Universal's New Park/Site B Blue Sky Thread

[Casper Gutman]

I absolutely trust our insiders and I have no inside information myself, so I’m sure anything I say will be a product of ignorance...

But...

None of the suggested or rumored lineups have the “WOW” factor Uni needs when announcing not just a new park but what is, in many ways, a new resort. That “WOW” factor is what gets social media buzzing, what gets multiple news stories written about Unis plans, what gets guests to plan a trip. Potter had it in spades, and that basically saved the whole resort. Nintendo had it, but that’s already announced, and the version in Japan will be open significantly before Orlando’s, massively diluting the “WOW.”

As far as I can see, there are four “WOW” IPs left that are both theme-park-appropriate and unused. The big two we all know - LOTR and ST. The others are DC, which runs into problems with Marvel, and Bond, which would be trickier to adapt to a theme park. I’m sure negotiations for any of those would be difficult, verging on impossible. The idea that WB would demand branding and Uni would balk makes complete sense. Nevertheless, I think if you’re Uni, you NEED one of those - or a comparable IP that hasn’t occurred to me and isn’t being mentioned in the many suggestions on this board.

 

[Nick]

No ones talking about The Ministry of Magic. Is that a possibility for the new park?

If MoM happens, it wouldn't make sense to happen anywhere but in USF.

 

[Ryan]

I absolutely trust our insiders and I have no inside information myself, so I’m sure anything I say will be a product of ignorance...

But...

None of the suggested or rumored lineups have the “WOW” factor Uni needs when announcing not just a new park but what is, in many ways, a new resort. That “WOW” factor is what gets social media buzzing, what gets multiple news stories written about Unis plans, what gets guests to plan a trip. Potter had it in spades, and that basically saved the whole resort. Nintendo had it, but that’s already announced, and the version in Japan will be open significantly before Orlando’s, massively diluting the “WOW.”

As far as I can see, there are four “WOW” IPs left that are both theme-park-appropriate and unused. The big two we all know - LOTR and ST. The others are DC, which runs into problems with Marvel, and Bond, which would be trickier to adapt to a theme park. I’m sure negotiations for any of those would be difficult, verging on impossible. The idea that WB would demand branding and Uni would balk makes complete sense. Nevertheless, I think if you’re Uni, you NEED one of those - or a comparable IP that hasn’t occurred to me and isn’t being mentioned in the many suggestions on this board.

Nintendo will have the wow factor, and it will be the focus on marketing the park. Trust me that people in the US won't care about a Japan SNW, and the Orlando one will get them to go.

 

[Nick]

I absolutely trust our insiders and I have no inside information myself, so I’m sure anything I say will be a product of ignorance...

But...

None of the suggested or rumored lineups have the “WOW” factor Uni needs when announcing not just a new park but what is, in many ways, a new resort. That “WOW” factor is what gets social media buzzing, what gets multiple news stories written about Unis plans, what gets guests to plan a trip. Potter had it in spades, and that basically saved the whole resort. Nintendo had it, but that’s already announced, and the version in Japan will be open significantly before Orlando’s, massively diluting the “WOW.”

As far as I can see, there are four “WOW” IPs left that are both theme-park-appropriate and unused. The big two we all know - LOTR and ST. The others are DC, which runs into problems with Marvel, and Bond, which would be trickier to adapt to a theme park. I’m sure negotiations for any of those would be difficult, verging on impossible. The idea that WB would demand branding and Uni would balk makes complete sense. Nevertheless, I think if you’re Uni, you NEED one of those - or a comparable IP that hasn’t occurred to me and isn’t being mentioned in the many suggestions on this board.

You don't think that Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Shrek and potentially more Potter isn't "WOW" enough for a park at open? That's just what you'd see in advertising too.

I also think we need to step back from our theme park fandom world's and realize that a brand spankin' new theme park opening in Orlando is going to be popular no matter what. It won't need much to get people to go to it, but there will be plenty for marketing to work with. They also aren't going to just let the park sit and rot. Expansions will happen.

As far as the "WOW" IPs left... you're right in one sense that the best theme park IPs have pretty much been all used up by now. LOTR is the last big get if they ever do come to terms.

However, you never know when a new franchise is going to pop out of the blue that will be theme park ready. Just look at Avatar - it came out in 2009, already has a theme park land opened and has four sequels ordered (Avatar 2 & 3 are almost finished filming. Zoe Saldana mentioned being done with both movies recently).

 

[Casper Gutman]

You don't think that Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Shrek and potentially more Potter isn't "WOW" enough for a park at open? That's just what you'd see in advertising too.

I also think we need to step back from our theme park fandom world's and realize that a brand spankin' new theme park opening in Orlando is going to be popular no matter what. It won't need much to get people to go to it, but there will be plenty for marketing to work with. They also aren't going to just let the park sit and rot. Expansions will happen.

As far as the "WOW" IPs left... you're right in one sense that the best theme park IPs have pretty much been all used up by now. LOTR is the last big get if they ever do come to terms.

