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Theatrical Future/PVOD Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter quinnmac000
  • Start date Start date Apr 28, 2020
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joelbryant11

joelbryant11

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  • Dec 8, 2020
  • #721
RevFreako said:
And forty percent of the country straight up won't get it.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that will be the case, it will be a lower number than that. When it comes time to put up or shut up, more than 60% will take it. I think even in that study you’re referencing 10% that didn’t answer either way. So ultimately I think that number will be closer to 7 out of 10 will take the first round of vaccines. And for those that don’t take it, that’s a them problem. It’s not like the mask idiocy when it affects all of us if they don’t wear one. If they choose to not get the vaccine, it will largely only impact them since the vaccine will be protecting the rest of us. We don’t release winter tentpoles to streaming because some idiots don’t get a flu vaccine.
 
Nick

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  • Dec 8, 2020
  • #722
TheGentTrent said:
I wouldn't count on Legendary and Universal ever working together again. Their last deal ended real bitterly.
Click to expand...
Universal's relationship with AMC was pretty bad, too. Things change depending on the situation.
 
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OLSinFLA

OLSinFLA

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  • Dec 8, 2020
  • #723
NeonErmine said:
Nolan wanted TENET to do a theatrical release, and that failed. WB got spooked and had to adapt. Did WB do the best course of action? No of course not but they are bleeding money and needed a quick fix which they did with HBO Max. I like Nolan's movies but the fact that he's mad that nobody wanted to see movies during a pandemic is ridiculous.
Now if I were talking about the other problems such as Legendary being pissed off I totally agree with them, but Nolan does not have a good case other than "movies at home are not the true cinema experience."
Click to expand...
Nolan wanted a theater release. But he didn't say release it right now. That was WB's decision because they figured it was a big enough film to draw people. Nolan shoots for a big big screen experience. Plus TV/Streaming and theatrical films are very different in terms of cinematoraphy. The simple rule (obviously there are exceptions) is TV/Streaming is a closeup/medium shot product and film is a medium shot/long shot one. A close up looks hideous on a 100 ft screen. A panaromic like "Lawrence of Arabia" looks empty on a phone/TV
 
OLSinFLA

OLSinFLA

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  • Dec 8, 2020
  • #724
TheGentTrent said:
I wouldn't count on Legendary and Universal ever working together again. Their last deal ended real bitterly.
Click to expand...
The only thing to count on in show business is to not count on anything. If its to their advantage, they will.
 
Tristan

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  • #725
OLSinFLA said:
[Nolan wanted a theater release. But he didn't say release it right now. That was WB's decision because they figured it was a big enough film to draw people.]
Click to expand...
Nolan was a big force to push for theathrical release
 
Nick

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  • #726
OLSinFLA said:
Nolan wanted a theater release. But he didn't say release it right now. That was WB's decision because they figured it was a big enough film to draw people. Nolan shoots for a big big screen experience. Plus TV/Streaming and theatrical films are very different in terms of cinematoraphy. The simple rule (obviously there are exceptions) is TV/Streaming is a closeup/medium shot product and film is a medium shot/long shot one. A close up looks hideous on a 100 ft screen. A panaromic like "Lawrence of Arabia" looks empty on a phone/TV
Click to expand...
He did want to release it during the summer. He said he wanted to be the box office savior. That was his whole shtick.
 
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RevFreako

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  • #727
rageofthegods said:
They're not gonna get first, second or fourth pick on projects or packages after this either, are they?
Click to expand...
I
Nick said:
He did want to release it during the summer. I said he wanted to be the box office savior. That was his whole shtick.
Click to expand...
Which, I realize there are some big Nolan fans here, but he isn't the savior of anything. Far outkicked his coverage with Tenet.
 
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Clive

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  • Dec 8, 2020
  • #728
You have to understand that many of these filmmakers specifically elected to work with Warner Bros, denying splashy deals from Netflix and Amazon, because they wanted the theatrical experience. You can say theatrical is dead and that these filmmakers aren't getting with the times, but those were the deals that were forged.

A once-in-a-lifetime pandemic is absolutely a valid reason to reevaluate your release strategy. It might even constitute force majeure depending on the wording of the contract. But you absolutely need to speak to and negotiate with filmmakers, talent, and their representatives when making decisions like this. It isn't just because it's good business sense - I can't emphasize to you how much ire there is around town right now directed at WB - it also represents a substantial liability. Many of these deals are structured in ways where talent compensation is tied to box office milestones and residuals. By moving everything to streaming without renegotiating or buying out these deals, you are potentially monetarily screwing the A-level talent that these projects are built around. In the past, pivots to streaming have required buying out residuals and milestones of that level of talent. As has already been reported, completely failing to even consider it will lead to messy but justified legal action.

And by the way, I'm not even talking about Nolan, who absolutely overplayed his hand with Tenet. I'm talking about the five dozen other filmmakers and A-list performers, plus their agencies, who are now foaming at the mouth.

