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John Lasseter's Accusations and Statement

  • Thread starter Thread starter Parkscope Joe
  • Start date Start date Nov 21, 2017
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Miketheboss

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  • Nov 22, 2017
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There are no specific details but is leaning in to kiss someone considered sexual harassment? Unless people ask before kissing, touching, etc, we are all guilty. What if you think the person is into you, you make a move and the person doesn't resist or refuse? I'm not looking for responses to these questions. If the victims don't refuse/resist but comply and are competent when there is no physical present danger, are they really victims? All I know is Hollywood is shook, quaking.

scott_walker said:
I think this thread should be locked.
Click to expand...


There really isn't anything more to say about it tbh, especially on these forums.
 
Andysol

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Joe said:
There’s a lot to unpack here. I disagree on nearly all your points because of one word: consent.

Consent is a verbal yes. Consent isn’t dressing “sexy” or a skirt, consent isn’t allowing a creepy hug because you don’t want to cause issues in a workplace you’re already an outsider from, consent isn’t using your body to sell a product. And if no consent is given then they are victims and us on the outside do not have right to say otherwise.

No consent was given for long hugs and a kiss on the lips, no consent was given for putting your hand on a knee of someone in a skirt. It may not be the degree that Weinstein, Cosby, Louis CK, or others went to but it is still harassement and there are victims.
Click to expand...

True. On one hand I feel like a long hug isn’t something to get worked up about. He’s a creeper, move on and call it a day.

But on the other hand- I can see that if you don’t stand up to it, it could move into stronger advancements, etc. Or even just giving him the assurance that that type of behavior is ok- so now the next guy does it.

I guess the term “victim” just sounds overblown- but I guess there isn’t a word for it otherwise.

On another note- I’m curious how many people slept with Weinstein willingly to advance their careers. They aren’t victims, clearly- but do we disagree with their actions? Their consent and free will completely undermines other actresses.

It’s also humorous that every allegation comes out against guys who look like Lasseter, Weinstein and Louis C.K. What, do attractive men not sexually Harass anyone? Or is a similar action ok if Brad Pitt does it? ;)

Miketheboss said:
There are no specific details but is leaning in to kiss someone considered sexual harassment? Unless people ask before kissing, touching, etc, we are all guilty. What if you think the person is into you, you make a move and the person doesn't resist or refuse? I'm not looking for responses to these questions. If the victims don't refuse/resist but comply and are competent when there is no physical present danger, are they really victims? All I know is Hollywood is shook, quaking.
Click to expand...

Good point. You have a few drinks, you misread the situation, you go in for the kiss and get rejected. It’s happened to the best of us. Is that person a victim? Should we mutually discuss it “I would like to kiss you, do I have your consent?” Kind of kills the mood. Or, you just get rejected- no harm, no foul.
 
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Parkscope Joe

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  • Nov 22, 2017
  • #43
scott_walker said:
This is difficult discussion to have because everybody has a different definition of where the line is. What some people think is ok is different for somebody else.

The problem with long hugs is that you can't exactly give consent, you can say stop but I think most people wouldn't. They don't potentially want to create a scene, they could have doubts that they are right, they don't want to embarrass their boss, etc.

I think this thread should be locked.
Click to expand...

Miketheboss said:
There are no specific details but is leaning in to kiss someone considered sexual harassment? Unless people ask before kissing, touching, etc, we are all guilty. What if you think the person is into you, you make a move and the person doesn't resist or refuse? I'm not looking for responses to these questions. If the victims don't refuse/resist but comply and are competent when there is no physical present danger, are they really victims? All I know is Hollywood is shook, quaking.
Click to expand...

Andysol said:
True. On one hand I feel like a long hug isn’t something to get worked up about. He’s a creeper, move on and call it a day.

But on the other hand- I can see that if you don’t stand up to it, it could move into stronger advancements, etc. Or even just giving him the assurance that that type of behavior is ok- so now the next guy does it.

I guess the term “victim” just sounds overblown- but I guess there isn’t a word for it otherwise.

On another note- I’m curious how many people slept with Weinstein willingly to advance their careers. They aren’t victims, clearly- but do we disagree with their actions? Their consent and free will completely undermines other actresses.

It’s also humorous that every allegation comes out against guys who look like Lasseter, Weinstein and Louis C.K. What, do attractive men not sexually Harass anyone? Or is a similar action ok if Brad Pitt does it? ;)



Good point. You have a few drinks, you misread the situation, you go in for the kiss and get rejected. It’s happened to the best of us. Is that person a victim? Should we mutually discuss it “I would like to kiss you, do I have your consent?” Kind of kills the mood. Or, you just get rejected- no harm, no foul.
Click to expand...

