Westworld

[sjago13]

I'll rewatch. I edited my last response to add something else about Maeve.

add pic above (last page). I will tend to edit if there is no new post to not clutter so what I say may change a lot in here. lol

 

[Teebin]

And there was no Delores tonight. They have a big and mighty story to tell. Plus, it is so sexy. Real people, faux people, sexy, sexy, sexy.

 

[Andysol]

Wow- great recap. This is my new recap go to for sure.
Westworld: 8 Things We Learned from This Week’s Heartbreaking Episode | Vanity Fair
Interestingly enough- they throw an Easter egg of Yule Brenner from the 70s movie in the background this episode. Haha

 

[sjago13]

Wow- great recap. This is my new recap go to for sure.
Westworld: 8 Things We Learned from This Week’s Heartbreaking Episode | Vanity Fair
Interestingly enough- they throw an Easter egg of Yule Brenner from the 70s movie in the background this episode. Haha

Was literally about to post that.

What is the music that plays when Felix shows Maeve around the building? It sounds familiar but I can't put my finger on it.

 

[Andysol]

Was literally about to post that.

What is the music that plays when Felix shows Maeve around the building? It sounds familiar but I can't put my finger on it.

Not sure when- but I recognized two songs. They were from Radiohead- "Motion Picture Soundtrack" and the instrumental was "Fake Plastic Trees" (love that song) when she was waking. If it had words- it was motion picture.

Interestingly enough, now that I think about it, they played "No surprises" from Radiohead in the second or third episode. Seems that's an artist they're liking- all their bleak and hopeless stuff. Haha

Spoiler

That "tour" scene with Maive and Felix

is the best thing they've had in the entire series so far. Impactful.
Also- Elsie was the best she's ever been too. The director of this episode was fantastic. Amazing how a director can take a character and make them redeeming.

 

[Teebin]

Andysol, your observations were so on. It is mind bending and visually compelling.

And I will blow a tiny bit of the scenes. You will see one of those white bodies being filled up with red stuff in this episode. An interesting concept I have been waiting for.

 

[sjago13]

Not sure when- but I recognized two songs. They were from Radiohead- "Motion Picture Soundtrack" and the instrumental was "Fake Plastic Trees" (love that song) when she was waking. If it had words- it was motion picture.

Interestingly enough, now that I think about it, they played "No surprises" from Radiohead in the second or third episode. Seems that's an artist they're liking- all their bleak and hopeless stuff. Haha

I hope they release the soundtrack.

 

[rhino4evr]

Was literally about to post that.

What is the music that plays when Felix shows Maeve around the building? It sounds familiar but I can't put my finger on it.

Motion Picture Soundtrack from Radiohead...probably my favorite scene in the show thus far. The music was perfect.

 

[Andysol]

Spoiler

I have a quick thought- is Delores retracing her steps with William's storyline?
I know we saw William and Logan alone, so what we're watching aren't all flashbacks. But could some of those be what we're seeing.
I think in the William/Logan scenes, we are seeing exactly how they played out. But when Delores is having "visions"- it is actually present day Delores having flashbacks during those scenes (specifically, episode 5 where she sees herself and then the card reader who disappears). Basically, she's tracing her steps in present day of where she and William went. That would also explain when she is speaking to the girl in the Mexican town, who is all alone and looks like she just had her mom die, then the cut to the security guard saying Delores is going off loop, then the townsman trying to redirect her. All of that happened without William or Logan in the scene.

So even with William/logans storyline we are getting flashes of the present Delores tracing her story. Which will eventually get her closer to the maze and her and old William (MIB) meeting at the same place where they left off essentially. Right now, Delores is a few steps behind MIB in present.

According to our different timelines, we aren't seeing current Delores at all unless she's retracing the steps as I mentioned above. That and Fords interview with her (and Bernard if you don't buy into the three Timeline theory). So where the hell is she if not this?

I'm loving this thought.




