CineSational: A Symphonic Spectacular

[OrlandoGuy]

It's mostly because Universal's decisions, like this one, causes the results to be self fulfilling. They never give any of these shows, and late evening closings, a chance to be impregnated in guests minds/habits. That Six Flags analogy might have made some sense when Universal only had three hotels, but it makes very poor business sense with all the on site hotels filled with guests that are focused to on site activities.

And, keep in mind, March, as I said above, is prime tourist season. No reason not to run the shows in March with the Spring Break crowds.

To you or I as huge fans, it doesn’t make sense.

To an exec who’s in the cable business sitting in Philadelphia seeing revenue come in hand over fist, the operation as is makes a lot of sense.

And I don’t mean to write this off as the “well it’s a business and they gotta make money” that we all hate as a scapegoat when the parks make tough decisions. I mean it more as a fundamental difference in the way the Universal parks are run/viewed compared to Disney.

 

[TheGentTrent]

Real talk: Is this a chicken or the egg scenario for Universal?

Let's face it. There is never an evening where the nightshows at Disney aren't crowded because the expectation is that there is always one available (which is part of the reason Animal Kingdom has again struggled retaining people without Rivers of Light). Universal guests don't have that same mindset. A lot of people leave around dinnertime regardless of whether Cinesational is playing or not. So is it really worth it for Universal to pay to keep the parks staffed for a couple of extra hours so they can do the show every night when the lines for most rides are around 15 minutes or less?

 

[Jake S]

Real talk: Is this a chicken or the egg scenario for Universal?

Kind of, yeah. I don't think it's possible for Universal to achieve the same level of affinity people have for Disney writ large, and I suspect Universal feels the same way. That's not to say there aren't big fans (we're on the Inside Universal forum, after all), but it is qualitatively different than how people think about Disney, Disneyland and Disney World.

Do I wish that Universal was more ambitious in its competition with Disney? Yes. Do I wish they more aggressively to win the hearts and minds of would-be theme park goers? Sure. But ultimately, Universal is choosing a different lane and it's clearly working for them. That's no bad thing.

I do think all this is why it's a bit silly to see people engage in wish casting about Universal "taking down the mouse" or "eating Disney's lunch." Universal isn't interested in that, really, and it shows in how they operate their parks.

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that I prefer the Disney experience to the Universal experience despite my immense frustrations with the ways Disney is *censored* up its product. But I do really appreciate the many ways Universal is trying to do its own thing, even when that doesn't align with what I want.

 

[DOOMBOT]

I apparently have many thoughts on this discussion, as I have written an entire essay about it tonight. I'm going to sit on it until morning and see if I still stand by it or want to edit / cut it down, instead of just dropping the whole thing here like a misguided drunk text haha.

The preemptive TLDR of it is, I firmly disagree with the notion that UDX isn't trying to cement itself as an equivalent to Disney in the theme park space, whether that is actually achievable for them or not. The main exception being USF itself, which is (often frustratingly) run more like a local non-theme park. I believe that is based primarily on opportunity cost; commiting limited resources and attention towards a DCA 2.0-style facelift for one park as opposed to further improvements towards the already solid and nearly world-class other 2/3rds of the resort.

 

[Mad Dog]

If those arguments are the case, why even run a night show at all. Heck they run the night show in the slow attendance months of January and August, but not during spring break in March. They run it in conjunction with Holiday Parades in mid November through Christmas, but not Mardi Gras Parades. C'mon guys, that Comcast home based decisions 'business excuse' doesn't hold ground. At the same time they cut Epic hours by one hour, during two busier months than the slow Jan. month. Sounds more like the local Orlando Execs. doing the same cost cutting stuff they were doing like crazy before Epic opened. Gotta protect those bonuses.

I just don't buy those 'blame it on Comcast home office' excuses. Orlando Execs. have a certain mindset M.O. that pops up often. This fits that local decision pattern, just like forced mobile ordering, no paper maps (Disney has them), limited times they run the new Parade, closing IOA early so often, Tapu Tapu gone, live entertainment theaters sitting empty, limited showings of Potter night time shows, not having enough maintenance crews to service all the Epic breakdowns, short staffing Epic when it opened, etc.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

If those arguments are the case, why even run a night show at all. Heck they run the night show in the slow attendance months of January and August, but not during spring break in March. They run it in conjunction with Holiday Parades in mid November through Christmas, but not Mardi Gras Parades. C'mon guys, that Comcast home based decisions 'business excuse' doesn't hold ground. At the same time they cut Epic hours by one hour, during two busier months than the slow Jan. month. Sounds more like the local Orlando Execs. doing the same cost cutting stuff they were doing like crazy before Epic opened. Gotta protect those bonuses.

