.

Good post.

 

[SeventyOne]

I think there was a good discussion about this a few months ago, I'll have a look and see if I can find it. IIRC, the Skyplex is outside of city and county limits. I also think the new piece of land that Universal acquired is also outside of the limits.

I-Drive, at least that stretch, is county, not city (I used to live off of it).

 

[SeventyOne]

According to the governor, tourists are still showing up to Florida in record numbers.

Gov. Scott: Florida welcomed record number of tourists in first half of 2016 - Orlando Sentinel

Sure there's a ton of asterisks and spin. That said, Universal had a rough late June/early July but seemed to bounce back. Starting to think this downturn is more localized to WDW. Opening water parks to CMs in July and ditching the MK night parade are 2001-level events. Half the staff bailing on a new restaurant tells me everything I need to know about it. Numbers can be nuanced and spun, but you can't overlook things like that.

 

[GAcoaster]

I think there was a good discussion about this a few months ago, I'll have a look and see if I can find it. IIRC, the Skyplex is outside of city and county limits. I also think the new piece of land that Universal acquired is also outside of the limits.

Yes, the new plot is outside of City Limits, but just barely, and could be annexed by the City of Orlando and probably would be. City limits run more or less along Sand Lake Road, but there are exceptions (Tangelo Park is outside the City, while the Airport is inside the City). They seem to pick and choose what they want to be a part of the City or not.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Sure there's a ton of asterisks and spin. That said, Universal had a rough late June/early July but seemed to bounce back. Starting to think this downturn is more localized to WDW. Opening water parks to CMs in July and ditching the MK night parade are 2001-level events. Half the staff bailing on a new restaurant tells me everything I need to know about it. Numbers can be nuanced and spun, but you can't overlook things like that.

$79 tickets w/ AP holder. Slashed hotel rates. Hour adjustments by the day. All this points of a highly volatile market at WDW which is the exact opposite they set up for with MM+.

 

[IzzyB]

$79 tickets w/ AP holder. Slashed hotel rates. Hour adjustments by the day. All this points of a highly volatile market at WDW which is the exact opposite they set up for with MM+.

Agreed. Crowd levels are MK were ok for mid-august I thought. Not overly crowded like mid summer, but not dead either. They have cut back the parade to once a night even on midnight closing days, so that shows staff cuts. I still don't see reduced staff in lines or things closing early so not sure how staffing reduction is effecting capacity of rides and that is still my confusing point in this discussion.

Buzz lightyear was having issues, no sure what. Fast pass was physically longer than standby, standby was posted as 40 and both lines kept coming to a dead stop for several minutes time periods. Took forever to get thru. My husband and older daughter did space mountain with FP and people mover without while all we did was buzz. But outside of that FP lines were not long. Waits were average to heavy with almost everything turning into walk ons to 10 minutes after the parade. Space mountain, Peter Pan, and mine train seemed to be the only ones over 15 minutes. They were between 45 and 60 at that point.

 

[MillenniumDragons]

Things are never as good as the claim them to be. According to unemployment numbers and tourist numbers, things appear to be really great, but if that really was the case, then this thread wouldn't exist. Just my expansive thought on the matter.

 

[Galaxy Defender]

Things are never as good as the claim them to be. According to unemployment numbers and tourist numbers, things appear to be really great, but if that really was the case, then this thread wouldn't exist. Just my expansive thought on the matter.

This is just an Orlando problem. Theme parks across the nation are doing well right now.

 

[MillenniumDragons]

This is just an Orlando problem. Theme parks across the nation are doing well right now.

Precisely! and my fault for not adding in Orlando into the post. And while it's good that the other parks across the nation are doing well, you have 2.1 million people living in a region where those parks and tourism is it's only economic engine.

 

[mitchada04]

It makes sense though, the more "local" parks are up whilst the holiday destination ones are down. If money is tight and prices keep rising, you would visit a local park instead of travelling to Orlando.

It's similar over here. Paultons, a well growing park with great quality is rising and fast, whilst Chessington, operated by Merlin is stagnating and just costs far too much for some families. Drayton Manor is doing the same to Alton Towers. In some cases over here, we're losing out to European parks. Efteling and Europa Park are getting a much higher proportion of Brits than they used to, because it isn't much more expensive sometimes to go abroad for a few days than going to Alton Towers.

