Halloween Horror Nights 23 Speculation

[Jymmymack]

I remember when people said Carnival of Carnage was sooo IP heavy...looking back on it, that was nothing...The new trend is completely negating story or theme for IPs..Carnival and Ripped at least had an icon and an interactive website as well as many original houses and zones (at least ripped did)...The fact is the last two years have decreased in quality that once made HHNs great..in my opinion there is nothing holding it in the #1 spot anymore minus budget..HOS has been getting better and better and soon people will notice..

Carnival of Carnage had the exact same number of IP houses as last year. :inquisitive:

I agree about the overall icon thing and website, though. As I said earlier, it's not the presence of IP's, it's the execution.

 

[shiekra38]

Carnival of Carnage had the exact same number of IP houses as last year.:inquisitive:

I agree about the overall icon thing and website, though. As I said earlier, it's not the presence of IP's, it's the execution.

Indeed it did and it didn't bother me in the slightest..I agree with you that it is all execution..I can go along with an IP being present if everything is tied together...It's the disconnect and disunity of the event that is troubling..that leads to lack of quality

 

[Jymmymack]

Indeed it did and it didn't bother me in the slightest..I agree with you that it is all execution..I can go along with an IP being present if everything is tied together...It's the disconnect and disunity of the event that is troubling..that leads to lack of quality

Which has been my argument all along. Everybody jumps straight to "IPs are evvvvvvvilllll" rather than stepping back and saying "hey, what's different between this year and earlier years". Answer: execution. Using WD as a house and MULTIPLE SZs? That's a problem. Having a Cabin in the Woods house (if done correctly) not really a problem.

 

[romo]

sense i wasnt able to go last year and judge for myself and everybody no likey the zombies right now.. how was WD last year...come from both sides a WD fan and a not WD fan.

 

[Hockeyman55]

I had really no prior knowledge of WD last year when I went thru the house. We went fairly early in the night so it was still light out and it really killed the mood for me. I thought the house itself looked really well detailed and was cool seeing the walkers out front in the streets after. I would have liked to check it out later in the night but the line was nuts

 

[Splatter]

I don't think last year was bad because of IP's. Sure, WD is not a good IP for creative, but I find the notion that we're using more IP's than ever and THAT'S what the problem is to be ridiculous. And the events do come in waves of IP and non-IP. XVII had NOES, Friday the 13th, Chucky, Texas Chainsaw, The Thing, and Dead Silence. XIX had Saw, Chucky, Wolfman, Dracula, Frankenstein, and SS (which was basically a multi-IP house).
.

Proves the point of it can be done well. Besides the entire park a Walking Dead Scare Zone concept I don't have a giant isssue with the walking dead again. Last year being less IPs total there were only seven houses. So having Walking Dead, Penn and Teller, Silent Hill and Alice Cooper was a bit of a hurt because 60 percent of the event felt like IPs. compared to we only know we have three IP houses for sure and there is said to be eight this year. Yeah, it sucks that Walking Dead will be one of them...consecutively but if the house is original and well done than it is great to have as an eighth house.

 

[graspthesun]

My only experience with HHN was last year at USH. It's interesting to see the arguments that are being presented here because I don't think Hollywood has ever had an overarching theme. (Hell, they can't even theme two consecutive buildings there.) That all being said, I can definitely appreciate the concern with the WD scarezones engulfing the park. I don't care about an overarching theme, but there has to be balance. The hordes obviously weren't balance and having the whole street experience be based around 1/8 of the houses is also insane. I really hope the press release was a misspeaking or that they hear all of our complaining and quickly change their mind about it.

 

[Splatter]

The fact of the matter is, with HHN being as popular and typically crowded as it has become, to make non scare zone hordes work you HAVE to hire more actors. Actors spread out on the streets creates to weak of a ratio. I don't like to feel like I am looking to be scared.

 

[Uncle_Darren]

The good news is with everyone boycotting the event due to IP houses and it not being as original as previous years should mean that it should be really quiet walking around and every house should have no wait time. :thumbs:


Sarcasm is good for the soul......

 

[Felipe]

Boycotting doesn't work, or not unless it's a huge amount of people, and that's never gonna happen. That's why voicing our opinions is important.

Yes, they're a business, but all businesses look for customer satisfaction, so I'm all for pointing out what we don't like. It's constructive, and hopefully if they hear it enough, they will make adjustments. But if they don't hear about it, or from a substantial amount of people, they will not change.