This isn’t a date, it’s work related functions. Social context is important. And because one person willingly sleeps with another doesn’t mean that other interactions between those or others is acceptable.

I don’t give long hugs to women at work and I don’t lean in for kisses. I hug my best friend because we have a decades long relationship. Read the room.
 
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Brian G.

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  • Nov 22, 2017
  • #44
The problem is after they say "No."

If you lean in for a kiss, they turn you down, and move on. That's a rejection.

If you lean in, they turn you down, and you go for it again.... then that's where the line is crossed.

It also helps in setting. On a date, obviously it's a more welcoming attempt. In an office setting... probably not.
 
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Scott W.

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  • Nov 22, 2017
  • #45
Joe said:
This isn’t a date, it’s work related functions. Social context is important. And because one person willingly sleeps with another doesn’t mean that other interactions between those or others is acceptable.
Click to expand...

Isnt Silicon Valley’s big thing that it isn’t your traditional work place?
 
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JoeCamel

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[QUOTE="Andysol, post: 622974, member: 8029"

Oops I screwed up your quote - sorry, the pretty people thing was what I am responding to below.... Sorry
[/QUOTE]

There is Ben Affleck

On another note I became scared to be in a room with children or near them in the parks lest I be accused of "things". As a single older male I have to be aware of these things (sad) but is it now the same with women? I can't say you look great today? Not reciprocate if they want to hug me? I'm so confused....
Back to Lassiter...
 
quinnmac000

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Joe said:
There’s a lot to unpack here. I disagree on nearly all your points because of one word: consent.

Consent is a verbal yes. Consent isn’t dressing “sexy” or a skirt, consent isn’t allowing a creepy hug because you don’t want to cause issues in a workplace you’re already an outsider from, consent isn’t using your body to sell a product. And if no consent is given then they are victims and us on the outside do not have right to say otherwise.

No consent was given for long hugs and a kiss on the lips, no consent was given for putting your hand on a knee of someone in a skirt. It may not be the degree that Weinstein, Cosby, Louis CK, or others went to but it is still harassement and there are victims.
Click to expand...

Correction:

Consent in recent years is a verbal yes. What constitute as consent has changed over the years. As time has gone on, things that were once okay have been diminished. I.e someone at church hugging you without asking was okay. Nowadays thats a no no due to "sexual harassment". As much as the person was well intentioned, the fact somene wasn't asked it was offensive.

While I agree, how someone dress or their status doesn't equate consent, things regarding harassment are way more grey than black/white. If someone is wearing a provocative outfit and someone says you look nice today in a totally non offensive manner, that can be taken as harassment. Some stranger who hears you talking with friends can be" sexually harassed" by comments you are making with your friends.

The biggest issue here for me as someone who has been a victim of sexual assault/rape is out of the stories rather, most never spoke up and said No/Stop. Literally yelling No, stop if someone is rubbing your knee in a public meeting would put a stop to that action right there because it highlights attention.

Even then, there is a huge societal different treatment for women conducting innappropriate actions vs males. Carrie Underwood kissing a 12 year old is cute and endearing when its some of the same predatory actions that other comment yet there is little to no outrage.

 
Miketheboss

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  • Nov 22, 2017
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[/QUOTE said:
There is Ben Affleck

On another note I became scared to be in a room with children or near them in the parks lest I be accused of "things". As a single older male I have to be aware of these things (sad) but is it now the same with women? I can't say you look great today? Not reciprocate if they want to hug me? I'm so confused....
Back to Lassiter...
Click to expand...

Times are changing I'll tell you that. My dad met my mom by "accidently" touching her behind in a pool. Happily married 20 years later. (At least that's what my dad says, she denies it)
 
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Legacy

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Andysol said:
Are we over-using the word “victim”? I mean- does being hugged for an uncomfortably long time really warrant the term victim?

Should it happen? No. Is he a creeper? Sounds like it. Are you a victim? Nah... you just got hugged by a creeper. Creepers are everywhere, and it’s part of being a woman unfortunately.

I just find it ironic that an industry that essentially promotes and perpetuates massive sexuality in all of its movies and culture overall is enraged that people act upon the sexuality. I mean- Who coined the term “sex sells”?

I go back to the two women who went up to Louis CKs room- or even Weinstein? Some of the cases, of course- blatant harassment and abuse of power. But in some of these situations, do they really warrant the term “victim”? Going into a hotel room of a grown man alone... what do you think is going to happen? You can have a conversation and drinks in a lobby or bar.