Disney wanted less guests and more spend, but I doubt they had cutting hours, shows, general staffing etc on the list too.

Does anyone know how well Legoland Florida does?

 

[Disneyhead]

This is just an Orlando problem. Theme parks across the nation are doing well right now.

Even more localized. Limited to the major theme parks in the Lake Buena Vista area of Florida.

 

[Galaxy Defender]

Even more localized. Limited to the major theme parks in the Lake Buena Vista area of Florida.

I have come around to believe that it is Walt Disney World that is the problem. But to a certain extent they are bringing down Universal and SeaWorld with them.

 

[Scott W.]

I have come around to believe that it is Walt Disney World that is the problem. But to a certain extent they are bringing down Universal and SeaWorld with them.

I think this is a very valid point. I think for the majority of people they can do a trip to Orlando and only do WDW but not just UOR and SW.

 

[Galaxy Defender]

Does anyone know how well Legoland Florida does?

Or Fun spot?

 

[Galaxy Defender]

I think this is a very valid point. I think for the majority of people they can do a trip to Orlando and only do WDW but not just UOR and SW.

I believe this has always been a concern of SeaWorld and Universal. They know that anything that really hurts Walt Disney World attendance will also hurt them.

 

[Disneyhead]

I believe this has always been a concern of SeaWorld and Universal. They know that anything that really hurts Walt Disney World attendance will also hurt them.

"Theme Park Wars" is a catchy moniker, but we are actually watching a bazillion $$$ slow motion chess match between an accepted master and an arrogant upstart. If Universal moves the pricing and appeal pieces right, they'll be major players. Comcast is playing aggressively, and so far, making head way with shear blunt force and a fountain head of cash. And for at least the next 5 years, it looks like they they have absolutely no intentions of letting up. More like doubling down. By 2021, WDW will be back in fighting form with Pandora, the DHS do-over, the continued distruction of Epcot as we know it, and God know what damage they'll do to the MK, and the 50th Celebration too boot. The Dusters won't care, and there will be a plethora of new experiences at WDW (I may even buy a seasonal pass in 2021). By that point UOR will be fully prepared to hold there own.

 

[Frank Drackman]

Agreed. Crowd levels are MK were ok for mid-august I thought. Not overly crowded like mid summer, but not dead either. They have cut back the parade to once a night even on midnight closing days, so that shows staff cuts. I still don't see reduced staff in lines or things closing early so not sure how staffing reduction is effecting capacity of rides and that is still my confusing point in this discussion.

Buzz lightyear was having issues, no sure what. Fast pass was physically longer than standby, standby was posted as 40 and both lines kept coming to a dead stop for several minutes time periods. Took forever to get thru. My husband and older daughter did space mountain with FP and people mover without while all we did was buzz. But outside of that FP lines were not long. Waits were average to heavy with almost everything turning into walk ons to 10 minutes after the parade. Space mountain, Peter Pan, and mine train seemed to be the only ones over 15 minutes. They were between 45 and 60 at that point.

I really have not been to WDW in about four years, so I cannot comment on how it is these days. But when I did go somewhat often, I did notice that sometimes things ran more efficiently during crowed times than they did during the slow season.

But ride capacity (and staffing) did change with the seasons. Back before Space mountain had a dedicated fast pass side, only one track would run for the first few hours in the slower seasons.

If you pay attention to the load/unload at splash mountain, sometimes each queue has three lanes on each queue, others it's two...kind of neat to me how they can add/remove the railings in that area.

You can get an idea of how many boats they are running on Small World and Pirates based on how far back into the last scene or two you hit traffic waiting to get to unload.

I assume folks are saying they've been running rides that they can adjust at lower capacity...coaster can run fewer trains...and I assume you can run with a smaller staff when you reduce the ride capacity.

Anyway, I think Orlando is seeing a slow down. I noticed UNI has started offering FL a $75 dinning credit on a two night vacation package (might only be at SF). But I still think UNI is bringing more in by having more rooms this year.

 

[SeventyOne]

$79 tickets w/ AP holder.

Yeah, a $79 hopper is telling. Previous locals deal you had to buy 3 days, no hopping. No one wants too drop $80 on any WDW park but MK (or Food & Wine Park (TM)).