Opinion: Then vs Now

[Legacy]

Well this group of people don’t seem to care as much as compared to T.J., Roddy, and the rest of that team. This team cares more about the product and less about it as an event.

Talk to them about it. You'll see how much passion the have for what they do.

And if you think the product and the event are different things, you have a basic misunderstanding of how the whole thing is put together. The product IS the event. If you don't have the houses and zones (the product) you literally just have a normal theme park.

 

[IOA Explorer]

They just seem to not have fresh creative ideas like the old group. So much is rehashed since the old group broke apart. They may have the passion but they definitely aren’t as strong creatively. In the past the event was treated less like a corporate product. They just need to start hiring different people with fresher ideas. They’ve pretty much exhausted their original ideas at this point.

Talk to them about it. You'll see how much passion the have for what they do.

And if you think the product and the event are different things, you have a basic misunderstanding of how the whole thing is put together. The product IS the event. If you don't have the houses and zones (the product) you literally just have a normal theme park.

 

[Jwhee]

Entertainment - This is umbrella term that includes Events, Art & Design, Tech, Performers, etc. Within the context of this department, Art & Design are the ones who write scripts, design sets and costumes, and direct all live-shows within the park. Predominately, they're focus is on short-term stuff; things that are seasonal or have an inevitable end (though that may be open ended, like SuperStar). Art & Design are the ones who design and "create" HHN, parades, Grinchmas, etc.

.

Outside of HHN, who makes the regular theme park stage shows such as Fear Factor, Sinbad, Waterworld? Are those designed by creative and entertainment hand in hand?

 

[pat_naughty05]

I think the changing of the guard is apparent in the feel of the event, but the thing that strikes me is the difference in crowd levels. I went for the first time in 2000 but didn’t make it back until 2005, at which point I started attending regularly. Back then, IP houses simply weren’t a thing, and I thoroughly enjoyed Terra Cruentas and the enveloping story for the event. That being said, I can see why the event had to evolve from that. From a standpoint of practicality, it makes sense to think that you will attract more guests by building houses based on characters and stories that they are familiar with and already have an attachment to. If memory serves correctly, I think HHN 17 was the first big IP year with the Carnival of Carnage and the crowds increased exponentially from there.

Aside from giving guests the IP’s they already know, it seems like using IP’s takes a little stress off of the design group. Instead of having to design every house from scratch, they have visuals, environments, and characters that already exist to work from. I’m not implying that this gives them the opportunity to be lazy as was implied in another post, but I have to believe that it’s easier to design these experiences with a strong background to work from.

I feel like I’m one of those people that has watched HHN evolve from what it used to be to what it is. Yes, the two are very different. HHN many years ago bears similarities to Howl-O-Scream today in some ways, at least to me (disclaimer: I think HOS is great!). HHN today is a completely different beast, but you can clearly see the DNA of where it came from. I love both. There are things about the “old event” that I miss, many of which have been mentioned, but there are so many things that have been born from the evolution to the event we know today that I would hate to see go. To me, the following are undeniable between the event 10 years ago and the event today:
-The event is created by a passionate group of people that love what they do.
-The quality of the event is incredibly high
-There are flaws

 

[Legacy]

I think the changing of the guard is apparent in the feel of the event, but the thing that strikes me is the difference in crowd levels. I went for the first time in 2000 but didn’t make it back until 2005, at which point I started attending regularly. Back then, IP houses simply weren’t a thing, and I thoroughly enjoyed Terra Cruentas and the enveloping story for the event. That being said, I can see why the event had to evolve from that. From a standpoint of practicality, it makes sense to think that you will attract more guests by building houses based on characters and stories that they are familiar with and already have an attachment to. If memory serves correctly, I think HHN 17 was the first big IP year with the Carnival of Carnage and the crowds increased exponentially from there.

IPs were always a huge part of the event. People Under the Stairs and Psycho Path were houses in years 2 and 3, and were made because they were well-known IPs. They used the Universal Monsters in advertising in advertising because they were well-known.

People act like IPs were rare, when they were remarkably common. A lot of "original" houses were straight rip-offs of recognizable IPs (Body Collectors and Demon Cantina being the most egregious). Universal had Fear Factor as a house for god's sake.

2002 had 60% IP houses. Which would be a similar percentage as recent years. The ONLY difference is that they started advertising the IPs instead of just creating an independent marketing campaign without them.