Let’s also not discount the thousands of women who use their sexuality and attractiveness to advance their career- as do men. If I’m an attractive woman, I’d use it to my advantage- and playing someone and using that isn’t a bad thing IMO.
Click to expand...
There's a unique caveat to all of this that is kind forgotten though. People in power, many times, don't fully recognize how much power they yield. For a lot of these men (and I say men here because that is the predominate topic of discussion, though women can be just as guilty) their "authority" is easily forgotten because it's a commonplace position for them. They're insulated from their power because they're not under their own authority. They're oblivious to it.

I say that because, in my position in the military, I hold immediate authority over a lot of people (men and women). It's extremely easy for me to slip into a mindset of "it's just me, it's not a big deal." Instead, I have to constantly remind myself that I outrank the people around me. I have authority. If I recommend something as innocuous as, "Let's go to lunch," the people who don't have the same power can interpret it as a directive. It can turn coffee into coercion.

It is the coercion that leads into abuse because the action isn't based on the subordinate's desire, abilities, or agency. It's based on the superior's desires.

You mention Louis CK and Weinstein with a valid question about the situation. These men don't do what they do "because of their power." They're simply able to do it because of their power. Their thought process is "I want to bring this girl to my room" for whatever reason (kink, humor, sex, etc). Their victims' thought process is "If I don't go, it could damage my career." There is a motivational disconnect between the abuser (male or female) and the victim (male or female) that allows these sorts of things to happen.

That disconnect is, in a word, a question of consent. Consent requires mutual agreement on the terms of an action, and is best determined when the relationship is on equal footing. Within that context, acting on sexuality and sex is fine as long as both/all parties consent (no judgement from me, folks). When those parties are unequal, like an adult/child, teacher/student, boss/employee, big industry hotshot/eager young upstart, the line between consent and coercion is blurred to the point of almost being erased. That's when it becomes abuse.

The ACTUAL fix is achieved by recognizing, respecting, and empathizing with the agency and desires of the subordinate/other person. Like I said; I keep it forefront in my mind, not to protect myself but, to protect those who work for me. Unfortunately, to get an entire society to adjust to that requires generational change. In the short term, however, holding people (men and women) accountable for their failures to do that at least serves as a kick-start.
 
Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
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Parkscope Joe

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Legacy said:
There's a unique caveat to all of this that is kind forgotten though. People in power, many times, don't fully recognize how much power they yield. For a lot of these men (and I say men here because that is predominate topic of discussion, though women can be just as guilty) their "authority" is easily forgotten because it's a commonplace position for them. They're insulated from their power because they're not under their own authority. They're oblivious to it.

I say that because, in my position in the military, I hold immediate authority over a lot of people (men and women). It's extremely easy for me to slip into a mindset of "it's just me, it's not big deal." Instead, I have to constantly remind myself that I outrank the people around me. I have authority. If I recommend something as innocuous as, "Let's go to lunch," the people who don't have the same power can interpret it as a directive. It can turn coffee into coercion.

It is the coercion that leads into abuse because the action isn't based on the subordinate's desire, abilities, or agency. It's based on the superior's desires.

You mention Louis CK and Weinstein with a valid question about the situation. These men don't do what they do "because of their power." They're simply able to do it because of their power. Their thought process is "I want to bring this girl to my room" for whatever reason (kink, humor, sex, etc). Their victims' thought process is "If I don't go, it could damage my career." There is a motivational disconnect between the abuser (male or female) and the victim (male or female) that allows these sorts of things to happen.

That disconnect is, in a word, a question of consent. Consent requires mutual agreement on the terms of an action, and is best determined when the relationship is on equal footing. Within that context, acting on sexuality and sex is fine as long as both/all parties consent (no judgement from me, folks). When those parties are unequal, like an adult/child, teacher/student, boss/employee, big industry hotshot/eager young upstart, the line between consent and coercion is blurred to the point of almost being erased. That's when it becomes abuse.

The ACTUAL fix is achieved by recognizing, respecting, and empathizing with the agency and desires of the subordinate/other person. Like I said; I keep it forefront in my mind, not to protect myself, but to protect those who work for me. Unfortunately, to get an entire society to adjust to that requires generational change. In the short term, however, holding people (men and women) accountable for their failures to do that at least serves as a kick-start.
Click to expand...

This is more eloquent way to explain this than I ever could. I agree and stand by this post.
 
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  • Nov 22, 2017
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Legacy said:
There's a unique caveat to all of this that is kind forgotten though. People in power, many times, don't fully recognize how much power they yield. For a lot of these men (and I say men here because that is predominate topic of discussion, though women can be just as guilty) their "authority" is easily forgotten because it's a commonplace position for them. They're insulated from their power because they're not under their own authority. They're oblivious to it.