My chief complaint is IPs taking over. Intellectual properties make business sense, and let's be honest, it's also cool to see your favorite horror movie, video game, or story come to life. But when it overpowers the original material, then there's a problem. As cool as it is to see you favorite whatever come to life, it's cooler, more eerie, and more interesting to go into a new house, with unexpected things, and with new and creative stuff going on. The unexpected makes it more exciting and more unsettling, which are great things for HHN.

I saw a lot of anti-IP (and anti-repeat-IP) feedback on Facebook/Twitter. Let's hope that it, together with people also giving similar feedback on surveys at the event, will push them to go back to their previous formula, which I think we can all agree was working great. Give us a new and interesting icon, give us a great interactive website to amp us up in anticipation, and then give us new and creative houses and scarezones. Throw in an IP or two, because they work, but don't make them the focus of the event. Let it be "HHN, featuring X and Y"... "Not X and Y and Z's HHN event".

I'm gonna make sure to fill out surveys at the end of each night, and I encourage everyone to do so as well. Let them know how you feel. I think (and really hope) it can make a difference.

 

[TylerDurden]

Boycotting doesn't work, or not unless it's a huge amount of people, and that's never gonna happen. That's why voicing our opinions is important.

Yes, they're a business, but all businesses look for customer satisfaction, so I'm all for pointing out what we don't like. It's constructive, and hopefully if they hear it enough, they will make adjustments. But if they don't hear about it, or from a substantial amount of people, they will not change.

My chief complaint is IPs taking over. Intellectual properties make business sense, and let's be honest, it's also cool to see your favorite horror movie, video game, or story come to life. But when it overpowers the original material, then there's a problem. As cool as it is to see you favorite whatever come to life, it's cooler, more eerie, and more interesting to go into a new house, with unexpected things, and with new and creative stuff going on. The unexpected makes it more exciting and more unsettling, which are great things for HHN.

I saw a lot of anti-IP (and anti-repeat-IP) feedback on Facebook/Twitter. Let's hope that it, together with people also giving similar feedback on surveys at the event, will push them to go back to their previous formula, which I think we can all agree was working great. Give us a new and interesting icon, give us a great interactive website to amp us up in anticipation, and then give us new and creative houses and scarezones. Throw in an IP or two, because they work, but don't make them the focus of the event. Let it be "HHN, featuring X and Y"... "Not X and Y and Z's HHN event".

I'm gonna make sure to fill out surveys at the end of each night, and I encourage everyone to do so as well. Let them know how you feel. I think (and really hope) it can make a difference.

I think the general public likes IPs a lot. Its us hardcore Universal/HHN that feel nostalgic over the originality of years' past. Lets not lie and say we still dont enjoy HHN even when its a majority IP event...they still reel us all in. But they also reel in a broader audience that cant relate to insane clowns and snuff movie directors, but want to see their favorite shows and movies coming to life.

HHN was largely targeting a niche market before, and like any event that begins to 'sell out' its going to have a negative reaction from a very vocal fambase. But its going to have a majority of people who love what they see.

Really, its not just about money--a lot of people will be very happy with the even this year just because of its focus on TWD, and Universal has to decide who they want to cater to more. Unfortunately, I think we are in the minority

 

[Capacity]

Although we aren't necessarily seeing so much creativity in terms of an original storyline, the same people are still designing these houses. Isnt that what really matters?

 

[USO92]

^^Not really lol. I'm not gonna spend my money just because of the name behind the house. If the quality is bad I dont care if you're Dwayne Johnson, I aint paying to see it.

 

[Jakemeister]

I don't think a lot of you saw this. But it gives an interesting insight into the event.

Bryan Forsberg
we want an icon Michael Aiello

Michael Aiello We all want many things, my good man.

Bryan Forsberg the past was better than the present and future

Chris Redfield Maybe he means... we want YOU as the icon... now there's a scary thought

AJ Marrone Lol. We just want a good hhn lmfao!

Michael Aiello As you grow older you will find that more and more... It's all perspective... No Hhn has ever beaten my first Hhn...

Kevin Contini The event does NOT need an icon to kick major rears. Leave Michael be and let them deliver what has the potential to be an awesome event.