This is absolutely the work of AT&T looking to transform a legacy studio into a content loss leader. It may be a short-term win for the consumer (and believe me, I'm excited to theoretically see these films next year regardless of what happens with the pandemic), but I would not be viewing Warner Media as some strategic visionary here. This reads as a desperation Hail Mary pass.
 
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Cup_Of_Coffee

Cup_Of_Coffee

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  • Dec 8, 2020
  • #729
Clive said:
You have to understand that many of these filmmakers specifically elected to work with Warner Bros, denying splashy deals from Netflix and Amazon, because they wanted the theatrical experience. You can say theatrical is dead and that these filmmakers aren't getting with the times, but those were the deals that were forged.

A once-in-a-lifetime pandemic is absolutely a valid reason to reevaluate your release strategy. It might even constitute force majeure depending on the wording of the contract. But you absolutely need to speak to and negotiate with filmmakers, talent, and their representatives when making decisions like this. It isn't just because it's good business sense - I can't emphasize to you how much ire there is around town right now directed at WB - it also represents a substantial liability. Many of these deals are structured in ways where talent compensation is tied to box office milestones and residuals. By moving everything to streaming without renegotiating or buying out these deals, you are potentially monetarily screwing the A-level talent that these projects are built around. In the past, pivots to streaming have required buying out residuals and milestones of that level of talent. As has already been reported, completely failing to even consider it will lead to messy but justified legal action.

And by the way, I'm not even talking about Nolan, who absolutely overplayed his hand with Tenet. I'm talking about the five dozen other filmmakers and A-list performers, plus their agencies, who are now foaming at the mouth.

This is absolutely the work of AT&T looking to transform a legacy studio into a content loss leader. It may be a short-term win for the consumer (and believe me, I'm excited to theoretically see these films next year regardless of what happens with the pandemic), but I would not be viewing Warner Media as some strategic visionary here. This reads as a desperation Hail Mary pass.
Click to expand...
You said it way better than I ever could lol
 
quinnmac000

quinnmac000

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  • Dec 9, 2020
  • #730
www.hollywoodreporter.com

Sources: Directors Guild Rebukes Warner Bros. in Sharply Worded Letter Criticizing Streaming Plan

Days after WarnerMedia’s reveal that it would premiere its entire 2021 slate of 17 films on HBO Max the same day the films hit theaters, the Directors Guild of America has sent a sharply worded letter to Warner Bros. CEO Ann Sarnoff.
www.hollywoodreporter.com www.hollywoodreporter.com

The saga continues
 
RevFreako

RevFreako

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  • Dec 9, 2020
  • #731
quinnmac000 said:
www.hollywoodreporter.com

Sources: Directors Guild Rebukes Warner Bros. in Sharply Worded Letter Criticizing Streaming Plan

Days after WarnerMedia’s reveal that it would premiere its entire 2021 slate of 17 films on HBO Max the same day the films hit theaters, the Directors Guild of America has sent a sharply worded letter to Warner Bros. CEO Ann Sarnoff.
www.hollywoodreporter.com www.hollywoodreporter.com

The saga continues
Click to expand...
Ah yes, the famous, toothless "strongly worded letter."
 
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Nick

Nick

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  • Dec 9, 2020
  • #732
RevFreako said:
Ah yes, the famous, toothless "strongly worded letter."
Click to expand...
But if the Directors guild and Writers guilds along with SAG work together as they often do and basically come together to say we're boycotting WB, then that would definitely pose a problem for WB.
 
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PerceptiveCoot

PerceptiveCoot

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  • Dec 9, 2020
  • #733
I'm just waiting to see where money moves around after all this. If it doesn't, well, nice knowing ya Warner Bros.
 
quinnmac000

quinnmac000

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  • Dec 10, 2020
  • #734
deadline.com

CAA Boss Richard Lovett To WarnerMedia’s Jason Kilar Over HBO Max: “Blindside Entirely Unacceptable To CAA And The Clients We Represent”

CAA Prexy Richard Lovett To WarnerMedia's Jason Kilar Over HBO Max Deal: "Blindside Entirely Unacceptable To CAA And The Clients We Represent"
deadline.com deadline.com

Talent Agencies coming for HBO Max
DGA has now issued a letter

deadline.com

DGA Tells WarnerMedia That Deal To Release 2021 Warner Bros Movie Slate On HBO Max Is “Unacceptable” – Read The Full Letter

The DGA has told WarnerMedia that its decision to release the full Warner Bros movie slate on HBO Max and in theaters next year is "unacceptable"
deadline.com deadline.com

Essentially DGA is arguing directors are getting underpaid what they deserve even under the new deals being signed and DGA won't accept it.

WarnerMedia’s reversal on theatrical release patterns, not only restricts our members’ ability to have their films seen in the manner in which they were intended, it also affects their income. With respect to the latter, the DGA’s residuals formula for feature films are based upon a percentage of gross receipts paid to the Director, in some instances members of the directorial team, and our pension plan. The Guild is concerned about the manner in which the rights to the feature films were provided to HBO Max, the valuation methodology, and the implications of such transfer pricing to the long term valuation of the asset. Accordingly the DGA must take steps to protect its members.