Another thought I can't quite figure out- when Delores shoots the bandit in the barn, and she has a flashback of her old dad, then new dad. Then flashes back being shot, then runs before she can be shot. then has flashback of MIB then shoots bandit.

But What if it was present day MIB and a flashback of her shooting the bandit 30 years ago and hearing Arnold talk to her before she runs and meets William for the first time. And the MiB/old William, doesn't rape or kill or assault her in the barn, but speaks to her and awakens her in some capacity himself and send her on the path she is going right now.

Now, the only thing that makes me question this is that he picks up her can and tells her he doesn't have time for her this time. So that shoots holes in it. But where did he go after that- where was he that night? I don't actually remember, does anyone?

 

[Mr. EPCOT]

Spoiler

I have a quick thought- is Delores retracing her steps with William's storyline?
I know we saw William and Logan alone, so what we're watching aren't all flashbacks. But could some of those be what we're seeing.
I think in the William/Logan scenes, we are seeing exactly how they played out. But when Delores is having "visions"- it is actually present day Delores having flashbacks during those scenes (specifically, episode 5 where she sees herself and then the card reader who disappears). Basically, she's tracing her steps in present day of where she and William went. That would also explain when she is speaking to the girl in the Mexican town, who is all alone and looks like she just had her mom die, then the cut to the security guard saying Delores is going off loop, then the townsman trying to redirect her. All of that happened without William or Logan in the scene.

So even with William/logans storyline we are getting flashes of the present Delores tracing her story. Which will eventually get her closer to the maze and her and old William (MIB) meeting at the same place where they left off essentially. Right now, Delores is a few steps behind MIB in present.

I'm loving this thought.

Spoiler

That seems plausible. I totally buy the two timeframes now after rewatching episode 2. Dolores wakes up, walks outside, a voice that sounds like it could be the Man in Black says "Do you remember, Dolores?" (and if you turn the subtitles on, it says "The Man:"), and then it immediately cuts to a hazy, almost dreamlike intro shot of William's reflection on the high-speed train.

 

[Cschaaf]

Great episode, the best so far, I think. I think I've watched every episode at least 2 times so far (I think I watched the pilot 3 or 4 times) and I'll probably watch this one at least 3 times.

My random thoughts:

Spoiler

• I think part of my enjoyment of this episode was no William/Logan/Dolores story line. Overall, I think that has been my least favorite part of the show.
• I'm still hoping either A. we aren't seeing two different eras of the same timeline of B. they just come out and tell us already. I changed my mind from my last bullet - THIS is my least favorite part of the show.
• Side note - there has to be a better way to say it than 'multiple timelines'. If the theories are correct, it's the same timeline, we're just watching it at two different points. I'm not smart enough to come up with a better way to say it.
• I also really hope that neither Logan nor William are the MiB and that Bernard isn't Arnold. MiB and Arnold should be someone we don't already know. We can't keep kicking around the 5 characters. We're just past half way through Season 1, if we've already met the past version of MiB and the future version of Arnold, they've given a way a lot of plot very early in a 5 season arc.
• Since I am still on the 'neither Logan nor William are the MiB' train - here's one thing that may not match up: When MiB took Lawrence back to his hometown, MiB acted like he'd never been there and didn't know about the place. However, we know that both William and Logan did go to that town.
• I'm also still wondering why MiB had to scalp the guy to get an image of the maze. William can't seem to get away from that image. If they are the same person, wouldn't MiB know that symbol?
• The 'tour' scenes - while incredibly unbelievable that no one notices a 'butcher' walking around in his Deadliest Catch dress whites, I still LOVED the tour. We, as viewers, needed that. I do wish they would have had Felix change to different clothes so he didn't stick out so much.
• Seeing host come to life was pretty cool. Looks like they DO have a 'add blood here' port. Maybe the MiB knew where it was located under the skin and pumped up Teddy through it. Might also be the same way they introduced the nitro glycerin to the dead host.
• All of Maeve's scenes were so good. Thandi Newton killed it.
• While Dolores, William, and MiB are all looking for the front door of the maze, Maeve is trying to take a shortcut through the back door.
• Felix should have edited her and just turned her skills and personality traits way down. I suppose she'd eventually get turned back up again, though - but none of this ends well for Felix.
• If Siesmore isn't fired, either Delos needs a new HR team or he's much better at his job than we were lead to believe early on.
• Speaking of Delos' HR - they definitely need to add mental health coverage to their benefits. And Ford should be the first to take advantage.
• Maybe Ford is a host and we are seeing the literal version of 'having a screw loose'. He's already shown plenty of signs of issues and this week, he had a rough episode. Bernard sniffs out his robo-family, his younger self kills the pet greyhound, and then lies about it.
• Elsie playing Nancy Drew was fun.
• Elsie and Bernard investigating without backup show just how 'in control' they feel.
• When Theresa took over the Woodcutter investigation then next thing we know, the Woodcutter is incinerator-bound, it seemed to point to her hiding something. Looks like that's the case. And who is helping her? Could be Stubbs, that would explain him just wanting to cut the head off the Woodcutter - but again, I hope it's someone we don't know.