Michael Aiello Remember the past....do not dwell... It will fog your vision and bar any new opportunities...

Bryan Forsberg http://websites.horrornights.be/2006site_After/orlando/index.php

Halloween Horror Nights 2006
websites.horrornights.be
Halloween Horror Nights at Universal Orlando Resort will bring your deepest and darkest nightmares to life.

Chris Redfield yea but "nobody beats (H)off!"
well... "WE DO!"

Michael Aiello It's all good... Listen I wouldn't respond if I didn't want a conversation

Bryan Forsberg ^ true icons that make hhn what it should be

Michael Aiello Bryan there is no need to to post the site... I helped create it

Michael Aiello And yes they are amazing icons...

Bryan Forsberg the you should know then

Bryan Forsberg 70% of the people in here do not know if

Bryan Forsberg it*

Michael Aiello I do brother... I do.

Timothy Amesquita hey micheal will we see the lantern again in the future hhn to come?

Michael Aiello Everything has its place... Everything has its time...

Anthony Casalino Hey Michael what ever you do it's fine with use as long as you listen to some of are needs and put your own crazy twist on it we are all happy like thanks for bringing back HU and LT

Anthony Casalino Us*

Bryan Forsberg nothing against you. i spoke my mind several times. if i wanted to watch a netflix movie then i would sit on the couch.

Chris Redfield -cough- ONLY 7 YEARS UNTIL THE NEXT "SEASON OF THE QUEEN" -cough-

Michael Aiello Your needs, my needs ,their needs ,everyone's needs... Hhn's needs ....

Bryan Forsberg i cant watch an icon(jack, caretaker, etc) from my house. i go to hhn for that

Michael Aiello Bryan no offense but you generalize... IP content at Hhn is hardly a Netflix popcorn night...

Anthony Casalino hell yeah and bryan you're being way to pushy if you think you can do any better go apply

Michael Aiello This not an attack thread, gang. I refuse to participate in that.

Michael Aiello Bryan your wants are well received

Chris Redfield HHN's needs: Killer Klowns from Outer Space, more shows, more fire effects in streets, sliders, sushi bar (it could happen)...

Michael Aiello Like I said... all in time, my friend. Everything has its place.

Bryan Forsberg im good bro. this is my 14th year. i know a good event

Michael Aiello I am a singular voice in a large and populated room... Sometimes I get the megaphone sometimes other do...

Michael Aiello As do I.

Bryan Forsberg i know it does. i just want something different. not shows/tv. and i know the original hhn fans feel the same

Anthony Casalino i like the slider

Bryan Forsberg do you agree with me at all? or can you not say

Timothy Amesquita aren't they making sequel for killer klowns in outerspace

Michael Aiello I agree that original content has a place... I also agree that IP content has a place.

Anthony Casalino there is some movies I want to experience and others I would rather watch

Alana Hodyniak I'm not a fan of change right away, but I believe that you guys can pull it off Michael There is nothing wrong with trying new things Thank you for all of the hard work you do!

James Walker There's some kind of sushi bar in CitiWalk, Chris. Oh do you mean a sushi bar house? Like with this giant Lovecraftian Fishman with a banzai headband serving human flesh up on rice and nori?

Armando Quintero Bryan, as much as you seem to be passionate about the event. If it's come to the point where you don't like any of the offerings, then don't go. No one's honestly forcing you to attend. Skip a year and see if the next one tickles your fancy. You've been going for 14 years supposedly, you should know this by now.

Just an honest opinion.

Dana Trivino Michael you said it perfectly...I have never been able to top my first HHN and I couldn't even drink so that's pretty awesome!

Michael Aiello We can debate this all night but bottom line the event has a life of its own that hundreds of thousands of people enjoy...they all have an idea of what the would like to see...every year we extrapolate those wants and with many groups figure out what is best for the event. Battles we win some require more time and thought. In all decisions the hard core Hhn fan is considered...

James Walker Actually Mike, for me you guys have topped my first HHN many times. Of course my first one was Fright Nights in 1992.

Jarod Marcil I love how Michael's all wise and chill about this he's gotta be the HHN guru

Michael Aiello Glad to hear it, Doctor!

Anthony Casalino Well at least the Hardcore fans who show up year in year out monitor and voice are opinions are taken into account first

Brooke Brown I dont want an icon.

