Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[OrlandoGuy]

When countering someone's opinion (and please do, thats what we are here for), I think it inspires better discussion when you state your reasoning as opposed to a blunt 'No" with no thoughts attached to it. Not trying to be a dick by mentioning this, I'm just trying to help this be a more conversational environment for everyone.

I can't do much with a "No, it wouldn't".

It's because hotels are way more costly to run than empty buildings. A hotel is gonna take staff, utilities, all of the amenity supplies while having to deal with revenue management and dealing with having to keep all of those expenses going in times when occupancy dips below 70%. A soundstage is just there, at a minimal cost to Universal. The revenue alone from Halloween Horror Nights guarantees a big "profit" so to speak on those soundstages. Not to mention they only have to incur expense when someone is guaranteed to be paying for it. It's the difference between having people pay for a box vs paying for a full-fledged team of people who are on the payroll 24/7.

Tl;dr hotels are expensive and soundstages are nothing but net revenue.

 

[maxairmike]

Ah, ok, that's why I thought the outlets owned FB/Artegon. The sale was in 2010 (that long ago? Feels like it was much more recent) and it was bought by a firm tied to the former owner of the outlets. These development companies can be a real tangled web to work through.

 

[Skubersky]

Oh, did I include their property? I thought I lined around it, or has something since been built on the vacant land in the image I used.

On closer inspection, you did draw around the existing Fun Spot attractions, but I believe they bought the land on the north side of Fun Spot Way for expansion.

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

They did.. Other land is for FDOT

 

[Teebin]

On closer inspection, you did draw around the existing Fun Spot attractions, but I believe they bought the land on the north side of Fun Spot Way for expansion.

Yeah, I checked on http://maps.ocpafl.org/webmap/ and they only own a sliver of land on that other side.

 

[Donald Razorduck]

Interesting, but I don't think Fun Spot is going away anytime soon...

Not only are they adding a mini Gatorland, they own 10 acres of vacant land across the street due north of the existing park. They had waterpark renderings about the same time they built their coasters but shelved them. If Uni closes WNW, they could capitalize on the loss of a less expensive, less themed up water park. This show the area that is now going to be Gator Spot as a mini waterpark

That 10 acres could hold a massive Water Fortress with a dozen slides coming off of it Like this park that takes up less than half of 10 acres

 

[anihilnation]

If Uni closes WNW, they could capitalize on the loss of a less expensive, less themed up water park. This show the area that is now going to be Gator Spot as a mini waterpark

That is a great thought actually, though preferably I'd see them at another coaster and more flat rides.

 

[Donald Razorduck]

That is a great thought actually, though preferably I'd see them at another coaster and more flat rides.

There are some great compact coasters out there that could likely be added to the "dry" park. One that I rode last summer was Iron Shark in Galveston on The Pleasure Pier. It's a Gerstlauer compact Eurofighter. The blue track coaster you see here. It would give Fun Spot an inverting coaster

Something like this or and S&S El Loco fits that park well alon with a more conventional spinner like the new one in Santa Cruz

 

[Teebin]

Probably a lot of tax reasons for Uni having the sound stages as well.

yeah, there are many different use codes for the various pieces of property within UOR. The sound stages have completely different use codes than the parks... and one would assume, completely different taxes.

 

[SeventyOne]

I was looking at the map and saw this skanky mall thingy wasting space... I had no idea what it was until a little more research; Artegon. Then I found this article which gave me hope:

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/orland...-floundering-festival-bay/Content?oid=2242203

Once this fails, it would be ripe for park development.

I agree Artegon is doomed to fail, but I don't think the developers will give up that easily. I expect they will bite the bullet and re-purpose into an "outdoor lifestyle center" ala the outlet malls or Disney Springs. Or maybe try to tap into the nightlife boom that is coming to I-Drive; a little far north to capitalize on 360/Mangos/Pointe, but they could be the sketchy cut-rate alternative.

In any case, it's just far enough away to not be all that practical. If the new development is not going to be contiguous, just buy Sea World, where most of your infrastructure and zoning issues have been handled.

 

[GAcoaster]

I would agree if they weren't at saturation point with malls in the area already. Between the traditional malls (Millennia, Florida Mall), the multiple outlet centers, the addition of Disney Springs, and then all the new shopping coming with Skyplex and all the other works promised for I-Drive, Artegon just won't ever find an audience or a purpose. I would even say some of the other shopping centers may go away as well with the new venues opening. Why pay for stores in multiple spots when you can just have one that draws the crowds?