 

[pat_naughty05]

IPs were always a huge part of the event. People Under the Stairs and Psycho Path were houses in years 2 and 3, and were made because they were well-known IPs. They used the Universal Monsters in advertising in advertising because they were well-known.

People act like IPs were rare, when they were remarkably common. A lot of "original" houses were straight rip-offs of recognizable IPs (Body Collectors and Demon Cantina being the most egregious). Universal had Fear Factor as a house for god's sake.

2002 had 60% IP houses. Which would be a similar percentage as recent years. The ONLY difference is that they started advertising the IPs instead of just creating an independent marketing campaign without them.

I’ll partially agree and partially disagree. Back then, IP’s we’re a possibility whereas now they’re a certainty. For the record, I have no problem whatsoever with this. I consider 2005 my first true year of attending the event, and there were no IP houses that year. I believe that was also true of 2004, and I think that 2003’s were limited to the Director’s “Best Of” house, wherein I believe the referenced films were not “officially” named. I’m not trying to deny that they were involved in the event back then, but I’d be willing to bet that the number of IP houses in the first half of the event’s run is a good bit less than the second half. Also, did they ever use non-Universal IP’s prior to 2007? I’m thinking not, but am admittedly not sure.

 

[Legacy]

I’ll partially agree and partially disagree. Back then, IP’s we’re a possibility whereas now they’re a certainty. For the record, I have no problem whatsoever with this. I consider 2005 my first true year of attending the event, and there were no IP houses that year. I believe that was also true of 2004, and I think that 2003’s were limited to the Director’s “Best Of” house, wherein I believe the referenced films were not “officially” named. I’m not trying to deny that they were involved in the event back then, but I’d be willing to bet that the number of IP houses in the first half of the event’s run is a good bit less than the second half. Also, did they ever use non-Universal IP’s prior to 2007? I’m thinking not, but am admittedly not sure.

They were a certainty.

Pick a random year, chances are good there's an IP. If you don't count the Monsters as an IP (and ignore the rip-offs), there are seven years with "no IPs" (1991, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005). If you count the Universal Monsters as IPs, then it drops to four (1991, 2003, 2004, 2005).

And then, if you count rip-off IPs, the only year with no "IP" houses was... 1991.

And let's not dive into repeats/returning houses.

 

[pat_naughty05]

They were a certainty.

Pick a random year, chances are good there's an IP. If you don't count the Monsters as an IP (and ignore the rip-offs), there are seven years with "no IPs" (1991, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005). If you count the Universal Monsters as IPs, then it drops to four (1991, 2003, 2004, 2005).

And then, if you count rip-off IPs, the only year with no "IP" houses was... 1991.

And let's not dive into repeats/returning houses.

I look at IP houses as those that bear the name of the IP as that seems to be the simplest way to define it (I acknowledge that this is only my definition born of my perspective). If I look at it that way, then in the first 15 years of the event, IP’s we’re present roughly half the time. In my personal opinion, that places them outside of the realm of being a certainty. Saying that they were likely to be included would make sense, but that’s as far as I would take it. Conversely, from 2006 forward, they have been a certainty, and beginning in 2007 they have been prominently featured in the marketing campaign most years (maybe every year?) to your point.

Either way, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here and acknowledge that some of this is a matter of perspective (whether or not Universal Monsters and “inspired by” houses are IP’s, etc.). The point that I initially hoped to make was yes, the event has changed, but that’s not a bad thing, and the people creating the event today are just as passionate as those creating it a decade or more ago.

 

[Mr. EPCOT]

To say that the event has gone downhill because there are no online games is literally crazy.

 

[IOA Explorer]

To say that the event has gone downhill because there are no online games is literally crazy.

Nobody said anything about online games. They were stupid anyway.

 

[Miketheboss]

To say that the event has gone downhill because there are no online games is literally crazy.

Once again, instead of grasping the full message, most of you are just focusing on tidbits. I believe the creator of this thread doesn't have a problem with IP's. Neither do I. Where my concern lies is how nearly everything besides the houses has decreased in creativity, grandeur, and an overarching theme. In reality this year we only have two and a half scare zones. One with a UFO and a truck (Great for a zone that is 30 feet long), Trick 'r Treat, and the other one with recycled Purge props from years past. You all can say that I'm being ridiculous but you can't deny that the HHN website is wack, the "theme" or lack there of is non existent, food items have decreased, etc.


I miss the days when a HHN commercial would come on at 1am and I had to change the channel if not I'd have trouble sleeping.

