Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[Skipper Justin]

Just wanted to say that the scenes on Crait were so beautiful. I loved the constrasting colors with the salt.

 

[SeventyOne]

SPOILER TIME

Spoiler

Now, the trilogy is not done so this kinda gets a pass but some more problems come from unanswered questions that could end up being ignored by trilogy's end.

Snoke. Really? We start getting a glimpse of what he can do and he's out. I feel the villains of this new trilogy have been pretty weak, save for Kylo - who even at times isn't an outright baddie until the very end. Anywho.. we still don't know who Snoke is, why he became Supreme guy, or much else except he's pretty good at the Force and lured Kylo.

Rey's lineage/importance. There was some setup in Ep 7 where some of the characters made a mention that Rey may be more important than she realizes besides being strong in the Force. In Ep 8, turns out she's just good at the Force and her parents sold her off because they were scumbags. Could be a swerve until the next one?

Finn. Again. For someone who was conditioned/brain washed to be a Storm Trooper, it would've been nice to explore what made the lightbulb switch for him specifically except a "just cuz it's wrong". It seemed like they started to go down that path a bit with DJ on the "who really is good?" scenes, but ends up no where.

I came out of the theater enjoying it, but DANG there are some big issues.

Spoiler

Snoke apparently means nothing? All that hype in TFA for literally nothing. Luke's light-saber also teased for being hugely significant, also apparently means nothing now. Rose's character was so forced it was completely unnecessary. They made Finn so likable in TFA then they poop on him and his chemistry with Rey with this meaningless mission with meaningless partner.

My first thought coming out of the theater ... why did they ret-con this movie? Spoilering out of an abundance of caution:

Spoiler

The first two plot points you mention in your spoiler--those were the two main questions of the first movie. The first is never answered, the second feels like a cop-out. "Rey's parents' spaceship blew up on the way to their home planet." Whatever they were building to, it feels like they abandoned it to make Kylo into the combined Emperor/Vader figure pop culture always wanted Vader to be anyway.

I don't believe either of these was intended when TFA was released. It feels like a major course correction, and just gives the film a sense of whiplash.

As for Finn, I initially assumed sending him off-world on a side quest and giving him a girlfriend was a way to stop the Poe/Finn shippers in their tracks. But then Brienne of Tarth literally phoned in her cameo (no way she was on set) and poof! her character is written out. Went nowhere. Had no purpose. Doesn't help that Finn and Rose continue the Star Wars tradition of not being able to act their way out of a paper bag.

Also, not getting the "this is a different kind of Star Wars" argument. The non-Force user storyline is straight out of Rebels. Poe is Ezra. The humor, conflict with a maternal figure, the lack of real consequences, everything. In fact, the narrative steals two plot developments directly from Rebels (the cartoon did them better).

 

[jtsalien]

My first thought coming out of the theater ... why did they ret-con this movie? Spoilering out of an abundance of caution:

Spoiler

The first two plot points you mention in your spoiler--those were the two main questions of the first movie. The first is never answered, the second feels like a cop-out. "Rey's parents' spaceship blew up on the way to their home planet." Whatever they were building to, it feels like they abandoned it to make Kylo into the combined Emperor/Vader figure pop culture always wanted Vader to be anyway.

I don't believe either of these was intended when TFA was released. It feels like a major course correction, and just gives the film a sense of whiplash.

As for Finn, I initially assumed sending him off-world on a side quest and giving him a girlfriend was a way to stop the Poe/Finn shippers in their tracks. But then Brienne of Tarth literally phoned in her cameo (no way she was on set) and poof! her character is written out. Went nowhere. Had no purpose. Doesn't help that Finn and Rose continue the Star Wars tradition of not being able to act their way out of a paper bag.

Also, not getting the "this is a different kind of Star Wars" argument. The non-Force user storyline is straight out of Rebels. Poe is Ezra. The humor, conflict with a maternal figure, the lack of real consequences, everything. In fact, the narrative steals two plot developments directly from Rebels (the cartoon did them better).

Question for those that have seen it...

Spoiler

Do we think Kylo was telling the truth about Reys parents? I want to say no, that he was just manipulating her. Saying you're nothing, let me help you be something. But the whole point of the movie seems to be that you don't need to be special to be the resistance.

I can't decide... And that' probably bad

 

[LieutLaww]

Spoiler

On the one hand as you say yes he could have been manipulating Rey to get her on his side but the flip side of that is the nothing special aspect of things that Luke was talking about, everyone can use the Force and they showed that right at the end of the movie with the young boy soooo....

 

[UNIrd]

Spoiler

I guess we'll find out the answers to your questions in Episode 9.. which allegedly no one cares to see.

