Incredible Hulk Roughness

[Spideyfreak]

^It could be lots of things:

-Humidity and drastic temperature changes during the day cause things to expand and contract. Seasonal parks don't have to deal with this so much.
-All wheels not hugging the track. This could again, be the Florida weather playing with the suspension in the guide and upstop wheels. This causes the shuffling of the train.
-Worn wheels that are due to be replaced soon.
-The further back, you go, the bumpier it is. This is because the last car has seven other cars yanking on it while they're shuffling around the track.

And the big one: Hulk may only be 14 years old. But it operates year-round. Compared to a seasonal B&M, it probably has as many hours on it as a 20 year old ride. Kumba even more so.

Edit: I just did a quick calculation. Assuming Hulk has operated every day for an average of 12 hours a day, it has over 61,000 hours on it.

 

[Cruiseshipfan]

It may also be that it is using wheels built for speed no comfort. B&M ships both comfort and speed wheels, so the park can adjust turning testing. They may also be using a combination of the two, which can lead to some cars being rougher then others, apart from just cause by location.

 

[Spideyfreak]

^Good point, I forgot for a moment that B&Ms have two different wheels they use. On my last visit, it appears that Hulk uses the harder variety, which makes sense. The constant changes in weather would cause the softer ones to expand and contract too much, which is one of Rockit's problems.

 

[UK-Trigg]

^Good point, I forgot for a moment that B&Ms have two different wheels they use. On my last visit, it appears that Hulk uses the harder variety, which makes sense. The constant changes in weather would cause the softer ones to expand and contract too much, which is one of Rockit's problems.

These wear a lot quicker too, which doesn't help.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Greetings,

The explanation for Hulk's roughness over other B&M coasters is directly tied into the launch system. A bit of history on Hulk's development is in order. B&M were contacted by Universal and initally turned down the bid for the attraction because of not wanting to deal with the launch system. The complexity of the actual launch mechanics was only part of why they didn't want to do it though. Using a launch system tied to friction (the rubber tire pinch wheel assembly) would mean that B&M's greatest advantage over other competitors at the time would be compromised - their adjustable wheel assemblies. B&M was the one of the first on the coaster market that allows tension adjustments on the wheels that allow the "slop" between the wheel and the rail to be adjusted down to a minimum.

The friction launch system by its very nature requires that the train have some movement between the rails to compensate for wear and tear on the rubber wheels. If there is not enough "slop" in the gauge between the wheel assembly and the track, the friction and stress of the pinch system would stress the train's wheels and assemblies.

The extra roughness you feel on Hulk is because it cannot keep all of the wheels (road, guide, and upstop) in constant contact with the track. The shock of the train bouncing from rail to rail is what is maginified on Hulk vs. other B&M coasters. Why Hulk sometimes seems smoother than others is directly related to the current condition of the wheels (new wheels are thicker and have less slop) and to some extent, heat - when it's hotter, the ride may be running faster (depending on the compound of the wheels in use) and when faster, the train can stay "seated" on the rails a bit better.

Iron Wolf, now Apocalypse (B&M's first coaster) has trains without the adjustable wheel assemblies and has the same issues with roughness.

So in short, Hulk is a bit rougher than the average B&M because of the complex history of the launch system - which B&M didn't want to be involved with anyway. It's amazing what a few millimeters of slop in between the wheels and the track can cause. On Hulk it's really just a small amount. If you ever want to take a close look at huge amounts of play between wheel and track - look at an Arrow or Vekoma creation from the 80's. Some of them have inches of play. It is quite common to see only one of the 3 wheels in a set making contact at any given time.

I hope this makes sense.

Matt

 

[UK-Trigg]

Greetings,

The explanation for Hulk's roughness over other B&M coasters is directly tied into the launch system. A bit of history on Hulk's development is in order. B&M were contacted by Universal and initally turned down the bid for the attraction because of not wanting to deal with the launch system. The complexity of the actual launch mechanics was only part of why they didn't want to do it though. Using a launch system tied to friction (the rubber tire pinch wheel assembly) would mean that B&M's greatest advantage over other competitors at the time would be compromised - their adjustable wheel assemblies. B&M was the one of the first on the coaster market that allows tension adjustments on the wheels that allow the "slop" between the wheel and the rail to be adjusted down to a minimum.

The friction launch system by its very nature requires that the train have some movement between the rails to compensate for wear and tear on the rubber wheels. If there is not enough "slop" in the gauge between the wheel assembly and the track, the friction and stress of the pinch system would stress the train's wheels and assemblies.

The extra roughness you feel on Hulk is because it cannot keep all of the wheels (road, guide, and upstop) in constant contact with the track. The shock of the train bouncing from rail to rail is what is maginified on Hulk vs. other B&M coasters. Why Hulk sometimes seems smoother than others is directly related to the current condition of the wheels (new wheels are thicker and have less slop) and to some extent, heat - when it's hotter, the ride may be running faster (depending on the compound of the wheels in use) and when faster, the train can stay "seated" on the rails a bit better.

