Universal Great Britain

[EllieB]

There must be an influencer who'd like to try this for science (and likes).

I would, but my biggest audience is about 230 followers on Threads so I'm not influencing anyone, haha!

Apologies if you’re already aware, the Eurostar terminal at St Pancras is about 100-150 meters from the the platforms that have trains from St Pancras to Bedford. These are the fast trains and easy to get to just up the escalators inside the station.

So it’s not to bad to switch trains as it is.

I am curious how quickly someone could get from say Paris to Bedford including the switch plus passport control at St Pancras etc.

 

[rob@rar]

I’d say that the chance of Eurostar running trains to Wixams to serve Universal is not practically zero, but precisely zero. Massive expense for very little gain given how well connected international rail travellers will be once the regular Wixams station is operational. As stated, it couldn’t be easier to connect to Midland Mainline services from the Eurostar terminus at St Pancras. No way Eurostar would invest in Wixams station to make that able to accommodate Eurostar trains and Eurostar passengers - not just immigration control, but security scanning, a separate lounge/waiting area just for international passengers, the need for massively long platforms, the need for a train depot near Wixams to store the Eurostar train between arrival and departure. It just makes no sense whatsoever given how much all this would cost for comparatively little gain. If Eurostar want to capitalise on the theme park market they could resurrect the Disneyland Paris service.

I am curious how quickly someone could get from say Paris to Bedford including the switch plus passport control at St Pancras etc.

I don’t think there are passport checks at St Pancras for inbound Eurostar passengers, those checks are done before you board the train in Paris, Lille, Brussels or Amsterdam. When you arrive at St Pancras you just get off the train and walk to whatever your next mode of transport is, whether that’s London Underground, rail services, taxi, whatever. It’s no different from any other train service. Different for outbound passengers as they have to go through security and passport checks (UK and French) before boarding the train at St Pancras.

 

[JT01]

I was more curious about where the rumors actually originated? After doing some research, it looks like Virgin is exploring the idea of launching trains to compete with Eurostar. Now, if these new Virgin trains were equipped with third-rail capability, theoretically they could run on the UK’s mainline railway network and utilise different routes. It also mean train stations would have to build passport control terminals to run this service.

Of course, this is all purely fantasy it’s unlikely to ever happen. Still, it’s such a shame that continental rail routes don’t extend further north into the UK. The Channel Tunnel has never really been used to its full potential, which is a missed opportunity in my opinion.

 

[yepthatguy]

I wonder if Universal have some themselves hidden.

Back To The Future's DeLorean has almost vanished from UK roads

"Where we're going, we don't need roads," said Doc Brown in Back To The Future, immortal words that now reflect the status of the DeLorean. The classic cars are largely consigned to collectors' garages, new figures show.

news.sky.com

 

[tommyhawkins]

I was more curious about where the rumors actually originated? After doing some research, it looks like Virgin is exploring the idea of launching trains to compete with Eurostar. Now, if these new Virgin trains were equipped with third-rail capability, theoretically they could run on the UK’s mainline railway network and utilise different routes. It also mean train stations would have to build passport control terminals to run this service.

Of course, this is all purely fantasy it’s unlikely to ever happen. Still, it’s such a shame that continental rail routes don’t extend further north into the UK. The Channel Tunnel has never really been used to its full potential, which is a missed opportunity in my opinion.

So if a train can physically get to St Pancras then theoretically it can get to whatever destinations originate from, but the Eurostar train runs a much bigger loading gauge than other UK trains (think of it like the reach envelope on roller coasters) so if there are any tunnels or bridges North of St Pancras these Eurostar trains are probably too thicc to fit. European trains are all bigger than UK ones if you haven't noticed. So unless a new operator (it was reported they finally putting contract capability to other other operators to break up Eurostar's monopoly) with trains that fit UK loading gauges then its impossible. At the end of the day the fact its so easy to connect from where HS1 terminates is good enough as it is.

Also any hotels north of Manor road are going to be about the same bus distance as cabana bay to City Walk, with much less traffic. so as much as the river idea is nice. its not going to be needed

 

[Jake S]

I wonder if Universal have some themselves hidden.

Back To The Future's DeLorean has almost vanished from UK roads

"Where we're going, we don't need roads," said Doc Brown in Back To The Future, immortal words that now reflect the status of the DeLorean. The classic cars are largely consigned to collectors' garages, new figures show.

news.sky.com

I'm not sure they have anything beyond the show cars that have been on display at the parks in the United States. That said, for the right price they could certainly get their hands on one, especially if they don't need one that runs (see: acquiring the 1959 Caddy for their latest parade in Orlando).