 

[LieutLaww]

As no one wants to see it my local cinema has all 3 of its screens showing Last Jedi today all day.

 

[fryoj]

Spoiler

Another thing I've been thinking about. Was there any point to Finn and Rose being in the movie at all? I mean their story arc achieved absolutely nothing. They got off the ship, went and got a cracker/coder/whatever he was, got onto the First Order ship, and got all the way to the point where they were to achieve their goal, just for it to get stopped. Ate up easily 30 minutes of screen time for that deal. They didn't get killed there, but ended up killing Phasma, another irrelevant character. Then, they get to Crait, and have the whole battle scene, which, once again, really accomplished nothing because at the last second Rose stopped Finn from being the hero. They could have literally skipped the whole battle scene and still had Luke walk through the hole in the wall. I like the battle scene, but it just ends up being a vehicle to further Finnrose, so it takes away from it. I don't think we see what happens to DJ, so maybe they set him up for something important in 9. But with everything that happened, they spent too much screen time on a subplot that furthered the story none. In a move that drug through the middle anyway, they could have cleaned that up a whole lot.

 

[SeventyOne]

More thoughts that I don't see anyone in my admittedly limited universe raising ...

Spoiler

Outside of blowing up the JJA's Mystery Boxes--which much as I hate the idea of them you can't do once you've shown them to the audience--my biggest complaint is the tonal dissonance throughout the movie. Is it a hard PG-13 dissertation on the nature of evil and whether we can forgive a "good guy" who disobeys a direct order and kills off his squad or in a moment of fear almost murders his own nephew? Or is it a weightless cartoon where a character commits mutiny, but gets off in the end with a "you little scamp, you, I hope you learned a valuable lesson!" The casino is cartoony, the "free the animals and inspire little kids" subplot would feel more at home on a Disney Afternoon. But then we're back to suicide missions and supposed real stakes again. It just can't decide what the audience for a Star Wars movie is.

Also, if you're going to retire the Undertaker, you make sure he loses at WrestleMania before he does. Why kill Luke if you're not going to give Kylo the rub of killing two icons? Makes Kylo look incompetent, then dies for no reason on another planet. Zero stakes. Imagine Leia died early on, then Finn and Luke sacrifice themselves on Crait--stakes raised, power of the First Order clearly established, that's how you end a cliffhanger second entry. Instead this basically gave us status quo ante--a few unmanned ships blew up, but basically right where we were at the start of the movie.

 

[Brian G.]

More thoughts that I don't see anyone in my admittedly limited universe raising ...

Spoiler

Outside of blowing up the JJA's Mystery Boxes--which much as I hate the idea of them you can't do once you've shown them to the audience--my biggest complaint is the tonal dissonance throughout the movie. Is it a hard PG-13 dissertation on the nature of evil and whether we can forgive a "good guy" who disobeys a direct order and kills off his squad or in a moment of fear almost murders his own nephew? Or is it a weightless cartoon where a character commits mutiny, but gets off in the end with a "you little scamp, you, I hope you learned a valuable lesson!" The casino is cartoony, the "free the animals and inspire little kids" subplot would feel more at home on a Disney Afternoon. But then we're back to suicide missions and supposed real stakes again. It just can't decide what the audience for a Star Wars movie is.

Also, if you're going to retire the Undertaker, you make sure he loses at WrestleMania before he does. Why kill Luke if you're not going to give Kylo the rub of killing two icons? Makes Kylo look incompetent, then dies for no reason on another planet. Zero stakes. Imagine Leia died early on, then Finn and Luke sacrifice themselves on Crait--stakes raised, power of the First Order clearly established, that's how you end a cliffhanger second entry. Instead this basically gave us status quo ante--a few unmanned ships blew up, but basically right where we were at the start of the movie.

Spoiler

Kylo not killing Luke didn't bother me, but I will say if Snoke's "supremeness" was given more weight, that rub might have been all he needed.

As far as the Casino, as I've stated, the whole subplot is a joke. We get Maz thrown in cuz "remember her?" in a very campy cameo. Also, if this happens after TFA, I think it was a missed op to not address Han's passing since they apparently were very good friends. Anywho, she says only one guy can crack the code - THE MASTER CODEBREAKER....

but it turns out there's more than one guy that can crack the code, and they really don't make clear if he's the master codebreaker or not. Just a lot of huge flaws within that whole narrative. From beginning, to end, to who's included. Just, ugh...

The timing of everything seems off, too? It's not made clear if Rey's training is taking place the same time as the "Space's Slowest Chase". We know Rey spends several nights at Ahch-to, but it cuts between the chase which takes place not long after TFA and is within a 16-18 hour period of time.

 

[Skipper Justin]

Spoiler

Kylo not killing Luke didn't bother me, but I will say if Snoke's "supremeness" was given more weight, that rub might have been all he needed.