I just don't buy those 'blame it on Comcast home office' excuses. Orlando Execs. have a certain mindset M.O. that pops up often. This fits that local decision pattern, just like forced mobile ordering, no paper maps (Disney has them), limited times they run the new Parade, closing IOA early so often, Tapu Tapu gone, live entertainment theaters sitting empty, limited showings of Potter night time shows, not having enough maintenance crews to service all the Epic breakdowns, short staffing Epic when it opened, etc.

I just don’t think the people running Comcast are that hands on. I imagine the decisions go something like this…

-UO: “we want to develop a nighttime show. It’ll cost x% of our allocated budget coming out of last year.”
-Comcast: “sure, you’re profitable do what you gotta do.”

-UO: “we’d like to keep the park open a few hours later so we can show off our show some more.”
-Comcast: “the park hours/OpEx are already budgeted for the year. what’s the ROI argument for this?”
-UO: “well, most of our restaurants will be closed already and the majority of our guests this time of year are in town for hhn/mardi gras/grinchmas…but maybe a 3% incremental sales conversion on merch for the handful of guests that can fit in Central Park while the show is on?”
-Comcast: “nah, we good.”

 

[Brian G.]

Good grief… sometimes it’s just as simple as “Mardi Gras is enough nighttime entertainment.”

I’m not saying it’s excusable or fine, but y’all go to great lengths creating these crazy narratives.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

For the record, I don’t see any great lengths being taken or any crazy narratives being made. @Mad Dog, for my money you’re one of the more intelligent and business savvy posters here and I always enjoy reading your perspectives and learning from you while talking parks with you (insert salute emoji here).

 

[Mad Dog]

For the record, I don’t see any great lengths being taken or any crazy narratives being made. @Mad Dog, for my money you’re one of the more intelligent and business savvy posters here and I always enjoy reading your perspectives and learning from you while talking parks with you (insert salute emoji here).

Thank you very much. Yes, I always try to look at things from a business and guest perspective. I've had decades in leadership positions on both sides of the equation, business and labor. Being around many years in those circles may not necessarily bring wisdom, but it helps remove the curtain that often hides decision making.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

If Universal doesn't believe that nighttime spectaculars in their parks don't drive nighttime attendance... why did they invest in replacing the infrastructure for CineSational? Why are they investing in a nighttime show for Epic Universe?

Why does UOR run CineSational during the Holiday season with a Holiday parade... but not Mardi Gras? Is there something we don't know? Is Mardi Gras more expensive to operate? Sure, don't run it on concert nights but what about the other 6 nights in a week?


Nighttime shows, in my opinion, are part of the theme park experience (Disney or not)... Universal struggled to figure it out in the past, but they now have a Disney-level (I'd argue better than some) nighttime show. They should be proud to display it on a more consistent basis.

 

[Alicia]

Because Mardi Gras has a parade.

For USF it seems one entertainment offering per night and that’s either parade or lagoon show, but not both.

It’s hard to compare to MK, but it’s wild to think Disney runs two to three parades a day AND. Nighttime show. But it is VERY much a part of their branding to have fireworks every night.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Because Mardi Gras has a parade.

Holidays has a parade as well?

 

[Mad Dog]

Because Mardi Gras has a parade.

For USF it seems one entertainment offering per night and that’s either parade or lagoon show, but not both.

It’s hard to compare to MK, but it’s wild to think Disney runs two to three parades a day AND. Nighttime show. But it is VERY much a part of their branding to have fireworks every night.

But, the Holidays has a night parade also, Macy's. And they ran CineSational this year, even nights where closings were around 8:00 PM. ....Universal needs to show faith and 'patience' building evening crowds. (Holidays: Parade often started 2 hours before closing. Mardi Gras: Parade generally starts 2 hours before closing) I believe the Macy's Parade is longer than the Mardi Gras Parade........I attended 4 Cine shows during my Nov. vacation. Every show was 'packed' with spectators.

 

[Brian G.]

Holidays has a parade as well?

But, the Holidays has a night parade also, Macy's. And they ran CineSational this year, even nights where closings were around 8:00 PM. ....Universal needs to show faith and 'patience' building evening crowds.

(Forgive the brevity as I’m in park and on my cell)

It’s timing. Holidays are all-day with a 5:30 parade and late closings. Mardi Gras is afternoon-heavy, a 7pm parade with 8–9pm closes. You’d go straight from parade to lagoon, basically. Also, daylight savings time plays a bit of a factor.