 

[P@n!K_Sw1tC#]

^ He's right. It's not about the IP houses - after all, that's what puts the Universal in Universal's Halloween Horror Nights. It's about the extras, enhancements, storytelling, and cohesiveness that earned past events the title of the best haunt in the world.

And for as much as some of you would like to brush off the front entrance/gate aesthetics as a waste of time and money, it's what ties the whole event together. There's no real theme this year - it's just the HHN brand on its own, and I think that's what some people are missing (as am I).

The last time it felt unified under one story was for the 25th year - and the Jack stage show really tied the whole thing together. I'd like to see more of that.

 

[Legacy]

Once again, instead of grasping the full message, most of you are just focusing on tidbits. I believe the creator of this thread doesn't have a problem with IP's. Neither do I. Where my concern lies is how nearly everything besides the houses has decreased in creativity, grandeur, and an overarching theme. In reality this year we only have two and a half scare zones. One with a UFO and a truck (Great for a zone that is 30 feet long), Trick 'r Treat, and the other one with recycled Purge props from years past. You all can say that I'm being ridiculous but you can't deny that the HHN website is wack, the "theme" or lack there of is non existent, food items have decreased, etc.


I miss the days when a HHN commercial would come on at 1am and I had to change the channel if not I'd have trouble sleeping.

I highlighted the key point of your post, not because it's a "tidbit," but because it encapsulates your entire argument succinctly.

Here's the refutation: The event still requires just as much creativity, effort, and scale as previous years. You just don't like the product as it is. My point remains that product changed because everything changes. It's not a decrease in quality or effort. It's not lesser. If it was lesser, it wouldn't continue to be successful. It's shifted. That's all.

Are you going to say Academy of Villains (like them or not) is at fault for a "lesser" product because a storm damaged their stage, or are you going to recognize that they had to prioritize, adjust, and adapt based on what they had available to them? It's not as grand. It's shorter. The whole "Afterlife" theme had to disappear.

Just as much effort was put into Festival of the Deadliest as Invasion. It has large set-pieces, effects, original costumes, etc. You dismiss it as not even a zone though because you don't like it. And if your argument is that you went too early in the run to see the center float set-piece, it's been established that Irma effected that entire zone.

Objectively, the argument that the event has "decreased in quality" or is "less creative" or "worst" is flat incorrect. The event remains insanely profitable and successful. There are more options for what to do at the event. Guest satisfaction remains high. Those are all key data points that refute the idea that it has gone backwards. Backstage management, conflicts, and issues aside, the event from a product perspective is better than ever.

Subjectively, you don't like the product because it's different from what you want.

 

[TDBLMT]

To say that the event has gone downhill because there are no online games is literally crazy.

Let’s gladly redirect those folks

Welcome to Neopets!
wwww.miniclip.com

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Nobody said anything about online games. They were stupid anyway.

Lots do and it has been brought up in this thread already. It is a component of some complaints about the modern event, deserved or not.

 

[Mr. EPCOT]

Once again, instead of grasping the full message, most of you are just focusing on tidbits. I believe the creator of this thread doesn't have a problem with IP's. Neither do I. Where my concern lies is how nearly everything besides the houses has decreased in creativity, grandeur, and an overarching theme. In reality this year we only have two and a half scare zones. One with a UFO and a truck (Great for a zone that is 30 feet long), Trick 'r Treat, and the other one with recycled Purge props from years past. You all can say that I'm being ridiculous but you can't deny that the HHN website is wack, the "theme" or lack there of is non existent, food items have decreased, etc.


I miss the days when a HHN commercial would come on at 1am and I had to change the channel if not I'd have trouble sleeping.

The event has evolved. It's hard to argue overall quality has decreased when they have obviously poured tons of money into the houses, which are the point of the whole thing. They're the meat and potatoes of the event. No, they're not doing a big theme or elaborate entrance decorations or a stupid freaking elaborate website anymore. Those are all super minor details in the scheme of things, though. The website is BEYOND irrelevant. It's not an integral part of the event by any stretch of the imagination. It's there as a convenient avenue for Joe Schmo to buy ticket packages. Interactive goodies are just a treat for megafans. Citing that as an example of decline in quality AT ALL is completely bananapants. To do so just undermines the rest of your argument. I'll give you that some of the scare zones recently have been disappointing in terms of set pieces and atmosphere, but they are absolutely LOADED with scareactors now. So the quality has not declined, just shifted. No worse, just different. Personally, I love seeing how HHN evolves over time. If it was just stuck in the same format year after year, I probably wouldn't be as invested in it. I can't wait to see how it continues to change. Maybe they'll do a mega-scarezone like they've done a mega-house. Maybe it'll go back to two parks. Maybe they'll do some kind of attraction overlay. Maybe they'll add the Death Eater stuff from Japan. There are endless possibilities.

