Pandora: The World of Avatar Announcement, Construction, & Preview Discussion

[twebber55]

If they open the land right now most of the chips will fall in a big heap on the ground because they haven't finished putting up handrails yet.

whats your point?

eye candy like this will sell with the public

 

[deathcab4cutie]

does ak even sell chips for some reason now i want chips

 

[rhino4evr]

Avatar land will be a great addition, does it really matter how much it cost, and whether it was their best use of capital? It was always going to be a big risk. If the land takes off, and the sequels breed a fan following, it could pay off massively in the future. It's a gamble, but at least Disney saw it through all the development troubles.

 

[GadgetGuru]

(What follows is a rough rough draft of a post I'm working on for OU, responses will be incorporated in and nothing is final. I will remove pronouns, clarify, and put into some logical order.)

We're disagreeing on the average guests' interest in these things. Since day one DAK has had issues with guests going attraction to attraction and skipping the smaller experiences. Disney has tried many ways to get guests into the trails and other non traditional experiences in the park to minimal success. I believe guests are looking for things to do and justify their time at DAK while at other parks (minus DHS) they're entertained till they leave. I think Avatar /ROL will be the attractions people are looking for more like what Mermaid, TSMM, and Monsters Inc were at DCA and not the day shifting experience Carsland/WoC at DCA was. Disney has set the DCA redo as the benchmark for this and it follows a similar model, but I don't think this will match their expectations (despite whatever they say in public).

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Disney's been looking for a very long time to add IP to the park, and in that plot in particular; one of their Harry Potter pitches was for that area. When Universal refused to give Cameron more than just one ride replacing T2 for Avatar, Disney came in and got the rights thinking they got a similar coup to Universal getting Potter.

But then Cameron became demanding, the movie didn't develop merchandise legs, the movie's public narrative switched, and the costs of design changes after bids went out kept adding up. Right now Rivers of Light and Avatar cost a billion dollars. Mermaid, WoC, Paradise Pier changes, BvS, and Carsland cost that much at DCA. Down the street the combined costs of Hogsmeade, Diagon Alley, and Hogwarts Express/London don't add up to 3/4ths of the cost of Avatar/RoL. This isn't Disney spending money effectively and putting more in for a better product, this is them constantly wasting it and not meeting expectations. Rivers of Light got a late game cash infusion because Staggs was not happy with what he saw, saying it was not the project he green lit for way less money.

Over the Christmas holiday Olivander's at USH made over one million dollars in wand sales in a week. ONE WEEK. That's the historic expectation and budgeting Disney has placed on Avatar/RoL projects and no one in their right minds thinks it'll touch that. There are people on here who say costs don't matter but they do; Everest didn't see the return on investment DAK was looking for and as such they passed on several new attractions and lands until Avatar was forced by the Board of Directors. I expect Epcot's additions and plans for the 50th will be hit the hardest if DAK and WDW don't see the returns they want.

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Because I question Disney's justification and expectations does not dampen my expectations. I am excited to see this project open, experience it myself, and develop my own critiques just as I have with Kong, Diagon, Mermaid, SDMT, and more. But we cannot ignore or escape the fact this land is deeply entwined with expectations of Potter level per guest spending boosts, attendance boosts, guests staying longer in the park, and that Disney's "sticking" it to Universal.

I expect there will be fans of this land, I expect people will say they prefer it to Diagon Alley, and I expect some will come for opening day as Avatar fans. I expect the attractions will be fun, engaging, and good. I bet the food will be good, the drinks boozy, and the merch creative. But that's not enough to guarantee continued expansion and updates to WDW.

Great rough draft! I think it's important to remember that Fox (and hopefully Disney) think that Avatar is a rising IP. There's going be to another four movies sometime before we all die. Disney has to be looking at this with some of that in mind. I would expect they want a relatively large bump, but could rationalize it when it's not a Potter-sized bump. Once the new movies come out and they can do cross-promotion, I would expect Disney wants to see strong yearly growth driven by Avatar.

 

[Brian G.]