 

[rob@rar]

Another filing from the UK's Companies House shows that on the same day (18 Dec 2024) that £140M was injected in to one of Universal's holding company for the Bedford development, "SC Collection Ltd", by way of a share allotment, the same amount was injected in to one of Universal's other holding companies, "Cloud Wing UK Ltd". I'd guess that Comcast are capitalising their UK companies that will soon be placing major contracts for construction services, so that when those companies do their due diligence they can see the significant funds are already in place in the UK.

 

[bedfordmassive]

Train on the left is to Bedford (via Luton Airport and Luton in about 40 minutes), train on the right is to Paris.

Admittedly, you can’t walk across - but still v close.

(Sign isn’t broken, I just caught it mid refresh)

 

[tommyhawkins]

Another filing from the UK's Companies House shows that on the same day (18 Dec 2024) that £140M was injected in to one of Universal's holding company for the Bedford development, "SC Collection Ltd", by way of a share allotment, the same amount was injected in to one of Universal's other holding companies, "Cloud Wing UK Ltd". I'd guess that Comcast are capitalising their UK companies that will soon be placing major contracts for construction services, so that when those companies do their due diligence they can see the significant funds are already in place in the UK.

I believe that's one of three SPVs they created for the project, also to date I believe from looking at companies house they have only purchased 476acres, there was discussion on here a few weeks back about where the "150 acres" was located by from what I can see we would be talking about them purchasing the 224 acres West of the site including the area needed for the motorway intersection and bridge/tunnel to cross the railway line, we all assumed from the consultation documents they had already purchased that land but i dont think so (see pic below) conveniently that whole area equates to the 700 Acres expansion option that has been repeatedly spoken of in the news

 

[rob@rar]

I believe that's one of three SPVs they created for the project, also to date I believe from looking at companies house they have only purchased 476acres, there was discussion on here a few weeks back about where the "150 acres" was located by from what I can see we would be talking about them purchasing the 224 acres West of the site including the area needed for the motorway intersection and bridge/tunnel to cross the railway line, we all assumed from the consultation documents they had already purchased that land but i dont think so (see pic below) conveniently that whole area equates to the 700 Acres expansion option that has been repeatedly spoken of in the newsView attachment 26119

Buying that parcel of land would make sense to me as it would provide loads of expansion area for theme park or hotel space. I'm sure the train line running between that and Universal's main parcel of land wouldn't provide an insurmountable barrier.

I'm pretty sure that parcel of land, known as CP Farm (the northern part of the plot) and Randall's Farm (the southern part, where the A421 spur road is likely to be constructed) is owned by O&H Ltd. If they are looking to sell to Universal (or have already agreed an option) that might be the mysterious plot of land that Universal refer to. CP Farm is 48 hectares (119 acres), so with the additional land at Randall's Farm it's certainly in the ball park to take Universal's land purchase up to 700 acres, or so. The one possible fly in the ointment is that O&H have been promoting that site to Bedford Council as residential housing development, as a part of the council's 2040 development plan.

I've always been a bit confused about the land where the A421 slip road will be located. That road link is absolutely key to Universal's transport plans, so I've never understood why they don't already own it. They did lots of archeological survey work last year, so clearly it is in the frame for change of use from the current agricultural fields, but aren't Universal taking a risk that someone else identifies a use for that land which would kibosh Universal's plan for road traffic entering the theme park...?

 

[rob@rar]

I believe that's one of three SPVs they created for the project,

Cloud Wing UK Limited
SC Collection Limited
Kempston Hardwick Developments Limited

All three companies were owned by the same group of directors who owned the land that Universal bought when they purchased these companies. According to Companies House, that purchase was completed on 31 August 2023, with ownership initially registered by a corporate and legal services company Elemental CoSec based in London, presumably on Universal's behalf. On 22 December 2023 ownership of these companies (and the land) was officially registered by Universal. This was a few days after @Alicia broke the news that Universal were heading to Bedford, and perhaps that wasn't a coincidence.

 

[JT01]

It makes perfect sense for Universal to purchase that land.. in fact, it almost seems crazy not to. That parcel could even support a small second gate, and with the right infrastructure, they could connect it to CityWalk by tunneling under or bridging over the railway tracks.

It’s a shame they can’t acquire the land where those warehouses currently sit, that would really round out the resort layout nicely. Maybe it’s something that could be possible in the future?

 

[rob@rar]

Maybe it’s something that could be possible in the future?

Is there such a thing as too much land (from a business perspective, not from a theme park fan's perspective)? Like Disneyland Paris, I suspect USGB will always be a short-break destination, two or three days, at most as for many it will be a day-trip. I can't see many families booking week-long or longer holidays at the Universal resort, even if they open a full size second gate. The existential financial crisis at DLP was because they massively over-built on the vast tract of land they acquired and they never got the visitor attendance or spend to sustain the capital investment. Even today, the DLP resort is a three-day visit.

Universal already have a huge amount of land, as much as they have for their main campus in Orlando. Is there a natural limit to how much they could productively use within the context of a world-class theme park offering the best possible short-break destination?

