Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[Galaxy Defender]

I just want to see a life size animatronic Kong at the entrance to whatever they build at WNW.

 

[maxairmike]

Universal Blvd. can be expanded to 3 lanes to Sand Lake, and probably up to I-Drive, which would help to absorb additional traffic impacts. There is the issue of Lockheed at 5pm on weekdays, and the intersection of Sand Lake and Universal that is just hell during the after work rush hour period that could stand to be improved before major development happens. The Kirkman extension is a key part of that for local traffic coming from the north and east of property (i.e. the bulk of residential population in the Orlando area), allowing guests to reach the resort without dealing with that intersection, and also allows more flexible access to everything in that south area of I-Drive in general. The ramps for 528 at I-Drive are also being reworked, though that would still push traffic through that area of I-Drive instead of directly onto Universal Blvd. Unfortunately I think getting the Orangewood/Universal Blvd. interchange improved to handle capacity to put the traffic through there is a long shot because of the Orangewood subdivision.

 

[misterID]

Or they could build a monorail.

 

[GAcoaster]

Or they could build a monorail.

When Disney won't spend money on new monorails, Universal won't either. Now they may put in some kind of transportation system, but not a monorail.

 

[misterID]

But UNI isn't Disney. Spirit said there were discussions of a monorail at one time, but again, the disclaimer, that doesn't anything, they probably have sorts of ideas for this issue. But I don't think anything is off the table.

 

[GAcoaster]

The reason why Disney hasn't expanded their monorail system or bought new monorail trains is because no one manufactures them anymore except as special orders. Replacing their current fleet of trains would cost roughly a half billion dollars and would require placing an order for at least 25 trains (they only have space for 12). Building onto the system to connect the other two theme parks would cost over a billion dollars as well. There is no return on investment (or at least none that could be shown to a board of directors or investors) so it will not happen until someone at the top of the organization say "this is what we're doing" the way Walt (and even Eisner) could. While it's a nice idea for Universal, there are cheaper ways to do it than a monorail. It could be an elevated transportation system like a funicular (like the Hogwarts Express is), but it will not be a monorail anything like Disney's.

 

[IzzyB]

I agree it will not be a Disney style monorail. But I think a lot of people think of elevated systems as monorails, so that term could be used and the person not actually mean the exact system Disney has. I also think it will be more like what we have with Hogwarts or some other elevated train type system.

 

[Nick]

The reason why Disney hasn't expanded their monorail system or bought new monorail trains is because no one manufactures them anymore except as special orders. Replacing their current fleet of trains would cost roughly a half billion dollars and would require placing an order for at least 25 trains (they only have space for 12). Building onto the system to connect the other two theme parks would cost over a billion dollars as well. There is no return on investment (or at least none that could be shown to a board of directors or investors) so it will not happen until someone at the top of the organization say "this is what we're doing" the way Walt (and even Eisner) could. While it's a nice idea for Universal, there are cheaper ways to do it than a monorail. It could be an elevated transportation system like a funicular (like the Hogwarts Express is), but it will not be a monorail anything like Disney's.

Disney spent $2Bn on MM+ (which mostly began as infrastructure upgrades). If Disney can spend that kind of money on MM+, $500M for new monorails is chump change.

 

[GAcoaster]

Except that they won't. They sold MM+ to the board as being cheaper than it ended up being and that it would recoup its investment. Spending on a monorail has no potential for ROI to sell them on.

 

[quinnmac000]

I'm good with anything but buses which I also think is what a lot of people are getting at with the thought of light rails etc.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Except that they won't. They sold MM+ to the board as being cheaper than it ended up being and that it would recoup its investment. Spending on a monorail has no potential for ROI to sell them on.

Unless you were to do a Pay-to-Ride service like how TDR has it (which, I think that'd piss off a lot of people); then i agree that there is no way that you can have any ROI.

 

[Nick]

Except that they won't. They sold MM+ to the board as being cheaper than it ended up being and that it would recoup its investment. Spending on a monorail has no potential for ROI to sell them on.

Almost everything about MM+ has no ROI. Much of it was infrastructure. If they can sell the board on infrastructure having a ROI, i'm sure the could come up with something to pitch for new monorails. Maybe the simple fact that they save millions by having a more reliable transport system and by having a system that isn't breaking down all of the time, guests will spend more because they will get to where they want to go faster. Come up with a bunch of BS statistics and you've got yourself an argument.