I say that because, in my position in the military, I hold immediate authority over a lot of people (men and women). It's extremely easy for me to slip into a mindset of "it's just me, it's not big deal." Instead, I have to constantly remind myself that I outrank the people around me. I have authority. If I recommend something as innocuous as, "Let's go to lunch," the people who don't have the same power can interpret it as a directive. It can turn coffee into coercion.

It is the coercion that leads into abuse because the action isn't based on the subordinate's desire, abilities, or agency. It's based on the superior's desires.

You mention Louis CK and Weinstein with a valid question about the situation. These men don't do what they do "because of their power." They're simply able to do it because of their power. Their thought process is "I want to bring this girl to my room" for whatever reason (kink, humor, sex, etc). Their victims' thought process is "If I don't go, it could damage my career." There is a motivational disconnect between the abuser (male or female) and the victim (male or female) that allows these sorts of things to happen.

That disconnect is, in a word, a question of consent. Consent requires mutual agreement on the terms of an action, and is best determined when the relationship is on equal footing. Within that context, acting on sexuality and sex is fine as long as both/all parties consent (no judgement from me, folks). When those parties are unequal, like an adult/child, teacher/student, boss/employee, big industry hotshot/eager young upstart, the line between consent and coercion is blurred to the point of almost being erased. That's when it becomes abuse.

The ACTUAL fix is achieved by recognizing, respecting, and empathizing with the agency and desires of the subordinate/other person. Like I said; I keep it forefront in my mind, not to protect myself, but to protect those who work for me. Unfortunately, to get an entire society to adjust to that requires generational change. In the short term, however, holding people (men and women) accountable for their failures to do that at least serves as a kick-start.
Click to expand...

I think that pretty much says it. I think we are done here.
See you all in 6 months when Lassiter doesn't return.....
 
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  • Nov 22, 2017
  • #52
Legacy said:
There's a unique caveat to all of this that is kind forgotten though. People in power, many times, don't fully recognize how much power they yield. For a lot of these men (and I say men here because that is the predominate topic of discussion, though women can be just as guilty) their "authority" is easily forgotten because it's a commonplace position for them. They're insulated from their power because they're not under their own authority. They're oblivious to it.

I say that because, in my position in the military, I hold immediate authority over a lot of people (men and women). It's extremely easy for me to slip into a mindset of "it's just me, it's not a big deal." Instead, I have to constantly remind myself that I outrank the people around me. I have authority. If I recommend something as innocuous as, "Let's go to lunch," the people who don't have the same power can interpret it as a directive. It can turn coffee into coercion.

It is the coercion that leads into abuse because the action isn't based on the subordinate's desire, abilities, or agency. It's based on the superior's desires.

You mention Louis CK and Weinstein with a valid question about the situation. These men don't do what they do "because of their power." They're simply able to do it because of their power. Their thought process is "I want to bring this girl to my room" for whatever reason (kink, humor, sex, etc). Their victims' thought process is "If I don't go, it could damage my career." There is a motivational disconnect between the abuser (male or female) and the victim (male or female) that allows these sorts of things to happen.

That disconnect is, in a word, a question of consent. Consent requires mutual agreement on the terms of an action, and is best determined when the relationship is on equal footing. Within that context, acting on sexuality and sex is fine as long as both/all parties consent (no judgement from me, folks). When those parties are unequal, like an adult/child, teacher/student, boss/employee, big industry hotshot/eager young upstart, the line between consent and coercion is blurred to the point of almost being erased. That's when it becomes abuse.

The ACTUAL fix is achieved by recognizing, respecting, and empathizing with the agency and desires of the subordinate/other person. Like I said; I keep it forefront in my mind, not to protect myself but, to protect those who work for me. Unfortunately, to get an entire society to adjust to that requires generational change. In the short term, however, holding people (men and women) accountable for their failures to do that at least serves as a kick-start.
Click to expand...

Don't mean to quote this a third time but I wanted to reply to @Andysol's post of which he quoted me for but what's the point: everything I wanted to say is here in a far more knowledgable, concise way. Cheers :cheers:
 
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Ryan said:
Don't mean to quote this a third time but I wanted to reply to @Andysol's post of which he quoted me for but what's the point: everything I wanted to say is here in a far more knowledgable, concise way. Cheers :cheers:
Click to expand...

No doubt. @Legacy with the mic drop.

Appreciate the perspective y’all. :cheers:
 
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Parkscope Joe

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Variety has a cover story on Lasseter. Damning reporting that Iger and Disney knew.