Michael Aiello Wise and chill yes.. Ha .. Also incredibly respectful of fellow fans.

James Walker Mike I know you have wanted a Lovecraft house for years hopefully someday the stars will be right and you'll get to do it.

Bryan Forsberg im not afraid to speak my mind about the event. Armando Quintero i will never skip a year. im very passionate about hhn. and thats why i will continue to speak up.

Armando Quintero Can't wait till you're running that twitter, Mike.

Victor Archambault I love walking thru some of my favorite movies etc...growing up im sure everyone watched a movie or a tv show and said boy i wish i could be there or i wonder how it would be if i was in this movie etc....going thru the IP's house's makes me feel like a kid which i LOVE.

Anthony Casalino It must be hard to be as chill as you are Michael Aiello for the reason we are all on here bombing you with questions and demands fpr future events and you have to hear some of the bad and just say we will try ... LOL

Jarod Marcil If my memory serves me right doc about two years ago in one of your famous videos you came up with a very good idea contributing bilge drat barges.

Matt Votino Listen guys leave them alone and enjoy the event for what it is. If we all had our way on what we'd want to see it'd be the largest cluster on earth. The past is the past. Enjoy your memories for what they were and look forward to all the new things they are planning to bring to us. And if you don't like it go enjoy some local all original haunts or howl o scream. Cause honestly you'll never find another halloween event done this well that features mant of our favorite horror films, tv, and games as well as original content. Let them do what they need to do to grow the event and make it the enjoyable experience it will be.

Michael Aiello All I ask of any fan is the same thing I ask myself and hold myself too... I try incredibly hard to never let my own judgement opinions cloud my perception to just take it in... This is no easy task mind you. It is hard...very hard but doable. I just have fun...let it ride and go on the journey...

Timothy Amesquita mike if you ever have a chance to do killer klowns from outer space in the future how would you do the cotton candy guns and cocoons?

Frank Potter Michael, my wife and I have gone every year since 1998. Some years are better than others but we always have a great time! I'm sure this year will be no different

Michael Aiello Hahah... Cocoons we'd build!!! The guns we would steal from NASA. I'm sure they have had them for years...

Anthony Casalino HAHAHA now you posted it NSA will be watching HAHAH

Timothy Amesquita lol it would be cool to see anyway keep up good work you guys

Onalise McMahon Hhn needs Dead Space and Isaac Clarke for a true fan girl experience...

Anthony Casalino wouldnt it be cool if the some how make a gun that sparys cotton candy and you get sticky going threw the house walk away with a little cotton candy on the shoulder hahah

Victor Archambault HHN needs sharknado!! no wait...forget that...

Bryan Forsberg hope it hits all the WKs

Onalise McMahon Bioshock would be far too hard but would make us all happy in our pants!

I thought I would poop my pants if I saw Pyramid Head but I you surely lose it if I saw Big Daddy!

Timothy Amesquita how is bioshock scary though?

Michael Aiello Thanks for the talk tonight gang and thanks Bryan Forsberg for starting it up!

 

[Felipe]

Thanks for posting that, Jake :thumbs: I think that was pretty commendable of Aiello. The snide remarks like the Netflix thing were unnecessary... I wish there would've been more well expressed comments or suggestions. Maybe Aiello would've still been vague in his responses, as I am sure he cannot reveal inner workings of the event, but at least it would've been more respectful and might have inspired a deeper interaction from him. I'm all for voicing opinions, including negative stuff, but there's a way to get a point across and have it well received, and it's not being snide... Oh well, at least the complaints about icons, and IPs, and better things from years past were acknowledged. Hopefully they can incorporate a bit more of what old-school-HHN fans want at the same time as the event continues to evolve.

I think the general public likes IPs a lot. Its us hardcore Universal/HHN that feel nostalgic over the originality of years' past. Lets not lie and say we still dont enjoy HHN even when its a majority IP event...they still reel us all in. But they also reel in a broader audience that cant relate to insane clowns and snuff movie directors, but want to see their favorite shows and movies coming to life.

HHN was largely targeting a niche market before, and like any event that begins to 'sell out' its going to have a negative reaction from a very vocal fambase. But its going to have a majority of people who love what they see.

