Disney's Current Approach to Theme Parks

[Ultranel]

I didn't say adding a new park tomorrow

I said that the numbers given were talking about somewhere around 2030-40. That gives them plenty of time to incest a lot in their current parks, still. And make no mistake, Epcot, DHS and DAK all NEED big investment and expansions still.

I have to say that's a huge gap... That's the timeframe it took to build 4 parks "36 yrs".

 

[Nick]

I have to say that's a huge gap... That's the timeframe it took to build 4 parks "36 yrs".

Hmm?

 

[Ultranel]

Hmm?

Actually that was an awful math. more like 27yrs to build 4 parks. MK71 to DAK98. If we start counting years from 98 to a possible opening around 2030 for the 5th, then it is a huge gap, more years than it took to build most of WDW.

 

[Nick]

Actually that was an awful math. more like 27yrs to build 4 parks. MK71 to DAK98. If we start counting years from 98 to a possible opening around 2030 for the 5th, then it is a huge gap, more years than it took to build most of WDW.

I would expect much later than 2030, closer to 2040, as they need to keep expanding out their current non-MK parks.

But to restate the reason we're talking about this so people don't think this is some crazy 5th gate thing, due to the rate Disney is adding DVC and hotel rooms in general, a fifth gate could be necessary within the next few decades. ParentsOf4 did math on this over on Magic to further make this point.

 

[Orlandofan12]

I would expect much later than 2030, closer to 2040, as they need to keep expanding out their current non-MK parks.

But to restate the reason we're talking about this so people don't think this is some crazy 5th gate thing, due to the rate Disney is adding DVC and hotel rooms in general, a fifth gate could be necessary within the next few decades. ParentsOf4 did math on this over on Magic to further make this point.

Global Development has been running the numbers on another gate recently. I think we may see a fifth gate sooner than you might think. A lot is planned before that happens, but like I've said previously the announcements at D23 2017 were just the tip of the iceberg for what's to come. An announcement of another gate around 2025 is not out of the question.

 

[shiekra38]

Global Development has been running the numbers on another gate recently. I think we may see a fifth gate sooner than you might think. A lot is planned before that happens, but like I've said previously the announcements at D23 2017 were just the tip of the iceberg for what's to come. An announcement of another gate around 2025 is not out of the question.

Well, in Orlando, it seems Universal is eating more and more "Disney days"...I imagine that's their reasoning

I certainly think it's easier to flesh out your current parks to the point where they need more time to explore...But I'm no park planner

 

[natespf]

An announcement of another gate around 2025 is not out of the question.

A 5th gate announcement in 2025 does line up with an opening in 2040 - 2050

 

[Nick]

Well, in Orlando, it seems Universal is eating more and more "Disney days"...I imagine that's their reasoning

I certainly think it's easier to flesh out your current parks to the point where they need more time to explore...But I'm no park planner

It's also cheaper to expand current parks. Building an entire new park not only is a multi-billion dollar commitment - something that would be better thrown at the current parks anyway - but it's more CMs, infrastructure, electricity, etc, etc, that needs to be paid for.

 

[natespf]

It's also cheaper to expand current parks. Building an entire new park not only is a multi-billion dollar commitment - something that would be better thrown at the current parks anyway - but it's more CMs, infrastructure, electricity, etc, etc, that needs to be paid for.

This is why I don't like that they're keeping DHS landlocked. I understand it's expanding the guest areas but basically within the same footprint. I wish it was set up so that latter on it could be expanded to a full day park.

 

[Nick]

This is why I don't like that they're keeping DHS landlocked. I understand it's expanding the guest areas but basically within the same footprint. I wish it was set up so that latter on it could be expanded to a full day park.

There is still room to expand within the same footprint actually if the demolish the entire Animation building and connect to RNRC courtyard. There's also other expansion pads near Fantasmic.

But they also aren't land locked. The fact that they didn't build a garage and they built surface parking next to SWGE is proof enough. That's PRIME expansion land. They could also expand into the parking lot next to where Indy is. They haven't yet because the park - as is - was a mess and needed to be fixed before they even thought about expanding the footprint. Technically they did expand "guest footprint" though, as TSL is on land that never used to be accessible except for a minute or so while on the tram tour. Other than that it was backstage space and tram tour.

 

[Orlandofan12]

It's also cheaper to expand current parks. Building an entire new park not only is a multi-billion dollar commitment - something that would be better thrown at the current parks anyway - but it's more CMs, infrastructure, electricity, etc, etc, that needs to be paid for.

The numbers people in Global Development are some of the most intelligent people in the company and really the whole world. They do a massive multivariable analysis on big projects like new gates. If they determine that a fifth gate is necessary, you can be sure the numbers add up.