Disney Faces Daunting Questions in Wake of John Lasseter, Harvey Weinstein Scandals – Variety
 
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Legacy

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Joe said:
Variety has a cover story on Lasseter. Damning reporting that Iger and Disney knew.

Disney Faces Daunting Questions in Wake of John Lasseter, Harvey Weinstein Scandals – Variety
Click to expand...
:blank: <- This is my surprised face.
 
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Somewhere in Orlando Bill Z. is quickly distancing himself from Pixar Aloha shirts.
 
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Suprachica79

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Legacy said:
There's a unique caveat to all of this that is kind forgotten though. People in power, many times, don't fully recognize how much power they yield. For a lot of these men (and I say men here because that is the predominate topic of discussion, though women can be just as guilty) their "authority" is easily forgotten because it's a commonplace position for them. They're insulated from their power because they're not under their own authority. They're oblivious to it.

I say that because, in my position in the military, I hold immediate authority over a lot of people (men and women). It's extremely easy for me to slip into a mindset of "it's just me, it's not a big deal." Instead, I have to constantly remind myself that I outrank the people around me. I have authority. If I recommend something as innocuous as, "Let's go to lunch," the people who don't have the same power can interpret it as a directive. It can turn coffee into coercion.

It is the coercion that leads into abuse because the action isn't based on the subordinate's desire, abilities, or agency. It's based on the superior's desires.

You mention Louis CK and Weinstein with a valid question about the situation. These men don't do what they do "because of their power." They're simply able to do it because of their power. Their thought process is "I want to bring this girl to my room" for whatever reason (kink, humor, sex, etc). Their victims' thought process is "If I don't go, it could damage my career." There is a motivational disconnect between the abuser (male or female) and the victim (male or female) that allows these sorts of things to happen.

That disconnect is, in a word, a question of consent. Consent requires mutual agreement on the terms of an action, and is best determined when the relationship is on equal footing. Within that context, acting on sexuality and sex is fine as long as both/all parties consent (no judgement from me, folks). When those parties are unequal, like an adult/child, teacher/student, boss/employee, big industry hotshot/eager young upstart, the line between consent and coercion is blurred to the point of almost being erased. That's when it becomes abuse.

The ACTUAL fix is achieved by recognizing, respecting, and empathizing with the agency and desires of the subordinate/other person. Like I said; I keep it forefront in my mind, not to protect myself but, to protect those who work for me. Unfortunately, to get an entire society to adjust to that requires generational change. In the short term, however, holding people (men and women) accountable for their failures to do that at least serves as a kick-start.
Click to expand...

I'm going to quote this a fourth time because, while I do agree with the majority of what was said, I do disagree on one point- that these men do not understand their level of power. Harvey Weinstein was known among all as a raging A**hole who would try and ruin careers of the women who rejected his advances. I've recently heard of Louis Ck burying script after script, project after project of women who rejected him. A most recent story about a congressman firing a staffer because she rejected him. These men know they're stature and power because many of them are egomaniacal, constantly holding score with each other about who has more money.

It would almost be offensive to his intelligence to say that a 59-year old Matt Lauer was unaware that he held a $100 million+ brand on his back, and that he had no idea that a 23-year old intern just starting in the business may be fearful that he could wreck her career forever should she not go along with his advances, when it's a poorly kept secret that he got the fairly famous Ann Curry pushed out of her job.

On a personal note, as a woman in her late 20s who has experienced forms of sexual harassment in corporate America but thankfully no sexual assault, women with square heads on their shoulders know the difference between the two, know when to laugh things off as I did, or when they are really damaging. In either instance, it was not until incredibly recently that a young person felt the ability to voice these issues to people who could do something about it. Even now, it effects people in entertainment heavily because they are so visible, but I don't see much changing for the female factory worker in Worktown, USA, the receptionist at a doctors office, or the young intern in a local news room. And I am in no way trying to make this political, but credible allegations of pedophilia or sexual assault are not enough to disqualify someone from their elected government position, or make people take a real stand NOT to vote for them.

Again, as one of the few women in this thread, the majority of what I read in this thread is heartening, because it sounds like most of you are being introspective about all of this, and try to be aware of how you act and how it effects the women around you. Most of you. For some, I would say take a moment to have a conversation with some women in your life, use common sense, and don't put the blame on a woman when you behave badly, because trust me, that woman is blaming herself more than you ever could, many times when she bares no fault.
 
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  • Jan 9, 2019
  • #58
To bring this up, he has officially left the company; and will now be moving to Skydance Animation to head that company.

 
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