When it comes down to it, there is nothing that can't be moved/changed out there...Artegon, the outlets, Fun Spot, all of it could go away if the price was right.

 

[Teebin]

I would agree if they weren't at saturation point with malls in the area already. Between the traditional malls (Millennia, Florida Mall), the multiple outlet centers, the addition of Disney Springs, and then all the new shopping coming with Skyplex and all the other works promised for I-Drive, Artegon just won't ever find an audience or a purpose. I would even say some of the other shopping centers may go away as well with the new venues opening. Why pay for stores in multiple spots when you can just have one that draws the crowds?

When it comes down to it, there is nothing that can't be moved/changed out there...Artegon, the outlets, Fun Spot, all of it could go away if the price was right.

This is my point... all the talk of Lockheed land is silly. It is too far away to hold any cohesion that must be present. I would quicker think that Comcast would eye a location like Porto Alegre, Brazil for a new park and call it a day.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

I would agree if they weren't at saturation point with malls in the area already. Between the traditional malls (Millennia, Florida Mall), the multiple outlet centers, the addition of Disney Springs, and then all the new shopping coming with Skyplex and all the other works promised for I-Drive, Artegon just won't ever find an audience or a purpose. I would even say some of the other shopping centers may go away as well with the new venues opening. Why pay for stores in multiple spots when you can just have one that draws the crowds?

When it comes down to it, there is nothing that can't be moved/changed out there...Artegon, the outlets, Fun Spot, all of it could go away if the price was right.

You would be surprised...the #1 motivation for tourists visiting Florida is shopping. It probably makes sense to every developer everywhere to capitalize on that.

 

[Donald Razorduck]

From most accounts I've seen is that Bass Pro is a successful store, I guess Ron Jon is too but wasn't it supposed to have wave pools to surf on that never happened due to the recession. It feels like it got recessioned and never got there before the money dried up completely. The Vans store had a skate park right? Like tourist pack their skate boards but I digress.

Being in Memphis, I'm witnessing Bass Pro turn an old arena(Pyramid) into a new retail outlet. Not just any outlet, but one that transforms the old floor into a cypress swamp, two restaurants including a themed up bowling alley one, a 100 room hotel looking over that man made swamp, observation deck up on top. Maybe, Ol' Johnny gets crazy and comes up with something for at least a portion of the mall.

 

[darkridelover]

Guys. I lived in the area of Festival Bay mall. There is absolutely no chance of it's survival. Millenia Mall is literally 5 mins away and easier to get to and the Florida Mall is close by too. Both are far superior than anything that could be put in Festival Bay. Couple that with the Outlets right across the street which makes it impossible to get any type of popular retail stores because they're already across the street in a much more hip and modern space. The mall is closed down except for basically the Movie Theater and Bass Pro Shop. Which does ok but it's been there forever. It's not going to revitalize the place. As far as I'm concerned the land the mall sits on and the vacant lots to its east are all potentially up for grabs.

 

[Donald Razorduck]

I get that. I'm sure BPS could relocate to a new, better development if the money was right.

 

[Cheezbat]

If I was universal I'd buy out Artegon, demo the mall, build a new version of Citywalk with new buildings for all the longstanding tennants and then utilize the rest of the land for a third theme park and a few on site hotels

 

[princeinc]

Universal has been building so consistently for the past few years that a crane has officially beyond part of its skyline. lol. Driving but there's rockit, crane, lighthouse, hp, crane, dr dooms, hulk, JP

 

[GAcoaster]

You would be surprised...the #1 motivation for tourists visiting Florida is shopping. It probably makes sense to every developer everywhere to capitalize on that.

Oh, I know. It's obvious Disney does too, since that's why they're building Disney Springs to try and keep more of that money on property. Even then, there is still a point where you end up with empty stores because they overbuild. At this point there is still room for growth but not for too much longer. And if the economy (or the Brazilian/South American economy) goes south, suddenly there could be a LOT of empty stores with no one to sell to anymore.

 

[Mad Dog]

Oh, I know. It's obvious Disney does too, since that's why they're building Disney Springs to try and keep more of that money on property. Even then, there is still a point where you end up with empty stores because they overbuild. At this point there is still room for growth but not for too much longer. And if the economy (or the Brazilian/South American economy) goes south, suddenly there could be a LOT of empty stores with no one to sell to anymore.

The large drop in the Euro's value vs. the dollar may well portend less visits from Europe. Euro has dropped apx. 25 to 30% in the past year or so. And the South American economies often are in boom & bust cycles. Often, those visitors are the difference between profit/no profit for many businesses.