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Epcot Forever

ONE YEAR, I'm asking people to not bring those noise makers for JUST ONE YEAR

people didn’t bring them Disney was handing them out. They were going off like crazy at the start of distribution around 4...then stopped and picked back up again.

it was busy but a great time.

got to watch Epcot Forever a second and third time. It’s growing on me, mostly because of nostalgia. Really hoping they knock it out of the park with HarmoniUS. If you are going to take out a show like Illuminations the replacement better be great.
 
The new version of the show feels a lot better than 1.0 IMO...More pyro, better use of pyro, and the kites weren't really that necessary
 
Harmonious already had a lot to live up to going after IllumiNations, but I think this new version of the show definitely makes the show have even more pressure with the Epcot purist audience (which is admittedly an older audience). I saw the new version of the show tonight and I was pretty impressed overall. It's mostly a pure fireworks show now set to classic Epcot music, no real frills (kites, etc), but there being more pyro now definitely makes it a better overall show and honestly I enjoy it overall.

From what I can tell, Disney is catering more to the young millennials/Gen Z audience, which doesn't care about Epcot's history nearly as much as the Boomers/Gen Xers that grew up with the EPCOT Center that everyone loves to reminisce about. I know a lot of friends around my age and a lot of Gen Zers only care about seeing characters at the parks. The only reason most enjoy Epcot is for drinking around the world.

I know this isn't what most of you want to hear, but Disney simply has no interest in catering to the small group of people who care about Epcot's past. They want to put IP in their parks which lets be honest, is going to make guest satisfaction higher than it currently is.
 
And with that, this show is officially over. The show may not have been perfect, but it was also probably the last time some of that music will ever be played in Epcot in any meaningful way. It was a good nostalgic show that utilized Epcot's history of original music very well.
 
As @Joe said and I figured would happen, Epcot Forever is rumored to come back as an interim show again after Harmonious ends, which I’d expect to be around the end of the 50th (3/31/23).
 
Don't expect the kites to return.
The kites never came back once the show returned in July 2021 for it's final few months (after there being no fireworks at WDW for a year after the reopening) so I know at least I am not expecting the kites. We haven't seen them since March 2020 and they were having a lot of issues with them even then. Add in how much of a train wreck KiteTales was and I think it's time to just stop using kites.

I know someone who maintained the kites for Epcot Forever and they said it was an absolute nightmare the stuff they would have to do to fix the kites after each show.
 
I know someone who maintained the kites for Epcot Forever and they said it was an absolute nightmare the stuff they would have to do to fix the kites after each show.

That's pretty much why Tapestry went away, very popular parade but it was INSANE to maintain.
 
That's pretty much why Tapestry went away, very popular parade but it was INSANE to maintain.
Plus, how could they litter World Showcase with festival booths year-round if there was still a parade rolling through?!?

Seriously though, if memory serves me correctly, the version of this show without the Kites was more enjoyable imo. The jet-skis and kites provides some cool visuals, but the revamped version without the kite had a lot more fireworks in it to help make up for the loss of the kites and that was a very good tradeoff imo.

We'll see if there's any differences in a version 3.0. I'm going to guess the show *might* use the barges for very simple graphic displays (for example show an animation of Figment when "One Little Spark" plays or scenes). The screens could actually make it even more nostalgic if they showed scenes from Horizons, Universe of Energy, Kitchen Kabaret, World of Motion, etc. Wouldn't take a lot of work at all and they have the infrastructure in place to showcase something like that if they wanted to put any effort into this at all.

Last thing I had on my mind was about the date Harmonious will end and this will begin. I know 3/31/23 keeps getting thrown around as a potential last day for Harmonious since that's when the 50th ends, but tbh, they should just rip the band-aid off and bring Epcot Forever back for Epcot's 40th in 2 weeks. That allows you to get to work on whatever the new show is and play Epcot Forever during a time when people will want to celebrate Epcot.
 
The earliest it will close is 3/31/2023. Considering how much a PITA the barges are 1) they'll want to close it sooner than later 2) probably won't use them in this new show.
 