However, you never know when a new franchise is going to pop out of the blue that will be theme park ready. Just look at Avatar - it came out in 2009, already has a theme park land opened and has four sequels ordered (Avatar 2 & 3 are almost finished filming. Zoe Saldana mentioned being done with both movies recently).

Shrek isn’t “wow.” It’s a very dated franchise, though a relaunch might change that - or it might not. Potter will absolutely be a draw, but it doesn’t distinguish the new park from the two older ones, something a “wow” IP needs to do. As I said, Nintendo has the wow factor, but because of its premature rollout some of that factor will be diminished.

I think it’s possible to overstate how exciting the announcement of a new park is to the general public. WDW ran into this - the lack of overall resort attendance increase occaisioned by AK convinced Disney the Orlando market was saturated. It took the “WOW” of Potter to boost Orlando visitors and (slowly) convince WDW execs they were very wrong.

And no, new IPs really aren’t being created. Avatar was the last, and its ongoing bankability is very much an open question. Overwhelmingly, modern pop culture’s economic and industrial structure is geared towards exploiting franchises that predate the late 2000s or, more commonly, the start of the 21st century. Exceptions tend to be limited to a few animated franchises. This is why the struggle over existing IPs is so fierce - witness the battle for Fox.

 

[Ryan]

As I said, Nintendo has the wow factor, but because of its premature rollout some of that factor will be diminished.

Do you really think the GP even knows about Nintendo going into Universal theme parks right now? Honestly all you need is "UNIVERSAL TO BUILD NINTENDO THEME PARK IN ORLANDO" with concept art and details and that'll go viral and people will flip their lids. I think you're very much overestimating the knowledge of the GP.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Do you really think the GP even knows about Nintendo going into Universal theme parks right now? Honestly all you need is "UNIVERSAL TO BUILD NINTENDO THEME PARK IN ORLANDO" with concept art and details and that'll go viral and people will flip their lids. I think you're very much overestimating the knowledge of the GP.

But that headline - and the concept art - has already gone viral. The GP already thinks Uni has been building a Nintendo theme park and that it started doing so a couple years ago. What they don’t know is that the plans changed.

 

[Imperius]

LOTR is really the only WOW factor left of the four you listed. Star Trek isn’t a wow factor in 2018 anymore. Bond isn’t a wow factor either. It’s not a huge crowd bringer. DC comics has already been done in themepark so it’s hard to call that a wow factor also. Pokémon would be a wow factor bigger than everything listed outside of LOTR.

 

[Casper Gutman]

LOTR is really the only WOW factor left of the four you listed. Star Trek isn’t a wow factor in 2018 anymore. Bond isn’t a wow factor either. It’s not a huge crowd bringer. DC comics has already been done in themepark so it’s hard to call that a wow factor also. Pokémon would be a wow factor bigger than everything listed outside of LOTR.

A separate, genuine question: what does a Pokémon Land look like? What is unique about the property’s architectural aesthetic? I’ve played a couple of the games, but I’m having trouble visualizing a land.

 

[Shinigami]

Phantasialand is a little different, I still think Universal could do better.

sry but Phantasialand will kick your argument with Fly and Rookburgh^^ they are very good at theming rides^^

 

[FlAn]

If the park is called Fantastic Worlds it does seem a slight missed opportunity to not bring the Water World show over from Hollywood, a huge people eater and good stunt spectacular.

If people complain about the theme just retheme it to say Bourne, Mission Impossible, James Bond. If Universal do get rid of Animal Actors the only show they will be left with will be Horror Makeup. It's good to have these kind of attractions to eat up the crowds, get out of the sun, go somewhere while queues are long etc.

Edit: I did forget Sinbad at IoA and whatever the rumoured terminator replacement is! Sorry Sinbad.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Another question: everyone seems to be certain Pokémon is a huge draw. In general, I’ve agreed with that. But I was digging a bit deeper, and noted that the first Pokémon film, released in 1999, made about 164 million worldwide. Adjusted for inflation, that means it made less than last years Tomb Raider or Maze Runner films - which were, to put it lightly, not hits. Now, box office is by no means the sole arbiter of an IPs popularity, but it does seem to suggest that Pokémon might have difficulty translating its popularity from one media to another - like, say, a theme park.

 

[Ryan]

But that headline - and the concept art - has already gone viral. The GP already thinks Uni has been building a Nintendo theme park and that it started doing so a couple years ago. What they don’t know is that the plans changed.

I'll give you my life savings to tell you that when this park is announced, and SNW is featured with the lineup, it'll go viral again. Again, you really are underestimating how the memory of these people work. It'll be successful, very, very successful.

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

A separate, genuine question: what does a Pokémon Land look like? What is unique about the property’s architectural aesthetic? I’ve played a couple of the games, but I’m having trouble visualizing a land.

Just hypothesizing, but I imagine you would enter a small town or wooded area (like the routes from the games), which possibly leads to a city, with the gym as the entrance for the land's E-Ticket. Personally, I would go with Prism Tower from Pokemon X and Y as the land's big eye-catching landmark. It would also be cool if there was some kind of Pokemon Snap feature within the land, i.e there's some kind of app, possibly Pokemon Go, that saves your pictures of hidden Pokemon within the park, which can then be brought over into your game. Honestly, if it were just a town and a city, I would find that a little generic, so hopefully they do something more radical in their design.