The Guild has discussed the issues raised by the day-and-date releases with the agents and representatives of the affected Directors. We are aware Warner Bros. has made a proposal on how it intends to impute a license fee for the HBO Max simultaneous release for the purposes of determining profit participations. That proposal would result in an unacceptable and inadequate valuation for the license fee. While the conversations with our members’ agents and representatives may focus on profit participation and similar issues, we want to be clear that the proposal, as we understand it, is inadequate as it relates to residuals payments, and is unacceptable to the DGA.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
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joelbryant11

joelbryant11

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  • Dec 10, 2020
  • #735


I get that everyone likes to dump on Chris Nolan for being kinda snobby, but a renowned filmmaker like Denis saying this as the director of one of the movies impacted is a big deal.
 
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Nick

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  • Dec 11, 2020
  • #736
It's so interesting how WB basically just said "screw it, everything for 2021 is going on HBO Max and we're not gonna tell anyone!" and how Disney really is taking a half-measure apprach and only pulling films that in all honesty, probably were gonna be box office bombs anyway. And on top of that, they are still sticking by Premiere Access with Raya along with a pretty sizeable theatrical slate when you count in the fox films, too.

2021 is going to be a really telling year when it comes to the future of the blockbuster movie. WB seems to want to present blockbusters direct-to-consumer whereas Disney wants to do a lot of DTC stuff, but is sticking with theatrical model for their blockbuster films.
 
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rageofthegods

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  • Dec 11, 2020
  • #737
joelbryant11 said:


I get that everyone likes to dump on Chris Nolan for being kinda snobby, but a renowned filmmaker like Denis saying this as the director of one of the movies impacted is a big deal.
Click to expand...


Gotta say, it was a real trip watching film fans on Twitter who blasted Nolan not two days ago taking Denis's side for giving functionally the same statement.
 
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PerceptiveCoot

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  • Dec 11, 2020
  • #738
Nick said:
It's so interesting how WB basically just said "screw it, everything for 2021 is going on HBO Max and we're not gonna tell anyone!" and how Disney really is taking a half-measure apprach and only pulling films that in all honesty, probably were gonna be box office bombs anyway. And on top of that, they are still sticking by Premiere Access with Raya along with a pretty sizeable theatrical slate when you count in the fox films, too.

2021 is going to be a really telling year when it comes to the future of the blockbuster movie. WB seems to want to present blockbusters direct-to-consumer whereas Disney wants to do a lot of DTC stuff, but is sticking with theatrical model for their blockbuster films.
Click to expand...
The difference seems to be Disney has DTC content developed exclusively for the platform alongside a robust theatrical slate. HBO Max either doesn't have those shows or hasn't marketed them well enough. If shows aren't driving their service, then something else has to. This might also be a consequence of Warners saying, we don't have the shows to support this service, so we need the movies to fill in for us.

EDIT: Oh damn, Dennis actually wrote that. He even claims Warner might have killed the Dune franchise. Damn, that's gotta suck. Really hope Legendary decides to sue and that he gets the financial success he deserves.
 
belloq87

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  • Dec 11, 2020
  • #739
Nick said:
It's so interesting how WB basically just said "screw it, everything for 2021 is going on HBO Max and we're not gonna tell anyone!" and how Disney really is taking a half-measure apprach and only pulling films that in all honesty, probably were gonna be box office bombs anyway. And on top of that, they are still sticking by Premiere Access with Raya along with a pretty sizeable theatrical slate when you count in the fox films, too.

2021 is going to be a really telling year when it comes to the future of the blockbuster movie. WB seems to want to present blockbusters direct-to-consumer whereas Disney wants to do a lot of DTC stuff, but is sticking with theatrical model for their blockbuster films.
Click to expand...
It's almost like one company is taking a fairly rational, level-headed approach (say whatever we want about Chapek, but he's not the sort to truly want to upset the apple cart in some strident, immediate way), and the other is being totally reactionary because their execs come from a completely different business.

rageofthegods said:
Gotta say, it was a real trip watching film fans on Twitter who blasted Nolan not two days ago taking Denis's side for giving functionally the same statement.
Click to expand...
Funny how that works sometimes, isn't it? Double standards abound on Film Twitter!
 
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rageofthegods

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PerceptiveCoot said:
The difference seems to be Disney has DTC content developed exclusively for the platform alongside a robust theatrical slate. HBO Max either doesn't have those shows or hasn't marketed them well enough. If shows aren't driving their service, then something else has to. This might also be a consequence of Warners saying, we don't have the shows to support this service, so we need the movies to fill in for us.

EDIT: Oh damn, Dennis actually wrote that. He even claims Warner might have killed the Dune franchise. Damn, that's gotta suck. Really hope Legendary decides to sue and that he gets the financial success he deserves.
Click to expand...

Yah no negotiations can't be going well if CAA is handing out letters like the one quinnmac linked to its employees. Honestly this should've never escalated to this point. What a mess.
 
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