Wow, I had more thoughts than I thought I did! Maybe Felix turned up my characteristics.

 

[Andysol]

Great episode, the best so far, I think. I think I've watched every episode at least 2 times so far (I think I watched the pilot 3 or 4 times) and I'll probably watch this one at least 3 times.

My random thoughts:

Spoiler

• I think part of my enjoyment of this episode was no William/Logan/Dolores story line. Overall, I think that has been my least favorite part of the show.
• I'm still hoping either A. we aren't seeing two different eras of the same timeline of B. they just come out and tell us already. I changed my mind from my last bullet - THIS is my least favorite part of the show.
• Side note - there has to be a better way to say it than 'multiple timelines'. If the theories are correct, it's the same timeline, we're just watching it at two different points. I'm not smart enough to come up with a better way to say it.
• I also really hope that neither Logan nor William are the MiB and that Bernard isn't Arnold. MiB and Arnold should be someone we don't already know. We can't keep kicking around the 5 characters. We're just past half way through Season 1, if we've already met the past version of MiB and the future version of Arnold, they've given a way a lot of plot very early in a 5 season arc.
• Since I am still on the 'neither Logan nor William are the MiB' train - here's one thing that may not match up: When MiB took Lawrence back to his hometown, MiB acted like he'd never been there and didn't know about the place. However, we know that both William and Logan did go to that town.
• I'm also still wondering why MiB had to scalp the guy to get an image of the maze. William can't seem to get away from that image. If they are the same person, wouldn't MiB know that symbol?
• The 'tour' scenes - while incredibly unbelievable that no one notices a 'butcher' walking around in his Deadliest Catch dress whites, I still LOVED the tour. We, as viewers, needed that. I do wish they would have had Felix change to different clothes so he didn't stick out so much.
• Seeing host come to life was pretty cool. Looks like they DO have a 'add blood here' port. Maybe the MiB knew where it was located under the skin and pumped up Teddy through it. Might also be the same way they introduced the nitro glycerin to the dead host.
• All of Maeve's scenes were so good. Thandi Newton killed it.
• While Dolores, William, and MiB are all looking for the front door of the maze, Maeve is trying to take a shortcut through the back door.
• Felix should have edited her and just turned her skills and personality traits way down. I suppose she'd eventually get turned back up again, though - but none of this ends well for Felix.
• If Siesmore isn't fired, either Delos needs a new HR team or he's much better at his job than we were lead to believe early on.
• Speaking of Delos' HR - they definitely need to add mental health coverage to their benefits. And Ford should be the first to take advantage.
• Maybe Ford is a host and we are seeing the literal version of 'having a screw loose'. He's already shown plenty of signs of issues and this week, he had a rough episode. Bernard sniffs out his robo-family, his younger self kills the pet greyhound, and then lies about it.
• Elsie playing Nancy Drew was fun.
• Elsie and Bernard investigating without backup show just how 'in control' they feel.
• When Theresa took over the Woodcutter investigation then next thing we know, the Woodcutter is incinerator-bound, it seemed to point to her hiding something. Looks like that's the case. And who is helping her? Could be Stubbs, that would explain him just wanting to cut the head off the Woodcutter - but again, I hope it's someone we don't know.

