Human Rights, Horror Nights and the Theme Park Community

[Clive]

I just read the thread. The only specific I saw mentioned was from HHN 25 and it was still more heresay.

What I did see was non stop intolerance, piling on and shaming for anyone that had an alternate opinion. Ive talked to many female scare actors. Ive never once had one bring up being assaulted. By the sounds of it, many in this thread just think looking at a girl or guy SA in a revealing costume is assault. Looking at an SA isnt assault. Someone brought up "Batricia" Both actresses that I saw play her when I was there were very good looking. I loved that scare zone and spent lots of rest time there. If "assault" was such a rampant issue, id have at least noticed something. All I saw were people taking selfies with her. People often gave her a lot of distance because she was on stilts and security was always nearby and doing their jobs.

Its people like yall that think everyone should share blame from the EXTREMELY RARE actions of a few drunk idiots. I once fell over avoiding walking into a SA that didnt see me in a house. Is SAs assaulting guests now an issue???

Actually, you know what, this post is so egregious that I am going to break it down by point by point. Refuting garbage like this matters.

First of all, hearsay, not heresay. If you're going to try to intellectualize your way through this, at least get the word right.

If you think any of that discussion amounted to intolerance, I am genuinely concerned about how you interact with others and behave in these environments. Nothing said was particularly controversial. What "alternate opinions," exactly, are you advocating for? Name them. Specifically. The fact that you are keeping up a vague "man Horror Nights shouldn't be politicized" front is telling.

I scare acted for five years. Women were assaulted every single night and at an observably higher rate than male-presenting performers. Assaults were especially common amongst characters that were obviously female presenting, and in many cases, those assaults were sexual in nature (i.e. grabbing for or striking sensitive areas). This is not up for debate. It is not hearsay. It's not rare. It is a known problem that led to Orlando finally installing camera security systems to better monitor and catch perpetrators. There's a reason Hollywood's event, which has unionized scare actors, requires the camera monitoring systems. It's to address and mitigate a thoroughly documented issue.

Willfully or not, you are engaging in confirmation bias. Just because you watched a particular scare actor for a set period of time and did not witness any issues does not mean that none happened. Just because you "talked to many female scare actors" and haven't heard of any problems doesn't mean they aren't happening to others. I can't believe I have to explain this to you. Hell, in this same spot in 2015, there were two extremely documented incidents in which two women - one playing Carrie, the other a Camp Crystal Lake counselor - both very publicly quit due to the repeated sexual harassment and assault they were experiencing. These are just two people who chose to come forward because they simply couldn't take it anymore.

Your fixation on thinking folks believe "looking" at a scare actor constitutes assault says more about you than it does anyone else. Leering at a scare actor is not assault, but it can absolutely be harassment and deeply unpleasant behavior that should be rejected.

 

[hallowrant]

OK. We're not going to do this. You continue to ignore veterans, Scareactors, and more to push a false narrative and shift blame when there has been evidence to the contrary. Drop it and leave the discussion alone because you're looking like a real ass right now.

Sure thing officer

 

[Brian G.]

Sure thing officer

Well, it's clear you're here to just be an ass and start trouble so - banned. We're not gonna play this game.

 

[Allison]

Since there a lot of locals that utilize IU, if you have anyone (women and female presenting) in your life working at a theme park, please make them aware of this incredibly creepy subreddit so they can make sure their photos haven’t been posted.

 

[Legacy]

And, I also want to state for anyone confused about how this stuff relates to HHN and horror in general, this sort of thing pops up specifically about HHN performers every year as well.

 

[Brian G.]

And, I also want to state for anyone confused about how this stuff relates to HHN and horror in general, this sort of thing pops up specifically about HHN performers every year as well.

I remember a time they would tag themselves in my photos on social before they stopped because people "got weird".

 

[Nick]

And, I also want to state for anyone confused about how this stuff relates to HHN and horror in general, this sort of thing pops up specifically about HHN performers every year as well.

I remember a time they would tag themselves in my photos on social before they stopped because people "got weird".

It’s that weird fight of people want to be able to show off their role and they should be able to without people being creepy, but people be creeps and they’re more worried about their own safety and keeping themselves anonymous.

It’s honestly time Universal actually steps in (and Disney with that subreddit crap because wtf) to put an end to the crap and actually prioritize TM/CM safety.

