Disney cracking down on 3rd party tour guides

[SeventyOne]

Interesting article. Not the first time this has happened, seems to be a cyclical thing. Buried in the article but it also shows how even a little DAS abuse can throw off park ops--something perhaps HHN should note.

I will say this: as someone who follows Orlando theme parks pretty closely and knows (or at least knew) some of the major early players in this field, I didn't recognize a single company named. Not my niche for sure, but are they that underground or are they that small-time?

MSN

 

[HandsomePete]

Not underground at all - literally the #1 rated tour in Orlando on TripAdvisor is a Disney VIP Tour business. There’s absolutely no mystery as to how they work either - nobody quoted for a national article is going to say “yeah, there’s this thing called DAS and you can just get return times and bring your group back to walk onto the rides.”

The problem they have is that they tell guests to leave five star reviews around the internet to drive business - almost all of which have names and some of which just say the quiet part out loud. Read this review and tell me whether it’s legit or not: A must! Believe the hype, it is the only way to experience the parks

 

[TheCodeMan95]

I read through and I'm still not quite understanding how a 3rd party tour would even operate? It's not like they're able to "curate an experience" like actual Disney tours can.

 

[Clive]

I remember when Jim Hill got asked to leave for running tours in the parks - though as I recall, he did not engage in any disability pass abuse and was simply offering stories and guidance. The trouble started when guests who signed up for an official Disney tour ended up on his by mistake.

I hate to say it, but all of these tour operators sound like grifters. Disney has no reason to allow them to operate on property. Travel planning with remote reservation assistance? Sure, that's fair game. But whatever this is? It's about time it stopped.

I fear a reckoning is coming with the disability pass abuse, and it'll no doubt be ugly. Folks who may not realize they're part of the problem are likely going to get shut out.

 

[Jerroddragon]

If they aren't abusing the pass then I have no issue with unofficial tour guides

 

[HandsomePete]

I read through and I'm still not quite understanding how a 3rd party tour would even operate? It's not like they're able to "curate an experience" like actual Disney tours can.

What do you mean by curate an experience? A Disney VIP Tour is just a driver and access to the FastPass queue.

For it to make a little more sense, you have to start with the fact that a $250/hour tour (still a HUGE discount over an official tour) is going to generate somewhere around $2,000 per tour for easy math. To extrapolate that out, working five days a week would net you around $500k per year. And that’s excluding tips, which even at 5% would be another $25k likely slipped to you in cash that Uncle Sam would never know about. Sure, you’d have costs like an annual pass and meals but those are now a business expenses (tax deduction!) and effectively cost you 70-ish percent of the purchase price. Even if you spend $100 on food per work day that's $25k, so it's really hard to see a scenario where you're cutting more than $100K into your revenue - so congrats on your $400k a year job. Also don't forget to register as a travel agent, so you can skim a little bit more as you're helping people with tickets, hotels, etc.

The underlying takeaway here is that the dollars at play are massive, which means you can hire a lot of help to pull it off. Need someone saving parade spots? Hire a runner for $20/hour as their side job a few days a week. Don't want to give the tours yourself? Hire guides (heck, even former official tour guides!) for $15/hour as their side job a few days a week because they know they'll get a hundo or two at the end of the day. Need to make plans for someone? Have them add you as a friend in the app. It takes juggling, but when the payoff is so big you can afford to put a lot of effort and resources into pulling it off.

I hate to say it, but all of these tour operators sound like grifters.

Exactly. It would not surprise me if the "tour that helps curate experiences for disabled visitors" is essentially just charging for DAS to guests who would be perfectly entitled to it but don't know it exists because it's a first visit or they haven't been in years.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

What do you mean by curate an experience? A Disney VIP Tour is just a driver and access to the FastPass queue.

Yes, the FastPass queue is moreso what I was referring to.

I mean, people don't need a guide to acquire the DAS pass - so I think there's just something here I'm not quite understanding.

 

[GAcoaster]

The tour guides for hire know how to game the system with DAS passes and other ways of skirting the system.

The fact these people are being tresspassed and intercepted while on lines to enter the parks leads me to believe Disney is using facial recognition (even if they're not saying it) to spot these people who are problematic.

 

[HandsomePete]

The fact these people are being tresspassed and intercepted while on lines to enter the parks leads me to believe Disney is using facial recognition (even if they're not saying it) to spot these people who are problematic.

There’s nothing in that article that says they’re being pulled out of lines to enter the park. These people are only facially recognized in the sense that they’re at the parks so much that CMs at ride entrances recognize them from seeing them over and over and over again.

I think people vastly overrate the ability of a private company to maintain - and be able to act upon - a massive surveillance network that *actually* tracks people. Facial recognition queries known databases of headshots, like mugshots or (in Las Vegas) banned individuals. Here they just see the data in the system over time and flag a pass or DAS until it catches up with them eventually.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Not underground at all - literally the #1 rated tour in Orlando on TripAdvisor is a Disney VIP Tour business. There’s absolutely no mystery as to how they work either - nobody quoted for a national article is going to say “yeah, there’s this thing called DAS and you can just get return times and bring your group back to walk onto the rides.”

The problem they have is that they tell guests to leave five star reviews around the internet to drive business - almost all of which have names and some of which just say the quiet part out loud. Read this review and tell me whether it’s legit or not: A must! Believe the hype, it is the only way to experience the parks

Sounds like either DAS abuse or using a TM to get in (probably some incentives involved).

Also, if I were booking a VIP tour, I do not want to wake up at 7AM to rope drop Hagrid if I knew I had express.

 

[GAcoaster]

There’s nothing in that article that says they’re being pulled out of lines to enter the park. These people are only facially recognized in the sense that they’re at the parks so much that CMs at ride entrances recognize them from seeing them over and over and over again.

I think people vastly overrate the ability of a private company to maintain - and be able to act upon - a massive surveillance network that *actually* tracks people. Facial recognition queries known databases of headshots, like mugshots or (in Las Vegas) banned individuals. Here they just see the data in the system over time and flag a pass or DAS until it catches up with them eventually.

One of the articles specifically said they were waiting in line to enter when the guide was pulled out of line by a manager and Orange County PD, There have been several cases of people who were resellers and other people who were tresspassed being intercepted as they were on line for park entry.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

One of the articles specifically said they were waiting in line to enter when the guide was pulled out of line by a manager and Orange County PD, There have been several cases of people who were resellers and other people who were tresspassed being intercepted as they were on line for park entry.

Yup - the Insider article mentioned it, whether it is completely accurate who knows? I bet they just scanned into the park before getting the dreaded blue light at the touchpoints before a manager approached and realized why they were being flagged down.

 

[HandsomePete]

I bet they just scanned into the park before getting the dreaded blue light at the touchpoints before a manager approached and realized why they were being flagged down.

Yep.

I’ll just say it - I know of people who track these things and it’s not facial recognition.

 

[Clive]

Yep.

I’ll just say it - I know of people who track these things and it’s not facial recognition.

Park reservations are still a thing! They can see when the target is coming and just keep an eye out for them at the turnstiles.