Also, they just added a ton of unique new food options this year, on top of a bunch of the staples like twisted taters and funnel cake bites, so... gurl, you cray.

^ He's right. It's not about the IP houses - after all, that's what puts the Universal in Universal's Halloween Horror Nights. It's about the extras, enhancements, storytelling, and cohesiveness that earned past events the title of the best haunt in the world.

And for as much as some of you would like to brush off the front entrance/gate aesthetics as a waste of time and money, it's what ties the whole event together. There's no real theme this year - it's just the HHN brand on its own, and I think that's what some people are missing (as am I).

The last time it felt unified under one story was for the 25th year - and the Jack stage show really tied the whole thing together. I'd like to see more of that.

Honestly, I love the idea of a unifying theme for the event, but I really don't think it's actually ever been truly fully executed. They've had strong icons and themes, but you just kind of forget about it as you traverse most of the park. I've never gotten a sense of cohesiveness through the whole event before. A theme would really make more of an impact to me if all of the houses, scare zones, and shows were either clearly connected to each other story-wise or otherwise have some kind of pattern. Thus far the themes have just been more of a motif.

I would love if they still did the elaborate entrance decorations, like I loved the year they had the circus stuff up with the Ferris wheel, but I suspect the primary purpose of that stuff was to drive front gate ticket sales from casual day guests. If that's the case, that wouldn't be needed so much anymore with the mega-popularity of HHN now. It is a detail I miss, certainly, but not one that is damning of the entire event.

 

[Skubersky]

Well this group of people don’t seem to care as much as compared to T.J., Roddy, and the rest of that team. This team cares more about the product and less about it as an event.

You are new here so I’m going to go easy on you. But let me just say that I personally know and have worked alongside all of these people you are talking about, and to say any of them doesn’t “care” about their work is a vicious slander and completely uncalled for.

I’ve publicly criticized Aiello&Horne et al for some things at HHN, but I have enough wisdom and experience to know the flaws are a result of balancing the realities of finance/safety/efficiency vs creativity, NOT because of a lack of passion.

You talk like you know what goes on inside these people’s heads, but they are just names to you — to me they are real human beings with feelings and families, who just happen to be paid to do something I’m sure you wish you were capable of. You may want to consider that the next time you sit down to write a long personal attack on people you don’t really know, and use that time more productively for self-improvement instead.

/end_of_rant

 

[P@n!K_Sw1tC#]

I wouldn't go so far to call it vicious slander, but you can definitely see a difference in product/result as the event grows older. Gone are the days of original characters, original event themes, and actual scare zones and In are the generous amount of IP houses (which are fine and do well with the audience), selfie zones, and an event branded on its own name.

The evolution reminds me of WWE's Wrestlemania. They'll sell out the event solely on the name - rather than the list of wrestling matches that are on the card. People know what to expect - and most of the emphasis is placed on the brand recognition to drive butts in seats. Probably a poor comparison - but it's the only thing I can think of that has evolved and grown the way HHN seems to be heading.

I'm most excited for next year - and am hoping for completely new house locations to really shake up the status quo of the event.

 

[Skubersky]

I wouldn't go so far to call it vicious slander, but you can definitely see a difference in product/result as the event grows older. Gone are the days of original characters, original event themes, and actual scare zones and In are the generous amount of IP houses (which are fine and do well with the audience), selfie zones, and an event branded on its own name.

The evolution reminds me of WWE's Wrestlemania. They'll sell out the event solely on the name - rather than the list of wrestling matches that are on the card. People know what to expect - and most of the emphasis is placed on the brand recognition to drive butts in seats. Probably a poor comparison - but it's the only thing I can think of that has evolved and grown the way HHN seems to be heading.

I'm most excited for next year - and am hoping for completely new house locations to really shake up the status quo of the event.

I’ve got no problem with criticizing (or even simply complaining) about the way the event has evolved. My problem is calling out people by name and personally blaming their “laziness” or “lack of creativity” for changes someone disagrees with. It betrays a fundamental misunderstanding about what being a creative in a large corporation is all about.

 

[P@n!K_Sw1tC#]

^Can't argue with that, I agree with you. Just hope it wasn't meant as it came off, for his sake.