Dear Evan Hansen

[knoxmyers]

My daughter and her friends loved this show, "For Forever" was one of her nightly alarms, we heard it constantly. I don't really want to go into too much personal detail, but this musical hit every right note with all of them. Anxiety and depression are a greater problem than realized or addressed and this just throws the viewer right in the middle of it, it spoke to its target audience so well.

There are a string of YA stories with a similar "tragic" theme (aren't they all, ha) that were very popular around this time, if I recall correctly most dealt with the main character lying throughout most of the story. Several of these have now been made into Netflix movies, with some varying degree of them being the hero in the end.

Not sure it will work as a movie though, musicals are more intimate by nature, this story may need that to succeed.

 

[darkridelover]

I disagree and you will not change my opinion on that.

However, I DO think that Dear Evan Hansen is something that may actually translate to the screen better than the stage as the film version will be able to dive into the nuances a bit more. The show also feels like it was almost made to be a movie, so that helps.

How do you disagree? You must not have watch the final scene in a while. No one is celebrated. Literally watch it. It's on youtube.

 

[shiekra38]

It seems like this movie has the same flaw that the later episodes of Glee had

Bring up and important topic, put in somewhat relevant songs to bolster the topic

Then forget about it and move on like nothing happened. No sense of consequence or weight.

Again, if you're going to use something like mental health in your story, awesome!

But you have a responsibility to say something with it or it's just padding for your lazy writing

I get the power that representation has, simply being seen, but that can't always be where it stops

I'm speaking to something I haven't watched, but from what I'm reading, that's what I'm seeing

 

[Nick]

How do you disagree? You must not have watch the final scene in a while. No one is celebrated. Literally watch it. It's on youtube.

It's not even about some actual grand "celebration" in the sense where there's a ticker-tape parade for him, it's more in how it's handled overall. I get that that Evan is portrayed as having anxiety and on the spectrum. But kids in high school don't care about that stuff when someone does something completely scummy. They would give their most raw reaction and I feel like Evan was handled with kid gloves in the reactions here. He never faces too much shame, overall. Yes he held guilt throughout, but that's his choice and his lie.

There's certainly a bit more nuance to it, yes, but i'm just telling you why I feel the way I feel. Again, my opinion is not changing on the theatrical version. I have hope the film version will handle the overall nuance better, but that's to be seen.

 

[Legacy]

I'm sorry, no one is celebrated in this show.

Spoiler: Evan loses....

Evan loses everything except his mom, who is the moral compass of the show. There is a resolve at the end of the show because theater shows generally work when there is a resolve. But it doesn't come across as anyone saying Evan is a good person. And he isn't the only one making terrible decisions in the show. Evan obviously being on the spectrum compounds the story and makes it rich and complex.

Evan at the end when he's told "Everyone needed it" he says, "THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT OK."

Spoiler

We don’t see him lose “everything.” We see him lose the Murphys (with little dramatic fanfare). Zoe literally thanks him for lying to her (and romancing her under false pretenses). And we never see him publicly confess to the lies, so we are left to assume he never does. That’s especially so because we see The Conner Project succeed (a potentially illegal fundraising project because it’s launched on a lie that would be investigated in real life—literally the letters would be considered forgeries). The implication behind all that is he still has the popularity that came from his internet fame. If we don’t see public contrition, we assume it doesn’t happen. And Zoe’s attitude in the end doesn’t help us feel like Evan has really been punished at all.

I completely understand the emotional power of a “lied to be something I’m not” story, especially to teens. The issue is that, despite all the trappings of that within this show, Evan doesn’t merely “lie.” He runs a complicated and successful grift that takes advantage of people emotionally, romantically, and financially. Again, there’s a song where he literally forges evidence that he and Conner were friends. And instead of a public comeuppance, it’s all painted with a “growing up is hard” brush. The show has no moral barometer except “Evan is a good guy” despite evidence to the contrary because the lie, very early on, moves beyond an innocent mistake. Evan doesn’t even consider confessing until Alana starts call him out on it.

 

[quinnmac000]

Not every crime is punished in the way we expect it to get punished.

I'm going to disagree that the musical makes Evan seem like a good guy. He is an emotional confused teenager with suicidal tendencies already present. If you know someone suffering mental difficulties which were already present from the beginning and decide to throw the book and destroy them, you have contributed to any negative response they commit including suicide.

Evan lost everyone but his mom. Before he had his mom and Jared. But Jared is gone, his only real friend And yea Zoe could spend her days ticked off but being ticked off and angry hurts you way more than the other person.

 

[Legacy]

And yea Zoe could spend her days ticked off but being ticked off and angry hurts you way more than the other person.

Evan lied about a friendship with her recently dead brother in order to be accepted into a surrogate family and becomes romantically involved with her (which may have included sex depending on your read of the show). She is the victim of a gross manipulation. I don’t know a single person who could realistically shrug that off with, “Thanks, that was cathartic.”

 

[PlatinumFate]

I'm more upset about it portraying people with mental illness as manipulative. It just feels like it pushes the general population's understanding of mental health back, since now people who watched the musical will think that those they know with anxiety/depression/ASD/etc aren't trustworthy. Its harmful to the fight for the normalization of mental health. Those with mental illnesses are boiled down to either "misunderstood soft beans who can be fixed by the power of friendship" or "creeps that can't be trusted" due to our portrayal in the media. It's true that it could be helpful to those just now starting their struggle with mental illness since they will feel recognized and validated, but as they grow and start to notice the stigma that follows them around due to who they are, the portrayals become more frustrating than validating. It makes us feel like we're confined to fit either one of the two stereotypes instead of being our own unique person.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

God this is the nerdiest thread on the forums right now and I am HERE for it.