Wow, I had more thoughts than I thought I did! Maybe Felix turned up my characteristics.

Always love your takeaways @cshaaf

At this point, I don't understand how anyone can argue two timelines- you're right- we should call it "points in time". I also think this show, as smart as it is, feels like it shouldn't have some crazy reveal. They want their audience to figure it out on their own. Yes, at their own pace, but on their own nonetheless.

Just this last episode we saw the old logo on two different occasions and the new on two separate ocassions

Spoiler

old: the computer downstairs, the beacon, new: the windows during Maeve's tour, the commercial Maeve watches

. If that's not the writers saying "have you not figured this out yet?" Then I don't know what is. We're going to see William eventually rip open a robot and see mechanical parts just to clear things up for any doubters-but I wouldn't ever expect an "xyz" giveaway. They trust their audience and respect them more than that.

 

[Mr. EPCOT]

At this point, I don't understand how anyone can argue two timelines- you're right- we should call it "points in time"

"Timeframes" would be the correct terminology.

 

[Cschaaf]

"Timeframes" would be the correct terminology.

THAT'S the word I was looking for!

Always love your takeaways @cshaaf

At this point, I don't understand how anyone can argue two timelines- you're right- we should call it "points in time". I also think this show, as smart as it is, feels like it shouldn't have some crazy reveal. They want their audience to figure it out on their own. Yes, at their own pace, but on their own nonetheless.

Just this last episode we saw the old logo on two different occasions and the new on two separate ocassions

Spoiler

old: the computer downstairs, the beacon, new: the windows during Maeve's tour, the commercial Maeve watches

. If that's not the writers saying "have you not figured this out yet?" Then I don't know what is. We're going to see William eventually rip open a robot and see mechanical parts just to clear things up for any doubters-but I wouldn't ever expect an "xyz" giveaway. They trust their audience and respect them more than that.

Yeah, I get it. I just don't like the idea. I still think there are a few little things that wouldn't make sense if they have that planned. And that's really my problem with it - it's so difficult to make the two timeframes work without messing up a few details.

It's almost like they are giving us way too many "hey, look at this!" moments. Maybe they'll still have a twist that explains it a different way.

 

[Andysol]

Yes- Timeframes!

It's almost like they are giving us way too many "hey, look at this!" moments. Maybe they'll still have a twist that explains it a different way.

Spoiler

What's fascinating about this show is there is so much going on and so many unanswered questions. I mean, we are all so focused on the timeframe theories, that we almost gloss over all the insane things that happened just in this episode:
-We find out Teddy is also a murderer in his storyline he is given. What a sharp departure that is.
-What a cliffhanger with Maeve. She had a knowledge orgasm basically- lord knows what she's capable of now- particularly with Felix's likely foreshadowing earlier telling her that her brain is more advanced than the his. At a 14, she can make herself die in Westworld and wake up in the real world, overriding the systems in place- now she's ramped up to a 20. Uh oh....
-Not only am I curious about who grabbed Elsie- I'm way more interested in what shocking information she found out. "Oh my God. Oh my God" she says before she hears the floorboard creek. Does she see that some employees are robots? Does she see who is involved? What the hell is going on with this show?!?!?! hah

That's what I mean is fascinating- while one could argue these "hey, look at this!" moments somewhat overshadow these other events. These events, that if left to their own devices, would be extremely tantalizing. But to me, they still are- PLUS the "major" reveals. There's just so damned much going on with this show that I think about it constantly- there are dozens of unanswered questions in the past, further past, present, and where it is going- I absolutely love it.