 

[Magic-Man]

Nintendo will have the wow factor, and it will be the focus on marketing the park. Trust me that people in the US won't care about a Japan SNW, and the Orlando one will get them to go.

What about the fact that SNW is opening up in Hollywood first? It’s great for them, not so great for us.

I gotta agree with @Casper Gutman a little. Even though the park will probably end up being awesome anyways, it’ll still be a missed opportunity to create something truly amazing.

They could have gotten LOTR, but they didn’t. They probably had the chance to grab some of the DC rights, they didn’t. Godzilla. Star Trek. Hell, they could have put Jurassic World or Fast and Furious in the new park, but they choose not to.

Nintendo, DreamWorks, Fantastic Beasts, and Classic Monsters/Holiday World is a good lineup, but there was opportunities for it to become so much more.

Keep in mind, this is assuming that Pokémon and Zelda get put into the new park as well, but they might not. That would be even worse.

 

[Casper Gutman]

What about the fact that SNW is opening up in Hollywood first? It’s great for them, not so great for us.

I gotta agree with @Casper Gutman a little. Even though the park will probably end up being awesome anyways, it’ll still be a missed opportunity to create something truly amazing.

They could have gotten LOTR, but they didn’t. They probably had the chance to grab some of the DC rights, they didn’t. Godzilla. Star Trek. Hell, they could have put Jurassic World or Fast and Furious in the new park, but they choose not to.

Nintendo, DreamWorks, Fantastic Beasts, and Classic Monsters/Holiday World is a good lineup, but there was opportunities for it to become so much more.

Keep in mind, this is assuming that Pokémon and Zelda get put into the new park as well, but they might not. That would be even worse.

Don’t get me wrong, I am tremendously excited about the new park. I will try to be their at opening. The “WOW” for me is a substantial Uni monster land (if it happens), something I’ve always wanted. The monsters are as foundational to Uni as Mickey is to Disney. But I’m a film fan.

I just... worry a bit about Nintendo. Not just for the reasons you state, but because video game properties have always had difficulties translating to other mediums. There’s never been a great video-game-based film, and a vast majority of film-based games are awful. I trust Uni and I like the art we’ve seen, I just think Nintendo is a trickier property then many acknowledge.

 

[Imperius]

What about the fact that SNW is opening up in Hollywood first? It’s great for them, not so great for us.

I gotta agree with @Casper Gutman a little. Even though the park will probably end up being awesome anyways, it’ll still be a missed opportunity to create something truly amazing.

They could have gotten LOTR, but they didn’t. They probably had the chance to grab some of the DC rights, they didn’t. Godzilla. Star Trek. Hell, they could have put Jurassic World or Fast and Furious in the new park, but they choose not to.

Nintendo, DreamWorks, Fantastic Beasts, and Classic Monsters/Holiday World is a good lineup, but there was opportunities for it to become so much more.

Keep in mind, this is assuming that Pokémon and Zelda get put into the new park as well, but they might not. That would be even worse.

A lot of assumptions. Saying they didn’t grab LOTR because they didn’t want to outside of if costing too much. Could have grabbed DC? Huge assumption seeing as it’s in Six Flags and not just an easy thing to do. Star Trek isn’t a big get anymore and is an outside IP again so not just a pick up and go. Godzilla I love, but it still rights to obtain from Togo which isn’t easy.

 

[Imperius]

Video games not translating to film means nothing for theme park translation. Theme parks give you the immersive feeling a game does where a film can’t do. Walking into Mushroom Kingdom is easy for a themepark while trying to build a story for a movie is hard. Walking around and visiting the Pokemart and pokecenter seeing Pokémon in the land is what people want. Not a movie about finding Mew. Look at the sustained popularity of Pokémon Go.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Video games not translating to film means nothing for theme park translation. Theme parks give you the immersive feeling a game does where a film can’t do. Walking into Mushroom Kingdom is easy for a themepark while trying to build a story for a movie is hard. Walking around and visiting the Pokemart and pokecenter seeing Pokémon in the land is what people want. Not a movie about finding Mew. Look at the sustained popularity of Pokémon Go.

Was Pokémon Go’s popularity sustained? I thought it was a huge fad that came and went in under a year.

 

[Magic-Man]

A lot of assumptions. Saying they didn’t grab LOTR because they didn’t want to outside of if costing too much. Could have grabbed DC? Huge assumption seeing as it’s in Six Flags and not just an easy thing to do. Star Trek isn’t a big get anymore and is an outside IP again so not just a pick up and go. Godzilla I love, but it still rights to obtain from Togo which isn’t easy.

Anything can be done with enough money. I’m just saying that there was opportunities there that Universal didn’t take.

Again, I’m not saying the park will suck. Cause it won’t, it’ll be great. But there was more that could have gone in there.