Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[fryoj]

No, no, no, no, and no.

These parks work for a very specific reason and only for that reason.

Amusement parks with very few exceptions (Ceder Point, SFMM) are not world class resorts, and one hasn't been built in Orlando because Orlando is a resort town that people go out of their way from all over the world to see. You throw in a park that is a bunch of rollercoasters, even if they're great ones, and I guarantee you that park will have the lowest attendance rating in Orlando.

People travel to Orlando because every park in the area can be done as a family, most amusement parks don't allow that, or make it very obvious when they are separating kid rides and adult rides.

Let's look at it another way, BGT is an hour drive from the attractions area of Orlando. There are shuttles that will take you to that park from seaworld, hotels, and universal, but yet yearly attendance hovers around 4 million. Amusement parks work best when localized, SFMM and Ceder Point being exceptions because of how good the rides are, and even so it's a fairly short drive compared to Orlando, so local families will still take time to visit.

I like how you trash the idea, but just about every example you use you say that CP and SFMM are exceptions. People travel to those parks. Specifically CP. Its in the middle of nowhere yet still gets attendance similar to parks in major cities. BGT does not compare to CP on the ride front. They have some nice ones, but just about everything CP builds is a new experience for people. You put it in a major destination city and numbers would skyrocket. In 2011 CP had 3.1 million visitors and was closed for 6 months of the year! USF had 6 million and was open year round. Are you telling me that you drop CP in Orlando and give it 6 more months each year, it wouldn't at least get to 5-6 million attendance? Combine it with Universal pumping it and adding in the benefit of the multi-park tickets and it might outdraw USF.

 

[insanepizzaguy]

If Universal expanded into a third gate what are some attractions or lands that you guys would really like to see? LOTR, Horror, and DC(of course) would probably be at the top of my list.

These are some lands I would want to see in a third gate: video games, Hill Valley, Doctor Who, Cybertron, Bikini Bottom, Pacific Playland (Zombieland), and something with H.P. Lovecraft and Cthulu.

 

[JungleSkip]

I like how you trash the idea, but just about every example you use you say that CP and SFMM are exceptions. People travel to those parks. Specifically CP. Its in the middle of nowhere yet still gets attendance similar to parks in major cities. BGT does not compare to CP on the ride front. They have some nice ones, but just about everything CP builds is a new experience for people. You put it in a major destination city and numbers would skyrocket. In 2011 CP had 3.1 million visitors and was closed for 6 months of the year! USF had 6 million and was open year round. Are you telling me that you drop CP in Orlando and give it 6 more months each year, it wouldn't at least get to 5-6 million attendance? Combine it with Universal pumping it and adding in the benefit of the multi-park tickets and it might outdraw USF.

No it won't.

There's a reason you've never seen nor will ever see a park like that in Orlando. It's not the market for one.

 

[mahnamahna]

I like how you trash the idea, but just about every example you use you say that CP and SFMM are exceptions. People travel to those parks. Specifically CP. Its in the middle of nowhere yet still gets attendance similar to parks in major cities. BGT does not compare to CP on the ride front. They have some nice ones, but just about everything CP builds is a new experience for people. You put it in a major destination city and numbers would skyrocket. In 2011 CP had 3.1 million visitors and was closed for 6 months of the year! USF had 6 million and was open year round. Are you telling me that you drop CP in Orlando and give it 6 more months each year, it wouldn't at least get to 5-6 million attendance? Combine it with Universal pumping it and adding in the benefit of the multi-park tickets and it might outdraw USF.

Cedar Point gets that much attendance because it's a cheap alternative to Disney and Universal - for people in the North and Midwestern parts of the country, Cedar Point is more affordable than those two. However, you need only look at most Six Flags parks, DCA, Knotts from 1998-2010, 2011ish, DHS, and even IOA to some degree that appealing to thrill-seekers only bring hard-core fans, and definitely maintenance/security problems aplenty (gangs and teens would overflow the place)

Universal is desperately trying to stop being a thrill destination, and become the adventurous family destination. That's why all of the E-tickets for now on are going to mostly be family-friendly, along with smaller kids rides. They're trying to take on Disney, and 400 ft unthemed roller coasters won't do the trick. They already get enough flack from Disney fans that Hulk, Rockit, Dragon Challenge, and Doom are all poorly-themed thrill rides, which I can't argue with :look:

But no it wouldn't get 5-6 million in attendance - if that were true, the rumored Orlando Thrill Park would have gotten fasttracked more like 2-2.5 million: a fringe park that might be a Six Flags-esque destination, but it would never approach the heights of the big parks. And Busch Gardens easily has some of the best coasters in FL, the best-themed thrill park in the state - 4 million in attendance. Think about that.