Iron Wolf, now Apocalypse (B&M's first coaster) has trains without the adjustable wheel assemblies and has the same issues with roughness.

So in short, Hulk is a bit rougher than the average B&M because of the complex history of the launch system - which B&M didn't want to be involved with anyway. It's amazing what a few millimeters of slop in between the wheels and the track can cause. On Hulk it's really just a small amount. If you ever want to take a close look at huge amounts of play between wheel and track - look at an Arrow or Vekoma creation from the 80's. Some of them have inches of play. It is quite common to see only one of the 3 wheels in a set making contact at any given time.

I hope this makes sense.

Matt

Interesting post, thanks :thumbs:

Do you know who was responsible for the launch system?

Right about 80s Arrows too, I rode cork screw.

 

[THORPID]

Thanks for the information, it makes sense when you think about it.

 

[Felipe]

That's very insightful! Thanks Matt! :thumbs:

PS: :welcome:

 

[bobwadd]

B&M was the one of the first on the coaster market that allows tension adjustments on the wheels that allow the "slop" between the wheel and the rail to be adjusted down to a minimum.

Do you mean the tolerance (gap) between the wheels and the track or are you saying they are spring loaded?

 

[Hockeyman55]

What a great first post Matt :thumbs:

 

[UK-Trigg]

Do you mean the tolerance (gap) between the wheels and the track or are you saying they are spring loaded?

I remember being told about this on the Montu tour, Im sure the Bogeys are spring loaded so the wheels can really hug the track.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

I believe Premier was the launch contractor; but, the coaster nerd in me remembers some first hand information told to me in confidence that it was an engineering firm from Minnesota that actually did the design. I can't recall the name at this time.

Yes, the wheel assemblies on B&M's are spring loaded and adjustable to keep the wheels in contact with the track at all times.

What I've always thought was odd in the B&M rides is that their over-the-shoulder restraints are among the absolute worst for comfort (hard compound, very close tolerance to your head, and they go up really high); but, the amazing thing is that they get away with it because of the incredible smoothness their rides offer. I understand why they make them that way as it is protection against side-to-side whiplash; but, simply going to a softer compound on rides like Hulk would make a huge difference. Of course, soft compound restraints get lots of wear and tear.

Oh and regarding the different compound wheels that B&M uses, they provide them different options to regulate the speed of the ride. While the ride is undergoing testing, they will swap various compounds in to get the ride into the designed parameters (usually dictated by cycle time).

 

[THORPID]

Thanks for the post JediMasterMatt, really good info!

 

[Licciardi]

But once you go on Space Mountain at DLP, nothing will ever feel rough again.

I got whiplash on Space Mountain when I was about 5 or 6... Not only that but we had to cut our vacation short because of a death in the family.
Needless to say I'm not on very good grounds with Disney! Haha

 

[Accio Butterbeer]

I got whiplash on Space Mountain when I was about 5 or 6... Not only that but we had to cut our vacation short because of a death in the family.
Needless to say I'm not on very good grounds with Disney! Haha

space mountain by far is the roughest rollercoaster or ride in general. I love it but sometimes..wow it beats me up! And honestly i didnt even realize it until recently for some reason..

 

[Bryce]

space mountain by far is the roughest rollercoaster or ride in general. I love it but sometimes..wow it beats me up! And honestly i didnt even realize it until recently for some reason..

I love Space Mountain. So much. It does need a better refurbishment than what it last got. And I'm always terrified while riding it due to the fact it feels like the whole ride structure is going to collapse, you feel like you're going to be thrown from your tiny rocket, the sound effects are loud and disorienting, and the darkness/stars just add to the chaos.

What a fun ride!

 

[Mike]

I agree Bryce. While not cutting edge or up to date on modern effects. The inline seating so close and low to the track really make it a unique fun spin. I'll take it anyday over one of the Vekoma junior coasters.

I think DL is x100000 better, but that doesn't mean it needs to be in Orlando.

 

[Accio Butterbeer]

I love Space Mountain. So much. It does need a better refurbishment than what it last got. And I'm always terrified while riding it due to the fact it feels like the whole ride structure is going to collapse, you feel like you're going to be thrown from your tiny rocket, the sound effects are loud and disorienting, and the darkness/stars just add to the chaos.

What a fun ride!

I agree, it literally feels like the ride is going out of control..like your going to fly off the track. It also feels like it gets faster towards the end.

 

[Spideyfreak]

I have a love/hate relationship with SM. It's arrow, which makes it a classic. But Arrows come with a price for tall people. I hate how the track isn't heartlined and there's no upper back support. I got serious whiplash after my one ride a few weeks ago.

Now let me grab my coat hanger...

 

[Bryce]

I agree, it literally feels like the ride is going out of control..like your going to fly off the track. It also feels like it gets faster towards the end.

Yeah! The last helix is intense. Especially since its now doubled with that, "Woom, Woom, Woom, WOOOOM" sound effect. And there is a pretty steep drop during the second half of the course.

I still wish some effects would get updated. Like the worm-hole at the end and basically all of the lift-hill. And I hate that carpet at the exit area. Though it's one of my top favorite roller coasters!