Avatar land will be a great addition, does it really matter how much it cost, and whether it was their best use of capital? It was always going to be a big risk. If the land takes off, and the sequels breed a fan following, it could pay off massively in the future. It's a gamble, but at least Disney saw it through all the development troubles.

Well, this is a discussion board.

 

[epcyclopedia]

It matters because the powers-that-be will blame every other factor if it fails other than their own lapse in judgement. Soft economy, soft tourism, soft weather, soft bunnies.

Anything but their inability to clue in as much as the average internet fanboy that this was probably a bad idea.

See: ROL and M:S for examples of both recent and historical wastes of money that they take zero responsibility for.

 

[epcyclopedia]

And our discussion here and elsewhere proves it could, in fact, have been forseen.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

It matters because the powers-that-be will blame every other factor if it fails other than their own lapse in judgement. Soft economy, soft tourism, soft weather, soft bunnies.

Anything but their inability to clue in as much as the average internet fanboy that this was probably a bad idea.

See: ROL and M:S for examples of both recent and historical wastes of money that they take zero responsibility for.

And those hurt will be the guests with fewer new attractions because they think guests aren't interested, they don't recoup the capital, or any other reasons.

 

[epcyclopedia]

And those hurt will be the guests with fewer new attractions because they think guests aren't interested, they don't recoup the capital, or any other reasons.

Legit. How long did they avoid building because WDW was a "mature market" incapable of growth? That's not because new people wouldn't show up, but because their offerings were lackluster.

 

[GadgetGuru]

I'm actually a little bullish on Avatar.

I think very few people in the fan community would say that Avatar Land doesn't look cool. Forget about costs, or IP, or anything like that. It's going to be a cool theme park land and I'm sure most of us are excited to go experience it.

Most of the fan community doesn't like Avatar because we think Disney has too much riding on it. We think that Avatar is going to be the new #ThanksShanghai that causes development to stop at WDW. We don't believe that Avatar has enough to bring people to the parks and will do enough to let Disney keep building.

The fact is, a lot of this is a marketing problem, not a land development / capital / Disney problem. The last large development at AK was Everest, which wasn't based on an IP and created a large bump for that park. The fact is, if Disney markets this well and provides a good experience, they'll see a bump. There's a whole bunch of forces that will impact WDW's future plans and Avatar isn't that high on the list (political + economic issues, ESPN, Iger's departure, DVC sales + construction, Universal's numbers, etc, etc)

 

[rhino4evr]

yikes jump down my throat why don't ya.

Disney is building these attractions because they realize they are being outclassed down the street.

 

[UAN17]

Woah I thought it was Disney fans who were meant to be bitter about Universals recent success? These last few pages read VERY defensive.

The land looks awesome. Accept it, knowing that a strong Disney will only force Universal to up their game again.

 

[Miketheboss]

When Universal built the WWOHP, wasn't there only one Harry Potter movie left to be released? Wouldn't it have been cooler if the land was built during the 4th or 5th sequel? Avatar Land seems like its going to be great regardless of the sequels but imagine if the sequels are a success. It's a gamble.

Also, someone brought up marketing. I expect to see a crazy amount of marketing/ads within the next month or so. This will end up on cereal boxes and on the Disney Channel, guaranteed. Disney can open a new hotdog cart and thousands come so I think summer at AK is going to be insanely crowded. This IP was a perfect fit for Animal Kingdom.

 

[shiekra38]

I'm actually a little bullish on Avatar.

I think very few people in the fan community would say that Avatar Land doesn't look cool. Forget about costs, or IP, or anything like that. It's going to be a cool theme park land and I'm sure most of us are excited to go experience it.

Most of the fan community doesn't like Avatar because we think Disney has too much riding on it. We think that Avatar is going to be the new #ThanksShanghai that causes development to stop at WDW. We don't believe that Avatar has enough to bring people to the parks and will do enough to let Disney keep building.