Really, its not just about money--a lot of people will be very happy with the even this year just because of its focus on TWD, and Universal has to decide who they want to cater to more. Unfortunately, I think we are in the minority

I am honestly not lying when I say I will enjoy the HHN experience less with the format change and less new unique creative stuff to discover that year. I will still go because I love haunts and they have the best production for an event of this kind, but it just won't be as wondrous to me as it has been in previous years. Again, I'm not saying don't use IPs, I'm saying incorporate them into a overall cohesive original theme and icon, and don't let it take over the event. It should be HHN first and then come the IPs. For honor of HHN, I would prefer for it to host IPs, not become about the IPs for that year. Even though the Usher wasn't my favorite icon, I think they did the IP thing well that year, incorporating them into the event. They satisfied both ends, the IPs had a place and the event still had a creative story and icon that encompassed the whole event; it all fit together and it was a HHN event first and a host to IPs second. If we're gonna have IPs, and we obviously will, I would just prefer for it to go that way. But that's just me...

 

[TylerDurden]

^I totally agree with you. But to most people, the IPs are what make HHN enjoyable. The majority of people in the world arent hardcore horror fans--they dont like macabre stories and dark themes. TWD is a phenomenon in that it has attracted so many people (even children) while still being classified as horror. So while most people cant relate to Jack the Clown and the Storyteller, they can relate to their favorite television show. And the best part for HHN is that while they gain a more mainstream audience, they dont lose their original fans. They dont lose a thing, really.

I just think that these boards arent a fair way to gauge the public's perception of the direction the event is taking. While we are mostly disappointed, Im sure there are lots of other places where people are exited beyond belief. Its one thing to sell out, but its another thing to welcome in a new audience. HHN is spending tons of money to get the rights to these properties--theyre definitely working to deliver to people.

At least we know theyll still deliver great quality houses.

 

[Clive]

^I totally agree with you. But to most people, the IPs are what make HHN enjoyable. The majority of people in the world arent hardcore horror fans--they dont like macabre stories and dark themes. TWD is a phenomenon in that it has attracted so many people (even children) while still being classified as horror. So while most people cant relate to Jack the Clown and the Storyteller, they can relate to their favorite television show. And the best part for HHN is that while they gain a more mainstream audience, they dont lose their original fans. They dont lose a thing, really.

I just think that these boards arent a fair way to gauge the public's perception of the direction the event is taking. While we are mostly disappointed, Im sure there are lots of other places where people are exited beyond belief. Its one thing to sell out, but its another thing to welcome in a new audience. HHN is spending tons of money to get the rights to these properties--theyre definitely working to deliver to people.

At least we know theyll still deliver great quality houses.

Aren't macabre stories and dark themes kind of the point of an adult-oriented Halloween event, though? TWD is certainly a phenomenon, but part of the reason I don't think it works at HHN is it's not really a horror series - it shouldn't be classified as horror. It's a drama that happens to include zombies as a catalyst for human conflict. There are no humans in the HHN attractions, so none of that conflict is there - leading to a very underwhelming, shallow experience. I don't really think many watch TWD for the Walkers alone.

I also disagree with the assessment that you can't relate to Jack the Clown or The Storyteller. Jack is the event's most popular, enduring icon by far, and it's because TONS of people can relate to a fear of clowns. The Storyteller was never as popular (though she was also a half-baked idea), but her premise is still simple enough - she's a creepy old lady who kills people. People get that, it's creepy. The event used to be able to sell out fairly consistently with only original content - look at the mid-2000's. 2006 in particular I know was crazy sellout crowds for many nights... while 2007 was sort of the peak before attendance to the event plummeted in 2008 due to the tanking economy.

Let's keep in mind here that while 2012 had crazy crowds, it only sold out one night. That still pales in comparison to years' past. Lines were up due to less things to do, not more bodies in the streets (except on certain nights).

This method of marketing (which I stand by is extremely lazy) is very short-sighted and will not work long term. You can only use Walking Dead for so many years before the public tires of it (especially when the product offered does not meet expectations like last year's house), and then what? What other demographic-crossing property is out there that hasn't been used yet? You can't burn out the general public on these big flashy IPs while under-delivering in their execution because then they won't come back, and they'll tell their friends to skip it. Then you're in a rut, and I guess they can blame it on original content again like they did in 2008.

 

[TylerDurden]

Yes, fear of clowns is relatable, but it freaks people out--the darkness of some of the icons isolated people. The reason the mid-2000s sold out more often was 1. The smaller capacity of IOA, and 2. Universal's growing lenience on capacity restrictions with more FFP's being sold and more rides being opened.