As far as the Casino, as I've stated, the whole subplot is a joke. We get Maz thrown in cuz "remember her?" in a very campy cameo. Also, if this happens after TFA, I think it was a missed op to not address Han's passing since they apparently were very good friends. Anywho, she says only one guy can crack the code - THE MASTER CODEBREAKER....

but it turns out there's more than one guy that can crack the code, and they really don't make clear if he's the master codebreaker or not. Just a lot of huge flaws within that whole narrative. From beginning, to end, to who's included. Just, ugh...

The timing of everything seems off, too? It's not made clear if Rey's training is taking place the same time as the "Space's Slowest Chase". We know Rey spends several nights at Ahch-to, but it cuts between the chase which takes place not long after TFA and is within a 16-18 hour period of time.

Spoiler

What if he was the master code breaker but lost his flower lapel in a game?

 

[Brian G.]

Spoiler

What if he was the master code breaker but lost his flower lapel in a game?

Nope. It’s been clarified since that he is a separate character.

 

[Skipper Justin]

Nope. It’s been clarified since that he is a separate character.

Where? I know the characters thought he was, but that’s all I saw.

 

[Brian G.]

Where? I know the characters thought he was, but that’s all I saw.

Various articles and official casting.

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

Put me in the camp that really enjoyed the movie! It's not as good as TFA, but I was always engaged with what was happening on screen.

 

[twebber55]

woof i thought it was pretty bad

 

[Nick]

Spoiler

Kylo not killing Luke didn't bother me, but I will say if Snoke's "supremeness" was given more weight, that rub might have been all he needed.

As far as the Casino, as I've stated, the whole subplot is a joke. We get Maz thrown in cuz "remember her?" in a very campy cameo. Also, if this happens after TFA, I think it was a missed op to not address Han's passing since they apparently were very good friends. Anywho, she says only one guy can crack the code - THE MASTER CODEBREAKER....

but it turns out there's more than one guy that can crack the code, and they really don't make clear if he's the master codebreaker or not. Just a lot of huge flaws within that whole narrative. From beginning, to end, to who's included. Just, ugh...

The timing of everything seems off, too? It's not made clear if Rey's training is taking place the same time as the "Space's Slowest Chase". We know Rey spends several nights at Ahch-to, but it cuts between the chase which takes place not long after TFA and is within a 16-18 hour period of time.

Spoiler

I will say, that Luke not actually being there took a bit of power out of the film. Yeah there was a loud ovation in the theater I watched when they showed him on the rock, but if they were dead set on killing off Luke, why not have him there?

By having him actually on Crait, it could've really progressed Kylo's character and made him more feared going into Episode 9. Just imagine if there was an epic Lightsaber battle and Kylo killed LUKE farfanooging SKYWALKER. That would show the raw power and abilities that Kylo has. Instead, we got Luke dying because he apparently used too much force energy (or something?).

 

[twebber55]

Question for those that have seen it...

Spoiler

Do we think Kylo was telling the truth about Reys parents? I want to say no, that he was just manipulating her. Saying you're nothing, let me help you be something. But the whole point of the movie seems to be that you don't need to be special to be the resistance.

I can't decide... And that' probably bad

i dont

 

[JunoSynth]

Spoiler: Spoiler

I think they can redeem this movie with the following.
Kylo was lying.
Snoke survives and takes the first order back.
Kylo and Rey team up, get trained by force ghost Luke and fight Snoke and the First order.

I think would satisfy me. lol....

 

[jtsalien]

Spoiler

I will say, that Luke not actually being there took a bit of power out of the film. Yeah there was a loud ovation in the theater I watched when they showed him on the rock, but if they were dead set on killing off Luke, why not have him there?

By having him actually on Crait, it could've really progressed Kylo's character and made him more feared going into Episode 9. Just imagine if there was an epic Lightsaber battle and Kylo killed LUKE farfanooging SKYWALKER. That would show the raw power and abilities that Kylo has. Instead, we got Luke dying because he apparently used too much force energy (or something?).

Spoiler

I don't think the movie saw it as "killing off Luke", is the thing. The way the movie played it, he's now at peace with the Force. For all those years he shut it out, but he used it to get closure with Leia and save what was left of the resistance. Luke will surely be back as a Yoda-like Force ghost, and potentially more next film. Hence, the "see you around kid" or whatever he throws at Kylo.

 

[fryoj]

I think they can redeem this movie with the following.
Kylo was lying.
Snoke survives and takes the first order back.
Kylo and Rey team up, get trained by force ghost Luke and fight Snoke and the First order.

I think would satisfy me. lol....

Only if we get a training montage with them in a cabin and snowy mountains done to Hearts on Fire.