Sometimes you've just gotta swallow the pill.

 

[s8film40]

The reason why Disney hasn't expanded their monorail system or bought new monorail trains is because no one manufactures them anymore except as special orders. Replacing their current fleet of trains would cost roughly a half billion dollars and would require placing an order for at least 25 trains (they only have space for 12). Building onto the system to connect the other two theme parks would cost over a billion dollars as well. There is no return on investment (or at least none that could be shown to a board of directors or investors) so it will not happen until someone at the top of the organization say "this is what we're doing" the way Walt (and even Eisner) could. While it's a nice idea for Universal, there are cheaper ways to do it than a monorail. It could be an elevated transportation system like a funicular (like the Hogwarts Express is), but it will not be a monorail anything like Disney's.

There are more monorails being produced now than there were back when Disney built their system and when they replaced their trains. Brazil is building the equivalent to what would essentially connect everything at WDW for roughly $1billion. I guess to me quick efficient transportation would be far more worth $1billion than wristbands but that's a whole other topic.

As I've said before I think the perfect fit here is a cable driven system like the Hogwarts Express.

 

[Frank Drackman]

Unless you were to do a Pay-to-Ride service like how TDR has it (which, I think that'd piss off a lot of people); then i agree that there is no way that you can have any ROI.

When Disney had the lettered ride tickets, you needed to buy a transportation ticket. I also recall when they went away from the coupon books the tickets use to break out the cost of transportation from the cost of the park ticket (printed on the ticket it would break out the tax, the transport price, and the park ticket price)...so I know at one time they appeared to keep transportation monies in a different bucket and I'd imagine they could go back to that at some point.

 

[anihilnation]

Would a maglev or even a more traditional light rail or tram be possible?

 

[GAcoaster]

Almost everything about MM+ has no ROI. Much of it was infrastructure. If they can sell the board on infrastructure having a ROI, i'm sure the could come up with something to pitch for new monorails. Maybe the simple fact that they save millions by having a more reliable transport system and by having a system that isn't breaking down all of the time, guests will spend more because they will get to where they want to go faster. Come up with a bunch of BS statistics and you've got yourself an argument.

Sometimes you've just gotta swallow the pill.

No, they sold the board on MM+ by saying it will keep guests from leaving property and spending more money on property because they won't keep track of their spending because it's so easy to link a credit card and never realize what you did. And, it works. Spending is up for guests using MM+ and many of them are buying into the whole Disney package of fly to Orlando, Disney picks you up, drops you off, you stay on property and have no cares in the world, then they take you back to the airport and fly away without ever realizing there's anything else in Orlando. They spent the money to make money.

What Disney SHOULD do is spin the transportation department off to become part of Reedy Creek. Transportation makes no money, it is a public service. Like the roads and the parking garages, it should be run by Reedy Creek who could then issue bonds to pay for improvements and levy taxes on tickets to pay for new projects and repairs. That eliminates the need for board approval, they just do what is necessary to keep the Reedy Creek Improvement District functioning properly. Like they do with water, sewers, power, trash removal, roads and everything else they do.

 

[GAcoaster]

Would a maglev or even a more traditional light rail or tram be possible?

It's possible, just not practical for this scale of application.

 

[*Q*]

Unless you were to do a Pay-to-Ride service like how TDR has it (which, I think that'd piss off a lot of people); then i agree that there is no way that you can have any ROI.

It could work, that's actually how it was originally done at WDW.

 

[misterID]

Disney was very interested in a monorail system used at Orlando International Airport. I'm sure UNI could come up with something similar and practical. But saying monorails aren't being made anymore isn't correct.

 

[GAcoaster]

The "monorail" at OIA is not a monorail. Disney has ZERO interest in it since it was made by and is owned and run by Bombardier who built Disney's current fleet of monorails and who Disney refuses to work with and they refuse to work with Disney.

Yes, people movers are sold as monorails and are still being produced but you will not see a true monorail get built. The last real monorail built in the U.S. was the Vegas monorail and it cost more than a billion dollars and has not lived up to expectations.