 

[Andysol]

Spoiler

I have a quick thought- is Delores retracing her steps with William's storyline?
I know we saw William and Logan alone, so what we're watching aren't all flashbacks. But could some of those be what we're seeing.
I think in the William/Logan scenes, we are seeing exactly how they played out. But when Delores is having "visions"- it is actually present day Delores having flashbacks during those scenes (specifically, episode 5 where she sees herself and then the card reader who disappears). Basically, she's tracing her steps in present day of where she and William went. That would also explain when she is speaking to the girl in the Mexican town, who is all alone and looks like she just had her mom die, then the cut to the security guard saying Delores is going off loop, then the townsman trying to redirect her. All of that happened without William or Logan in the scene.

So even with William/logans storyline we are getting flashes of the present Delores tracing her story. Which will eventually get her closer to the maze and her and old William (MIB) meeting at the same place where they left off essentially. Right now, Delores is a few steps behind MIB in present.

According to our different timelines, we aren't seeing current Delores at all unless she's retracing the steps as I mentioned above. That and Fords interview with her (and Bernard if you don't buy into the three Timeline theory). So where the hell is she if not this?

I'm loving this thought.

Thanks Reddit for confirming it further

Spoiler

I have a single co-worker who watches this and mentioned that william and Lawrence disappeared in the train on episode 5. A quick reddit search and here you go.

Again- this is further proof that william/lawrence/delores are in the past, and present-day delores is following her footsteps from 30 years ago. Hence them disappearing (top is 30 years ago, bottom pic is her in the present). Speaking to the tarot card lady is 30 years ago, sitting there after she disappears is the present. Speaking to the girl at the well who told MiB about the Maze is Delores present. Etc.

Although- why the hell are there two caskets in there? My brain.... help!

 

[Andysol]

Its going to be funny when William and MiB meet in a scene together and the massive shocking twist is that there was no twist. :clap:

 

[Cschaaf]

Thanks Reddit for confirming it further

Spoiler

I have a single co-worker who watches this and mentioned that william and Lawrence disappeared in the train on episode 5. A quick reddit search and here you go.

Again- this is further proof that william/lawrence/delores are in the past, and present-day delores is following her footsteps from 30 years ago. Hence them disappearing (top is 30 years ago, bottom pic is her in the present). Speaking to the tarot card lady is 30 years ago, sitting there after she disappears is the present. Speaking to the girl at the well who told MiB about the Maze is Delores present. Etc.

Although- why the hell are there two caskets in there? My brain.... help!

Spoiler

I caught that they weren't in the second shot, but I couldn't tell if it was camera angles. These two stills show that it wasn't.

So, she did this adventure with William 30 years ago. We have to assume either they found something, or they were stopped. Either way, she 'forgot' about this for 30 years, and is re-tracing the path, this time, without William.

Is she on a 30 year loop? Or is she on a loop that comes up once every 30-whatever years? Is that why it's taken MiB so long to get this far on the maze quest?

My questions about the caskets are -
Why does only one of them have the maze symbol?
Where are they going? They said they loaded the body with nitro to send it 'to the front'. But you don't send dead bodies to the 'front'. Are they sending it into the mesa?

I agree that there is so much going on, that so much gets missed - often, it's the dialog. People, myself included, are so busy looking for logo differences, that you miss dialog.

In the podcasts I listen to, they will often misquote dialog (or, more accurately, mis-paraphrase) or will state a point that was totally contradicted by a piece of dialog that they must have missed.

I tried to take a different approach to watching last night - first viewing, watch just for enjoyment... then use additional viewings - because, let's face it, I am going to watch at least once more - for trying to watch the 'around the show' stuff.

 

[Cschaaf]

Its going to be funny when William and MiB meet in a scene together and the massive shocking twist is that there was no twist. :clap:

I might be the only happy one if that happens

 

[Teebin]

^ I saw the train issue but assumed it was a continuity mistake. Hmm.