 

[Legacy]

It’s that weird fight of people want to be able to show off their role and they should be able to without people being creepy, but people be creeps and they’re more worried about their own safety and keeping themselves anonymous.

It’s honestly time Universal actually steps in (and Disney with that subreddit crap because wtf) to put an end to the crap and actually prioritize TM/CM safety.

And they should protect their employees. They generally do and are getting marginally better. But there is really nothing they can do for their employees off-property, which is really where issues like Reddit and social media exacerbate the problems. And, to that extent, what can these companies do? Short of the companies preventing their employees from having any social media precepts, there isn’t much they can enact after hours. Creepers are going to creep.

This is where fixing the problem requires a cultural solution. At its core, this sort of behavior is culturally ingrained and (in many circles) accepted. Not allowing it, culturally, and vehemently speaking out against is the truest fix. It’s not a corporate fix. It’s people.

 

[Kichkinet85]

All this needs fixing but what can theme parks really do? Sure the can ban the said person and maybe file a report but as it nothing against any laws(which is very unfortunate and probably needs fixing to a degree) nothing can really be done in a theme park level unfortunately. The issue needs to go higher than theme parks and people need to take more of a stand.

To many people won’t say anything and that needs to change. If you see something, say something. We all love theme parks here but we need to stop thinking there all magical and perfect because there not 100% of the time. Sure they can be at times and it’s easy to get caught up in that. Epically when it’s are vacation but the world doesn’t stop for anything.

 

[Nick]

And they should protect their employees. They generally do and are getting marginally better. But there is really nothing they can do for their employees off-property, which is really where issues like Reddit and social media exacerbate the problems. And, to that extent, what can these companies do? Short of the companies preventing their employees from having any social media precepts, there isn’t much they can enact after hours. Creepers are going to creep.

This is where fixing the problem requires a cultural solution. At its core, this sort of behavior is culturally ingrained and (in many circles) accepted. Not allowing it, culturally, and vehemently speaking out against is the truest fix. It’s not a corporate fix. It’s people.

One could argue that a way of the companies at least trying to combat the reddit stuff would be by trying to see if they can identify anyone and if they are AP holders. If they are able to do that (maybe not on Reddit but let’s say Twitter) then their APs should be revoked and bans should come their way for the employees safety.

 

[Legacy]

One could argue that a way of the companies at least trying to combat the reddit stuff would be by trying to see if they can identify anyone and if they are AP holders. If they are able to do that (maybe not on Reddit but let’s say Twitter) then their APs should be revoked and bans should come their way for the employees safety.

I like this idea. I really do. It just opens up a swath of legal concerns where a private corporation is dictating behaviors when its consumers are not directly consuming their product. Where is the line drawn?

I know England has laws explicitly against online harassment (hate speech, specifically) of public figures. They use it to protect soccer players from racism heavily. Would that fly in the US? Highly unlikely.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I like this idea. I really do. It just opens up a swath of legal concerns where a private corporation is dictating behaviors when its consumers are not directly consuming their product. Where is the line drawn?

I know England has laws explicitly against online harassment (hate speech, specifically) of public figures. They use it to protect soccer players from racism heavily. Would that fly in the US? Highly unlikely.

I think universal has plenty of grounds to issue trespasses to creeps who stalk employees online.

 

[Allison]

Gentle reminder: assaulting and harassing TM’s/CM’s/SA’s isn’t funny, and if you find something like that to be comical I’d recommend, again, to avoid this thread if you can’t handle yourself to respect others.

 

[Brian G.]

Gentle reminder: assaulting and harassing TM’s/CM’s/SA’s isn’t funny, and if you find something like that to be comical I’d recommend, again, to avoid this thread if you can’t handle yourself to respect others.

That’s directed mostly at you, @SpatulaShack.

 

[KlownzNskullZ]

Horror nights literally got rid of actors rolls due to the frequency of being touched… they had to rewrite whole scenes mid run because of it.

I first hand have had to call out guests and I don’t care don’t touch people don’t harass, you know what’s appropriate to say.

Universal studios bans people all the time. We just don’t hear about it

 

[amar831]

I think they do a great job at trying to keep the actors safe. I’ve never seen any SA myself, but there’s been two instances I’ve seen where a guest has physically assaulted an actor in a house. First was Ho1C, and security was able to stop them very quickly, truly hope they got banned.