 

[Tristan]

Still not over the fact that Evan Hansen is a grown-ass man trying to play a high schooler.

 

[shiekra38]

Still not over the fact that Evan Hansen is a grown-ass man trying to play a high schooler.

Yeah there's teenagers like Gaten Matarazzo that seem like they would fit the part fine

 

[Nick]

Still not over the fact that Evan Hansen is a grown-ass man trying to play a high schooler.

He looks both 17 and 40 at the same time depending on the shot. He also looks like Jesse Eissenberg in The Social Network and Michael Cera (in general).

 

[rageofthegods]

Michael Cera

Now that would've been great casting for Evan!

 

[Nick]

Now that would've been great casting for Evan!

He's even older! (although somehow still looks like he's 16). Of course he can't sing as far as I know so it's a mute point - he has done theater, but no musicals.

 

[Allison]

Still not over the fact that Evan Hansen is a grown-ass man trying to play a high schooler.

It’s Grease-esque.



Between the absurd, insulting plot AND the lead actor looking well above a teenage boy, they’re fooling no one with this movie!

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

All I'll say is I definitely believe that this was first made in 2015.

 

[HalfGlass]

It seems like the division on this play comes down to “do you find Evan to be sympathetic?”

Spoiler

I don’t think everything he does in the play is wrong, some things come from a place of crippling social anxiety. He’s also a teen who has the situation thrust on him. He wasn’t planning on lying to the parents about how he was Connor’s friend, but he felt like he would break their heart in that moment if he told the truth and it steamrolled into a lie. Compare that to Alana who makes the website in an effort to actively get more attention and become popular.

Yes a lie he should have owned up to sooner than he did. But this is from the perspective of a kid who was never noticed by anyone and was begging to have any sort of connection

I never wanted to see Evan punished for what he did because he made a mistake with some selfish intentions and some out of genuine concern. You never see him relishing or basking in the popularity, he constantly feels compelled to say something and never has the courage to do so as he sees the lie helps the parents, then other students and eventually the world cope with depression.

I know everyone who saw the play has different feelings about him at the end - it’s truly up to your personal outlook on what unfolded and what Evan should be held accountable for. But, as someone who has had horrendous bouts of depression and anxiety, I found his story to be one of error, but one where I could never see him making a mistake like this again after the pain he saw it cause.

 

[darkridelover]

Evan lied about a friendship with her recently dead brother in order to be accepted into a surrogate family and becomes romantically involved with her (which may have included sex depending on your read of the show). She is the victim of a gross manipulation. I don’t know a single person who could realistically shrug that off with, “Thanks, that was cathartic.”

You ever been in a bad relationship that ends in a terrible break up but then a year later after the dust settled your friendly to each other. It's kinda like that.

Spoiler: But in the end...

But in the end, Evan says, "That doesn't make it right". There is nothing in the script that excuses anything. Not Evan for his actions. Or Connors parents for making a teenager on the spectrum help them through their grief without once asking him if he's ok. The moral of the show is, Evan's Mom is there for him even when he makes huge mistakes.

I'm more upset about it portraying people with mental illness as manipulative. It just feels like it pushes the general population's understanding of mental health back, since now people who watched the musical will think that those they know with anxiety/depression/ASD/etc aren't trustworthy. Its harmful to the fight for the normalization of mental health. Those with mental illnesses are boiled down to either "misunderstood soft beans who can be fixed by the power of friendship" or "creeps that can't be trusted" due to our portrayal in the media. It's true that it could be helpful to those just now starting their struggle with mental illness since they will feel recognized and validated, but as they grow and start to notice the stigma that follows them around due to who they are, the portrayals become more frustrating than validating. It makes us feel like we're confined to fit either one of the two stereotypes instead of being our own unique person.

The show doesn't portray that. And not every story needs to portray people in the best light. Sometimes complicated situations are the better story to tell. The argument you made here sounds an a lot like, violent video games are going to make people violent. People aren't walking out of the show thinking people with mental illnesses are manipulative. The story is way more nuanced than that.

 

[Allison]

Reminder not to double post.

 

[Legacy]

You ever been in a bad relationship that ends in a terrible break up but then a year later after the dust settled your friendly to each other. It's kinda like that.

Spoiler: But in the end...

But in the end, Evan says, "That doesn't make it right". There is nothing in the script that excuses anything. Not Evan for his actions. Or Connors parents for making a teenager on the spectrum help them through their grief without once asking him if he's ok. The moral of the show is, Evan's Mom is there for him even when he makes huge mistakes.

I’ve been through bad breakups, but never because the very foundation of the relationship is because I told them I was something that I wasn’t. I’ve never had an ex say, “Hey, remember how you said you were best friends with my dead brother when you barely knew each other and we had sex? Good times, friend.” So, no, it’s nothing like that.

I think the broader problem is that the show focuses entirely on Evan. He is the “hero” so everything is viewed and told from that context. But if you change the framing to the Murphys (and even moreso, Zoe), what Evan does to them over weeks and months is downright monstrous. He lets himself be inserted into their lives when they were all at their emotional lowest under false pretenses (“misunderstanding” aside) so he can feel affection and friendship he doesn’t otherwise have. And while I can sympathize for being lonely and awkward, that’s not justification for such manipulation. Because spectrum-coded or not, Evan continuously CHOOSES to continue the lie for entirely selfish reasons. Once he creates fake letters to “prove” his friendship, it shifts from a simple lie into a con. So, frankly, I really don’t care how Evan feels about the whole thing at that point.