Even then, its not just attendance that matters--its merchandise sales as well.

I loved HHN for its originality, but it freaked a lot of other people out (remember the controversy over the Blood Mary bilboards in 2008?) When people see something familiar (not necesarily relatable, I apologize for using that word) they will be more drawn to it/more comfortable with it.

 

[Felipe]

I don't think the introduction of IPs has anything to do with leveling the amount of darkness of the event. This is Halloween HORROR Nights. It's always been and will always be a haunt event. They strive to scare us and freak us out. And also, the IPs they're using are sick, violent, gory IPs. I think you're off base on that argument.

As Fallow pointed out, the event had done well in the past, before current popular IPs came into play. It's just the new strategy they're adopting now to keep growing. Obviously what's popular will cater to a bigger crowd, what I am suggesting, or hoping is that they make a compromise, not compromise the integrity of the whole event, so far that it's not a HHN event, but an event all about IPs and little to no original HHN-team created content.

 

[Clive]

Yes, fear of clowns is relatable, but it freaks people out--the darkness of some of the icons isolated people. The reason the mid-2000s sold out more often was 1. The smaller capacity of IOA, and 2. Universal's growing lenience on capacity restrictions with more FFP's being sold and more rides being opened.

Even then, its not just attendance that matters--its merchandise sales as well.

I loved HHN for its originality, but it freaked a lot of other people out (remember the controversy over the Blood Mary bilboards in 2008?) When people see something familiar (not necesarily relatable, I apologize for using that word) they will be more drawn to it/more comfortable with it.

Of course it freaks people out. That's the point, it's a horror event, it's in the name! People go to get scared! All of these themes and ideas and icons are dark because horror is an inherently violent, creepy, unsettling, disturbing genre - if it wasn't, it would be horror! I wasn't referring to the years in which HHN was in Islands of Adventure. The park sold out many a time in 2006 in which the event was featured squarely in the Studios. Multiple houses would regularly draw 2 hour waits, and they had to open up Marvel Super Hero Island to ease capacity because they oversold on tickets. Keep in mind this is when they had 3 shows (4 in 2007). 2006 is a great year to compare to 2012 because they both had 7 houses, though 2006 did have that extra show and a whole mess of other rides open. When was the last time they had to open Marvel to ease capacity concerns at HHN? The amount of rides on the roster has been steadily reduced, not widened.

Do you have merchandise sales data that I don't? These ticket sales are like gravy on top of day admissions, first of all, but it seems like merchandise sales are pretty steady every year. If anything, the IP focused shirts are the ones that don't seem to sell... there was a surplus of Freddy Krueger and SAW shirts on clearance in the last weekends of those respective events. Are we really going to act like those franchises aren't popular? Booze sells no matter what.

Again: It's supposed to freak people out. That's supposed to be the selling point, their job is to scare people and make them want to go to be scared (that's kind of the premise for horror movies). If they're trying to appeal to an audience that doesn't enjoy horror content, then I give up on this event - but that's not what's happening, or we wouldn't have Resident Evil, The Evil Dead, and Cabin in the Woods at the event, since those are undeniably horror properties (though the latter is more of a parody and is likely to be framed as the year's humor house). That argument doesn't really make sense at all. Comfort isn't really the goal.

I don't think the introduction of IPs has anything to do with leveling the amount of darkness of the event. This is Halloween HORROR Nights. It's always been and will always be a haunt event. They strive to scare us and freak us out. And also, the IPs they're using are sick, violent, gory IPs. I think you're off base on that argument.

As Fallow pointed out, the event had done well in the past, before current popular IPs came into play. It's just the new strategy they're adopting now to keep growing. Obviously what's popular will cater to a bigger crowd, what I am suggesting, or hoping is that they make a compromise, not compromise the integrity of the whole event, so far that it's not a HHN event, but an event all about IPs and little to no original HHN-team created content.

Yes, this. The event was arguably more popular in some of its original years - though 2007 seems to be the king in terms of success, which combined originality AND IPs in a way that most fans seemed to enjoy. If we got a 2007 style presentation? I'd be pretty happy. Marketing gets their IPs, A&D gets their original content, passion projects, and storytelling, fans get their icon and proper website & buildup.