But also, Universal doesn’t want guests stuck waiting 3-4 hours instead of spending at booths.

 

[Mad Dog]

(Forgive the brevity as I’m in park and on my cell)

It’s timing. Holidays are all-day with a 5:30 parade and late closings. Mardi Gras is afternoon-heavy, a 7pm parade with 8–9pm closes. You’d go straight from parade to lagoon, basically. Also, daylight savings time plays a bit of a factor.

But also, Universal doesn’t want guests stuck waiting 3-4 hours instead of spending at booths.

Most Mardi Gras days are 9:00 closings this year. Even though the Macy's Parade advertises 5:30 PM, generally it didn't start until right about 6:00 PM Nov. since that was when the full darkness hit in November. Mardi Gras parade starts at 5:00 when the park closes at 7:00 PM........But, I'll buy the booth excuse. Universal tends toward cheap.

 

[Brian G.]

Most Mardi Gras days are 9:00 closings this year. Even though the Macy's Parade advertises 5:30 PM, generally it didn't start until right about 6:00 PM Nov. since that was when the full darkness hit in November. Mardi Gras parade starts at 5:00 when the park closes at 7:00 PM........But, I'll buy the booth excuse. Universal tends toward cheap.

The parade started at 5:30 but may have gotten to your waiting spot around 6 if you were close to NY.

It takes about 45-60 avg for any parade to make the loop, outside of unforeseen circumstances.

Outside of 6 nights, the Mardi Gras parade starts at 7. If the park closes at 9, that only leaves an hour of playtime. If you have CineSational at 8:30, you’re basically creating a traffic rush to go from parade viewing to the lagoon all within a 30 min span.

Besides the guest spending, which obv is very important to UO, it can create a possible ops nightmare.

During this season, which is usually a slower time compared to the Holidays, they want you focused on the Mardi Gras stuff.

 

[Mad Dog]

The parade started at 5:30 but may have gotten to your waiting spot around 6 if you were close to NY.

It takes about 45-60 avg for any parade to make the loop, outside of unforeseen circumstances.

Outside of 6 nights, the Mardi Gras parade starts at 7. If the park closes at 9, that only leaves an hour of playtime. If you have CineSational at 8:30, you’re basically creating a traffic rush to go from parade viewing to the lagoon all within a 30 min span.

Besides the guest spending, which obv is very important to UO, it can create a possible ops nightmare.

During this season, which is usually a slower time compared to the Holidays, they want you focused on the Mardi Gras stuff.

One point. CineSational during November started at closing. So, if closing was at 8:00, it started at 8:00, not 7:30. Not to nitpick, but we watched the parade from Hollywood also. It never started until it actually got completely dark, not at 5:30. My sore butt sitting so long could attest to that . I fully understand your points. But, I'm a firm believer that if you want to have night time crowds like WDW has, you have to make a full commitment. And, the very superb CineSational show is a prime way to keep people in the park, even past closing. WDW does a huge merchandise volume in the last hour of, and the hour past closing. ......All this just my personal opinion, of course. .....But as a very frequent vacationer on site, I feel shortchanged when Universal makes decisions like this. WDW is on another planet compared to Universal when you consider evenings in the park. WDW builds to a night time climax. Universal says good night, leave us already

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Outside of 6 nights, the Mardi Gras parade starts at 7. If the park closes at 9, that only leaves an hour of playtime. If you have CineSational at 8:30, you’re basically creating a traffic rush to go from parade viewing to the lagoon all within a 30 min span.

Most often, the operating procedure has been to run the show at park close. This time last year, they were operating it at park close. It wasn't until recently (and a few nights in Dec 2024) they started displaying it 30-mins prior to park close.

In 2019 and 2021 they did run Cinematic Celebration during the month of March. So it's been done before...

 

[Brian G.]

Most often, the operating procedure has been to run the show at park close. This time last year, they were operating it at park close. It wasn't until recently (and a few nights in Dec 2024) they started displaying it 30-mins prior to park close.

In 2019 and 2021 they did run Cinematic Celebration during the month of March. So it's been done before...

I understand all that. I was merely using 8:30 as an example.

You also provided two examples that are the exception: 2019 was a time before the expanded focus food booths and 2021 didn’t have the parade at all because we were still under Covid protocols.

 

[Mad Dog]

Just my opinion again....Bottom Line......A Night Show of Cine's quality, like the high quality WDW night shows, should be the 'Standard'
on every single day of the year, except for early day closings and a 'substitute' night show for HHN. ....That's my last word since this is becoming a bit tedious. Thanks to everyone for being so patient listening to this exchange of opinions/ideas...