The second unfortunately I’m not sure if they were able to get the guy. It was in Exorcist: Believer, but I just remembered seeing someone from the cast talking to ops at the exit, and genuinely having no idea what was going on. As my group and I were leaving the house we were gushing about how solid of a house it is, and someone just randomly asked us if we had just gone through the Exorcist house and if we had punched or seen someone punch an actor. I hope they were able to find them, especially with the implementation of cameras in the houses, but I do feel like those soundstage house exits all converging makes it very easy to just disappear in the crowd as opposed to the tent/parade exits which hold you in a line for a longer period of time. Really hope they got kicked out/banned.

 

[Andysol]

Since there a lot of locals that utilize IU, if you have anyone (women and female presenting) in your life working at a theme park, please make them aware of this incredibly creepy subreddit so they can make sure their photos haven’t been posted.

1) Could they even do anything about it?

2) Doesn’t this type of posting have the Streisand effect?

And while I agree with everything in this thread- especially with what @Nick said on the previous page- who is this thread even talking to?

Creepy gross people who are sexually harassing people are still going to sexually harass people even if you say they shouldn’t. I mean… Rev Freako was the 2nd comment in this thread complimenting and agreeing. And we know how that ended up on the social media platform formally known as Twitter…

So I guess I’m saying- what’s the point of the thread and statements outside of telling people here who hopefully aren’t touchers not to touch? Ignoring the fact that if they were touching people already they wouldn’t listen to you anyways because they already know touching isn’t right because they’re older than 11.

Is there some tangible action that can actually be done while still trying to keep HHN the immersive experience with close environments? Or do we just need to nix them because dumbasses are going to dumbass.
I’d obviously prefer the close encounters, but not at the expense of a SA getting clocked, groped or touched.

 

[Kichkinet85]

So I guess I’m saying- what’s the point?

The point is, this needs to be called out and talked about.

 

[Nick]

Is there some tangible action that can actually be done while still trying to keep HHN the immersive experience with close environments? Or do we just need to nix them because dumbasses are going to dumbass.
I’d obviously prefer the close encounters, but not at the expense of a SA getting clocked, groped or touched.

Less sexualization of both Men & Women would be a very good step that is actually feasible. Men get groped and touched as well, perhaps not as much, but I remember it was very bad with the Eddie's for example.

 

[Allison]

1) Could they even do anything about it?

2) Doesn’t this type of posting have the Streisand effect?

And while I agree with everything in this thread- especially with what @Nick said on the previous page- who is this thread even talking to?

Creepy gross people who are sexually harassing people are still going to sexually harass people even if you say they shouldn’t. I mean… Rev Freako was the 2nd comment in this thread complimenting and agreeing. And we know how that ended up on the social media platform formally known as Twitter…

So I guess I’m saying- what’s the point of the thread and statements outside of telling people here who hopefully aren’t touchers not to touch? Ignoring the fact that if they were touching people already they wouldn’t listen to you anyways because they already know touching isn’t right because they’re older than 11.

Is there some tangible action that can actually be done while still trying to keep HHN the immersive experience with close environments? Or do we just need to nix them because dumbasses are going to dumbass.
I’d obviously prefer the close encounters, but not at the expense of a SA getting clocked, groped or touched.

1. I’ve already seen one of these subreddits (cause there were more) get deleted due entirely to one person complaining because their own photos were on there, so, something can and was done about it in that case.

2. Personally, I think it’s important that more people are aware of a subreddit like that’s existence—if I were on that site, or a loved one was, I’d want to know so I could do everything in my power to have mine or a loved ones photos taken down.

If you’re asking what the point is of this thread then you could probably ask the same question for this entire forum. What’s the point of having a thread about the state of Universal if nothing we say can change it? What’s the point of reviewing rides if they’re not gonna change what we don’t like? It’s a very slippery slope when you get to that aspect. IMO, there’s power in speaking up and being a voice for the voiceless. If people see that they’re supported and believed that could potentially give them the courage they may need to speak up about something traumatic that happened to them. I think in this case visibility is very important, and even as you said there were creeps in this thread (and still have been recently), they weren’t tolerated. I won’t speak for the other mods, but, on this subject I feel confident in saying none of us stand for this treatment that happens to employees and the more people that know it’s not tolerated, the better. You never know who’s lurking and who your words can be impacting.