 

[fryoj]

Cedar Point gets that much attendance because it's a cheap alternative to Disney and Universal - for people in the North and Midwestern parts of the country, Cedar Point is more affordable than those two. However, you need only look at most Six Flags parks, DCA, Knotts from 1998-2010, 2011ish, DHS, and even IOA to some degree that appealing to thrill-seekers only bring hard-core fans, and definitely maintenance/security problems aplenty (gangs and teens would overflow the place)

Universal is desperately trying to stop being a thrill destination, and become the adventurous family destination. That's why all of the E-tickets for now on are going to mostly be family-friendly, along with smaller kids rides. They're trying to take on Disney, and 400 ft unthemed roller coasters won't do the trick. They already get enough flack from Disney fans that Hulk, Rockit, Dragon Challenge, and Doom are all poorly-themed thrill rides, which I can't argue with :look:

But no it wouldn't get 5-6 million in attendance - if that were true, the rumored Orlando Thrill Park would have gotten fasttracked more like 2-2.5 million: a fringe park that might be a Six Flags-esque destination, but it would never approach the heights of the big parks. And Busch Gardens easily has some of the best coasters in FL, the best-themed thrill park in the state - 4 million in attendance. Think about that.

You bring up some fair points. And to be clear, I don't think Universal would clone Cedar point nor do anything unthemed. I was more referring to CP quality and quantity rides in a Universal setting. And my post was about what I would like to see. Not a prediction nor what I think will happen. I would rather see an IOA/CP hybrid thrill park in Orlando than another park full of big box dark/3d/pseudo coaster rides. I like those rides when done right, but you can have too many.

But heres my question. Take Busch Gardens, drop it in Orlando and not and hour away. Make it part of Universal so people with multiday passes go there. How much do you think attendance increases? 1-2 million yearly? How would adding more thrill rides hurt attendance?

 

[JungleSkip]

How would adding more thrill rides hurt attendance?

Because there is still a large contingent of Orlando visitors that won't even give Uni the time of day because of rides like Hulk. Making an entire park of those kind of rides won't help.

 

[Bryce]

I'd say Kali (If everything worked) is better then themed then Pop's while Dudley is downright embarrassing when compared to Splash and JTA. Though yes, both are very fun rides.

Popeye is just themed differently than Kali. Both are incredibly well themed. I don't really see how you can dispute that... And Splash Mountain is far better than Dudley, but JTA is a mess. Where Dudley falls apart is the interior show scenes. All exterior scenes and the facade are very well themed, in my opinion.

 

[Mad Dog]

Probably the bulk of Orlando tourists are coming from areas that have fairly close access to Coaster/Amusement parks. They come to Orlando to experience Theme parks. There's a huge difference. I have an excellent amusement park within 20 minutes of my house. I go once every two years, except for Christmas season. . Conversely I spend three to four weeks a year at the Orlando Theme parks. Big difference between a Coaster/Amusement park & a Theme park. Not even close.

 

[Clive]

Popeye is the best ride of its kind, themed or otherwise, anywhere. The show scenes are fully realized, are fun & interesting to look at, and tell a coherent, easily understandable story. They nailed the Popeye cartoons.

Dudley Do-Right's Ripsaw Falls has a jaw-dropping facade and is, at its very core, a very fun ride... but its show elements (facade aside) are absolutely abysmal and an embarrassment to the Universal attractions roster. Since I know Uni isn't going to spend money to upgrade this sucker (I mean, Dudley has to be the most obscure/least-marketable IP in either park), I'd rather it either get top-to-bottom rethemed or torn down for something new.

I wish we could salvage Popeye, but Toon Lagoon really does feel expendable when Uni's willing to tear out Amity.

 

[Accio Butterbeer]

These are some lands I would want to see in a third gate: video games, Hill Valley, Doctor Who, Cybertron, Bikini Bottom, Pacific Playland (Zombieland), and something with H.P. Lovecraft and Cthulu.

I like the Hill Valley idea.

- - - Updated - - -

Cedar Point gets that much attendance because it's a cheap alternative to Disney and Universal - for people in the North and Midwestern parts of the country, Cedar Point is more affordable than those two. However, you need only look at most Six Flags parks, DCA, Knotts from 1998-2010, 2011ish, DHS, and even IOA to some degree that appealing to thrill-seekers only bring hard-core fans, and definitely maintenance/security problems aplenty (gangs and teens would overflow the place)

Universal is desperately trying to stop being a thrill destination, and become the adventurous family destination. That's why all of the E-tickets for now on are going to mostly be family-friendly, along with smaller kids rides. They're trying to take on Disney, and 400 ft unthemed roller coasters won't do the trick. They already get enough flack from Disney fans that Hulk, Rockit, Dragon Challenge, and Doom are all poorly-themed thrill rides, which I can't argue with :look:

But no it wouldn't get 5-6 million in attendance - if that were true, the rumored Orlando Thrill Park would have gotten fasttracked more like 2-2.5 million: a fringe park that might be a Six Flags-esque destination, but it would never approach the heights of the big parks. And Busch Gardens easily has some of the best coasters in FL, the best-themed thrill park in the state - 4 million in attendance. Think about that.

Poorly themed?