Disney doesn't want to completely build out all their parks before a fifth gate is built. The reasoning behind this is obvious.

 

[natespf]

There is still room to expand within the same footprint actually if the demolish the entire Animation building and connect to RNRC courtyard. There's also other expansion pads near Fantasmic.

I get that but it's the same Uni Studios faced and the next SCREENZ debate of 2050

But they also aren't land locked. The fact that they didn't build a garage and they built surface parking next to SWGE is proof enough. That's PRIME expansion land. They could also expand into the parking lot next to where Indy is. They haven't yet because the park - as is - was a mess and needed to be fixed before they even thought about expanding the footprint. Technically they did expand "guest footprint" though, as TSL is on land that never used to be accessible except for a minute or so while on the tram tour. Other than that it was backstage space and tram tour.

It's a good point they could extend out beyond Indy with another huge project. But it'd seem hodgepodged together, well I guess it already is though. I just wish this project was laid out a little differently, but we'll see what the future holds for this park. opcorn:

 

[Nick]

I get that but it's the same Uni Studios faced and the next SCREENZ debate of 2050



It's a good point they could extend out beyond Indy with another huge project. But it'd seem hodgepodged together, well I guess it already is though. I just wish this project was laid out a little differently, but we'll see what the future holds for this park. opcorn:

Hopefully this year is another big D23.

 

[bob albert]

A 5th park comes with a ton of additional problems for Disney.
- They have to invest even more on infrastructure to take and bring guests from their hotel rooms to the new park. Something Disney isn't great in investing in.
- A new park is a whole new operation with it's own restaurant, cleaning, landscaping, etc staff.
- The new park with all the new rides will be another competing factor to their current parks meaning adding rides there to bring people back.

It would be smarter to invest in new rides that put more butts in seat in their current parks so at least 2500+ guests/hour.
Invest new rides in unused locations and bring life to empty buildings. All the parks combined have worth a collection of empty buildings that is coming close to a new theme park. They are doing it now (Paris Rat, Space restaurant, Ellen's Energy, Galaxy Edge) but there is a ton to do and add before they need to think of a new theme park.

I think the infrastructure thing is huge. After everything is built out Universal with all their hotels within close distance to the parks and potentially 4 dry parks, 2 water pars, dining and entertainment with a high capacity transport between two main hubs would crush Disney on efficiency and profit margin and probably still make it easier to offer rooms or tickets at a lower cost if the wish to.

 

[NuteGunrayWasFramed]

Weird development in the Bob Iger Twitter story...his Twitter is gone?

 

[Nick]

Weird development in the Bob Iger Twitter story...his Twitter is gone?

I swear someone hacked it.

 

[tielo]

I think the infrastructure thing is huge. After everything is built out Universal with all their hotels within close distance to the parks and potentially 4 dry parks, 2 water pars, dining and entertainment with a high capacity transport between two main hubs would crush Disney on efficiency and profit margin and probably still make it easier to offer rooms or tickets at a lower cost if the wish to.

Disney is very inventive with it's land, producing energy, house for the uber rich, shopping malls, gas stations, Mc'Donalds, sports complex, non Disney hotels and more. No theme parks but good for a steady income. They could (and should) invest that into infrastructure and I'm sure they partially do. Universal could never compete with that.

 

[GAcoaster]

Disney is very inventive with it's land, producing energy, house for the uber rich, shopping malls, gas stations, Mc'Donalds, sports complex, non Disney hotels and more. No theme parks but good for a steady income. They could (and should) invest that into infrastructure and I'm sure they partially do. Universal could never compete with that.

But, Universal doesn't have to. Disney's expenses are enormous in comparison to Universal's. Just look at how much Disney spends on transportation compared to Universal. The way the Disney property was designed requires a fleet of busses that puts most cities to shame. Universal is a smarter design since it's a fairly small footprint and self contained. Even Universal's expansion will be much more cost effective than what Disney does.

 

[Nick]

But, Universal doesn't have to. Disney's expenses are enormous in comparison to Universal's. Just look at how much Disney spends on transportation compared to Universal. The way the Disney property was designed requires a fleet of busses that puts most cities to shame. Universal is a smarter design since it's a fairly small footprint and self contained. Even Universal's expansion will be much more cost effective than what Disney does.

Why do you think the Skyliner is being built? Disney plans on cutting bus service to all of those hotels way, way down once it’s running.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Why do you think the Skyliner is being built? Disney plans on cutting bus service to all of those hotels way, way down once it’s running.

Why do I have a feeling this will turn into another MDX situation where the justification is that but in the end they won't be able to cut down as much as they thought and instead cuts will come from somewhere else.