The fact is, a lot of this is a marketing problem, not a land development / capital / Disney problem. The last large development at AK was Everest, which wasn't based on an IP and created a large bump for that park. The fact is, if Disney markets this well and provides a good experience, they'll see a bump. There's a whole bunch of forces that will impact WDW's future plans and Avatar isn't that high on the list (political + economic issues, ESPN, Iger's departure, DVC sales + construction, Universal's numbers, etc, etc)

Avatar was a knee jerk reaction by Iger that was shoehorned into AK and is attempting to capitalize on the Potter formula...I think fans put it down because it was such a quick and clearly grasping at straws decision...It was very odd from the beginning..

It will be a highly themed, well designed, knee jerk reaction from the higher ups...Avatar isn't Disney, Has little pop culture impact, and only had one film...Better make it a theme park land

I bet if this was Beastly Kingdom or an original concept the conversations would be very different

Woah I thought it was Disney fans who were meant to be bitter about Universals recent success? These last few pages read VERY defensive.

The land looks awesome. Accept it, knowing that a strong Disney will only force Universal to up their game again.

Nobody is saying it doesn't look good..And if someone is, they are wrong...It just isn't a very Disney decision

 

[twebber55]

Avatar was a knee jerk reaction by Iger that was shoehorned into AK and is attempting to capitalize on the Potter formula...I think fans put it down because it was such a quick and clearly grasping at straws decision...It was very odd from the beginning..

It will be a highly themed, well designed, knee jerk reaction from the higher ups...Avatar isn't Disney, Has little pop culture impact, and only had one film...Better make it a theme park land

I bet if this was Beastly Kingdom or an original concept the conversations would be very different

Nobody is saying it doesn't look good..And if someone is, they are wrong...It just isn't a very Disney decision

so you are saying if there never was an avatar movie and disney designed the land exactly the same nobody would complain?

 

[Miketheboss]

I bet if this was Beastly Kingdom or an original concept the conversations would be very different

I've seen the old concept art for Beastly Kingdom and I'd take Avatar Land. Pandora is essentially what Beastly kingdom was going to have, dragons (banshees). Beastly Kingdom could've been really corny, not what AK is about.

 

[twebber55]

When Universal built the WWOHP, wasn't there only one Harry Potter movie left to be released? Wouldn't it have been cooler if the land was built during the 4th or 5th sequel? Avatar Land seems like its going to be great regardless of the sequels but imagine if the sequels are a success. It's a gamble.

Also, someone brought up marketing. I expect to see a crazy amount of marketing/ads within the next month or so. This will end up on cereal boxes and on the Disney Channel, guaranteed. Disney can open a new hotdog cart and thousands come so I think summer at AK is going to be insanely crowded. This IP was a perfect fit for Animal Kingdom.

yes this is a very proactive approach to building a land off of an IP, it will be interesting to see what happens. ill trust the history of success James Cameron has had

 

[Andysol]

I've seen the old concept art for Beastly Kingdom and I'd take Avatar Land. Pandora is essentially what Beastly kingdom was going to have, dragons (banshees). Beastly Kingdom could've been really corny, not what AK is about.

I agree with this completely. Pandora is going to be off the charts ridiculous. I'm bullish on it also. Hell- I'm buying a day pass to Animal Kingdom in July just because I'll be driving through Orlando and I want to see it. That's $400 for my family to see a land based on a movie I don't even care about. But the land, I truly believe, is going to be the best out of any park in the entire world.

 

[Miketheboss]

BTW, do people really believe Avatar Land was a "knee jerk" reaction. A billion dollar investment is going to be thoroughly examined. Sure, it was a move to compete with universal but to call it knee jerk is illogical. No company spends that much money without the input/thoughts of hundreds of professionals.

 

[UAN17]

People are getting (very selectively) obsessed with choice of IP.

Popeye bores me...but it's the best Rapids ride I've ever been on. Song of the South... Never seen it, never want too. Cars? Worst Pixar film of the lot. Never seen an episode of the twighlight zone. Aerosmith? Not that fussed. Transformers? An awful film franchise.

Stop talking about an IP in a theme park as if you have to love it to love the rides/area....because you're likely being a hypocrite.