 

[quickfire609]

Probably the bulk of Orlando tourists are coming from areas that have fairly close access to Coaster/Amusement parks. They come to Orlando to experience Theme parks. There's a huge difference. I have an excellent amusement park within 20 minutes of my house. I go once every two years, except for Christmas season. . Conversely I spend three to four weeks a year at the Orlando Theme parks. Big difference between a Coaster/Amusement park & a Theme park. Not even close.

To be fair I think he's talking about a high quality amusement park coupled with universal/disney level theming. It's an interesting idea, but as was said above, there are still people who associate Universal with thrill rides and won't bother.

 

[Accio Butterbeer]

Popeye is the best ride of its kind, themed or otherwise, anywhere. The show scenes are fully realized, are fun & interesting to look at, and tell a coherent, easily understandable story. They nailed the Popeye cartoons.

Dudley Do-Right's Ripsaw Falls has a jaw-dropping facade and is, at its very core, a very fun ride... but its show elements (facade aside) are absolutely abysmal and an embarrassment to the Universal attractions roster. Since I know Uni isn't going to spend money to upgrade this sucker (I mean, Dudley has to be the most obscure/least-marketable IP in either park), I'd rather it either get top-to-bottom rethemed or torn down for something new.

I wish we could salvage Popeye, but Toon Lagoon really does feel expendable when Uni's willing to tear out Amity.

I think people are too hard on Dudley. Nothing about that ride makes me think it's terrible.

 

[ahank]

I can vouch for not wanting a thrill park in Orlando. Living in Indianapolis (a 14 hour drive) every trip to Orlando is meant to be an immersive experience, whether Disney or Universal. I have been to many parks in the midwest that offer some of the best roller coasters in the world (Kings Island, Holiday World, Cedar Point), but that's where it stops - there is hardly any theme, any atmosphere the park has is ruined by, uh, some of the clientele that visit these parks. Can you imagine walking into Disney surrounded by a bunch of teens with cut-off tank tops while the park music blares Bad Day by Daniel Powter or Take It Off by Ke$ha

These parks aren't a destination, but are a hang out spot for teens that live within a 4 hour radius (I guess you can consider Cedar Point a destination, but it really does continue to be mostly a locally visited park). A park like this would not be successful in the Orlando area.

 

[Clive]

I think people are too hard on Dudley. Nothing about that ride makes me think it's terrible.

If you really want me to break down in nitty gritty detail what makes it bad, I will. I've done it before. (Maybe I'll go dig up one of those old posts and just copy-paste.)

It was an attraction with high ambition that fell apart when it ran out of money to finish its show scenes. It really is just a mess. (Show-wise. AGAIN, as a ride taken on its own terms, it's fun. As a themed attraction... blah.)

 

[JungleSkip]

If you really want me to break down in nitty gritty detail what makes it bad, I will. I've done it before. (Maybe I'll go dig up one of those old posts and just copy-paste.)

It was an attraction with high ambition that fell apart when it ran out of money to finish its show scenes. It really is just a mess. (Show-wise. AGAIN, as a ride taken on its own terms, it's fun. As a themed attraction... blah.)

I agree with this. The ride is fun, but as a themed ride it's a joke.

 

[maxairmike]

Sorry for the tangent, but...can I pretty please have a Casper dark ride?

Ok, nostalgic moment over. Back to your regularly scheduled 3rd gate land and other discussions. Speaking of which, I really need to get on breaking down the plots around the WNW land.

 

[wizwit]

I love Dudley, too. But agree that the theming inside the ride is lacking.

Fallow mentioned Universal not finishing the ride's show scenes because of a lack of budget when it was being constructed.

Can anyone elaborate on what was originally planned, but was ultimately cut, from the ride? Just curious to hear what it could have (should have?) been.

 

[KreativeKid]

I know this is off topic, but:

My family and I (three of us) got a great vacation deal with 1 day SeaWorld, 1 day 1 park at Universal, and 4 day park hopper at Disney. We want to upgrade our Universal passes to 1 day 2 park passes with Unlimited Express. We don't know if the tickets we get from the deal will say special offer on them or not, but we want to know if we could exchange them at the park? If so, would Express be sold out for that day in advance (we are going the last Sunday in July)?

 

[Accio Butterbeer]

If you really want me to break down in nitty gritty detail what makes it bad, I will. I've done it before. (Maybe I'll go dig up one of those old posts and just copy-paste.)

It was an attraction with high ambition that fell apart when it ran out of money to finish its show scenes. It really is just a mess. (Show-wise. AGAIN, as a ride taken on its own terms, it's fun. As a themed attraction... blah.)

I try not to think about what could have been. Especially when I already love the ride how it is. But if you hate it that's fine. Everyone has their own opinion.

 

[duckpcola]

I agree Accio, Dudley is my favorite log ride I've ever ridden. It's also pretty long for a log ride, with a few good drops before the final drop. I really hope they do not get rid of the ride, but just put some upgraded theming and work to make it that much better. However, if Universal decides in the future to replace it I will not be too disappointed as I'm sure whatever takes Dudley's place will be interesting and fun.