The earliest it will close is 3/31/2023. Considering how much a PITA the barges are 1) they'll want to close it sooner than later 2) probably won't use them in this new show.
So are the barges actually expected to go away while Epcot Forever plays in preparation for whatever the next permanent show is? Because I was under the impression that they were just going to stay because of how much money they poured into them and how much work it will be to get rid of them as well (after only 18 months or so of use).
 
So are the barges actually expected to go away while Epcot Forever plays in preparation for whatever the next permanent show is? Because I was under the impression that they were just going to stay because of how much money they poured into them and how much work it will be to get rid of them as well (after only 18 months or so of use).

I'm not 100% TBH, but I fully expect them to be reworked at the least. Epcot operations HATES the barges with a firey passion - they're a money sink and look like poop.
 
I'm not 100% TBH, but I fully expect them to be reworked at the least. Epcot operations HATES the barges with a firey passion - they're a money sink and look like poop.
Oh I agree they look terrible, it's just they put a lot of time into building infrastructure into the lake so that these things could permanently live out there. It's not going to be a quick process to undo everything that was done.

When you think of how much money they spent on both Harmonious and Rivers of Light combined and for them both to already basically be dead in the water after spending I wanna say close to a combined $500M on these two projects it's just sad. Both projects were insanely expensive, were extremely unpopular, and ultimately ended up being a waste of resources.

Think of what they could've done with the money they spent on these two lame duck projects. That money definitely could've gone to fixing Dinoland at the very least and then the money that they're talking about spending for DAK right now could've been allocated towards DHS to continue sprucing up that park.

Both of those shows are to blame on Steve Davision as well. Looking at his resume, he's been the lead behind great projects all over the world. For some reason, he just can't seem to put together a good nighttime show at WDW, though. The best thing he's done in recent memory is Festival of Fantasy at MK and as good of a parade as it is, it's just a daytime parade. It's not the big nighttime spectacle everyone looks forward to.
 
To me, the fact that we are getting Epcot Forever back as an interim show -- perhaps lasting as long as six or seven months, if we assume the new show debuts in fall of 2023 -- implies to me that significant changes are coming to the infrastructure. Whether or not that means wholesale removal of the barges remains to be seen, but if they were staying completely as-is, I just don't think it would take Imagineering that long to install and test a new show that would be more of an overlay than anything else.
 
Oh I agree they look terrible, it's just they put a lot of time into building infrastructure into the lake so that these things could permanently live out there. It's not going to be a quick process to undo everything that was done.

When you think of how much money they spent on both Harmonious and Rivers of Light combined and for them both to already basically be dead in the water after spending I wanna say close to a combined $500M on these two projects it's just sad. Both projects were insanely expensive, were extremely unpopular, and ultimately ended up being a waste of resources.

Think of what they could've done with the money they spent on these two lame duck projects. That money definitely could've gone to fixing Dinoland at the very least and then the money that they're talking about spending for DAK right now could've been allocated towards DHS to continue sprucing up that park.

Both of those shows are to blame on Steve Davision as well. Looking at his resume, he's been the lead behind great projects all over the world. For some reason, he just can't seem to put together a good nighttime show at WDW, though. The best thing he's done in recent memory is Festival of Fantasy at MK and as good of a parade as it is, it's just a daytime parade. It's not the big nighttime spectacle everyone looks forward to.

If I was Disney I'd take all the barges backstage and rework them to remove all the screens and moving elements. Turn them into pyro/fountain barges with maybe water screens. Then rework the Stargate into something *better*.

It's rather astonishing just how bad Disney is with nighttime shows now. It's mind-boggling - 0/3 with new ones. Universal has a better track record now!
 
It's rather astonishing just how bad Disney is with nighttime shows now. It's mind-boggling - 0/3 with new ones. Universal has a better track record now!
This is weirdly a uniquely Disney World issue though. Every other resort has been getting great shows. Simply look at HKDL's "Momentous", which opened earlier this year as an example of a great new show.

 
Sometimes it's better for a company to just get rid of a money sucking unpopular operation (like the barges), write it off, and end it's life. Otherwise it becomes a never ending money pit,
and serves no purpose, especially since it's existence conjures up so much negativism. Swallow your pride, fire those responsible (everyone could see it was a bad idea except for some
arrogant out of touch Imagineers) , and go forward with something else.
 
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