 

[EllieB]

Is there such a thing as too much land (from a business perspective, not from a theme park fan's perspective). Like Disneyland Paris, I suspect USGB will always be a short-break destination, two or three days, at most as for many it will be a day-trip. I can't see many families booking week-long or longer holidays at the Universal resort, even if they open a full size second gate. The existential financial crisis at DLP was because they massively over-built on the vast tract of land they acquired and they never got the visitor attendance or spend to sustain the capital investment. Even today, the DLP resort is a three-day visit.

Universal already have a huge amount of land, as much as they have for their main campus in Orlando. Is there a natural limit to how much they could productively use within the context of a world-class theme park offering the best possible short-break destination?

I suspect it all comes down to how much they'd have to pay to secure the land. There's a benefit to just owning the surrounding space so that it isn't used for anything else, even if they never plan to build on it.

I imagine Universal know exactly how much the surrounding land is worth to them, both for future investment and for leaving fallow, and they'll be ready to buy land for either purpose up to whatever cost they've decided is acceptable for each purpose.

Just a note on the duration of a holiday here; whilst I imagine it will likely only be a one/two night stay (if any) for many UK guests, if the hotels are priced right they could be hoping to capitalise on the closeness of things like WB Studio Tour and hope people pay to stay with them and take a day trip out to nearby sites, or even into London. DLP sell day trips / excursions into Paris, for example, so there's no reason to think that Universal couldn't market something similar to their European / Worldwide guests.

 

[JT01]

Is there such a thing as too much land (from a business perspective, not from a theme park fan's perspective)? Like Disneyland Paris, I suspect USGB will always be a short-break destination, two or three days, at most as for many it will be a day-trip. I can't see many families booking week-long or longer holidays at the Universal resort, even if they open a full size second gate. The existential financial crisis at DLP was because they massively over-built on the vast tract of land they acquired and they never got the visitor attendance or spend to sustain the capital investment. Even today, the DLP resort is a three-day visit.

Universal already have a huge amount of land, as much as they have for their main campus in Orlando. Is there a natural limit to how much they could productively use within the context of a world-class theme park offering the best possible short-break destination?

I see your point, but that space could easily be filled over time with a few resort hotels, a smaller second gate, and maybe even an indoor water park or an event/sports venues.

I suppose we won’t really know how the resort will evolve until much further down the line. But looking at their other properties, most of them seem to be built out to near full capacity within the land they own and they all appear quite landlocked as a result.

 

[rob@rar]

I suspect it all comes down to how much they'd have to pay to secure the land. There's a benefit to just owning the surrounding space so that it isn't used for anything else, even if they never plan to build on it.

Given how difficult it is to develop residential property and how much pressure Bedford Council is under to hit housing targets, than kind of land-banking where there is never the intention to use the space other than a green buffer should be, rightly IMO, frowned upon.

I see your point, but that space could easily be filled over time with a few resort hotels, a smaller second gate, and maybe even an indoor water park or an event/sports venues.

Don't they have sufficient space for that already? The plots that @tommyhawkins has drawn already show there's space for that kind of resort. I'm not sure that comparisons with land use at Universal Orlando are very helpful as I can't imagine USGB ever being on that scale, in the same way as DLP will never be the same scale as WDW.

 

[HHN Maddux]

What type of ride we thinking Lord of the Rings will see? Lots of different opportunities. You could do a Soarin'-style flight over the Shire, a rapids ride for the barrel scene in Hobbit, or heck have a KUKA arm ride like FJ and Unchained.

 

[rob@rar]

... or heck have a KUKA arm ride like FJ and Unchained.

This. Please. Pretty please.

"Escape from Moria" will do nicely.

 

[EllieB]

Given how difficult it is to develop residential property and how much pressure Bedford Council is under to hit housing targets, than kind of land-banking where there is never the intention to use the space other than a green buffer should be, rightly IMO, frowned upon.

Surely that depends what they do with the land though. It's possible to hold the land to create green buffer in a positive way, if they look after it so that it is a benefit for wildlife and people.

It's even possible that they could find ways to utilise the land that would keep it "green" whilst providing them with opportunities for separately ticketed activities. This could be things that add value to the resort in ways unique to the UK. For example, Bond themed treetop training challenge (like Go Ape), Jurassic World orienteering, zombie apocalypse backwoods survival activities, Hunger Games archery... I'm sure there's plenty more. Like Centre Parks but with IP.

 

[rob@rar]

Surely that depends what they do with the land though. It's possible to hold the land to create green buffer in a positive way, if they look after it so that it is a benefit for wildlife and people.

I think they already have enough land to achieve that. I think people are forgetting just how big a parcel of land they already own, even without taking up the option they seem to have on more space. Adding even more to their land bank is a step too far, IMO, unnecessary for their long term resort ambitions.