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Blackfish (The Tillikum Documentary)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Eckert
  • Start date Start date Jun 19, 2013
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Disneyhead

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  • Dec 20, 2013
  • #81
All but 3 of SeaWorld's whales were bread in captivity. There is no way that they can release these whales into the open ocean. They have no pods, except for their mother's ( which were bread in captivity) and their trainers.

The whole release that the killer whales back out on to the streets thing is radical liberal talking points stuff.
 
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maxairmike

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  • Dec 20, 2013
  • #82
I don't know if there's an answer that anyone can give that would 100% counter the separation question considering the response that SeaWorld gave. These are, after all, mostly captive-bred orcas we're talking about, and their social structure may be different from wild-only groups. The only ones really able to answer that question completely would be...SeaWorld. The lifespan question is a little easier, but still nothing near cut and dry. How many wild orcas have been tagged for long-term research? Has the research been going on long enough or have the right methodology to provide an adequate answer?
 
Kevin38

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  • Dec 21, 2013
  • #83
Seaworld need to bring up the fact the whales they have are an backstop if wild whales are killed off .
They will not go extinct
They need to stress they are a Noah's ark of marine animals
 
natespf

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  • Dec 21, 2013
  • #84
^^ Most of the press release was points that I already knew, those were the two that I did not know the facts on. Though they are in opposition to accusations made in Blackfish, which merely called to emotions and did not explain or clearly demonstrate the points. But I don't know if SeaWorld has elaborated any further in resent times.
 
USO92

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  • Dec 22, 2013
  • #85
Watching this right now.

It doesnt surprise me that this comes from CNN. It also doesnt surprise me that they used previous employees and tugged at your heart strings to convey their point. I'm not even 30 minutes into this piece of garbage and I already know that it's nothing but spewed bias.

The only thought that keeps running through my mind is, it's just an animal.

I highly am saddened by the deaths that happened but being a trainer wouldn't you expect the unexpected? Wouldnt you atleast have an awareness that swimming with a giant, KILLER whale might produce something bad?

Dare I say that while people are angered by whales being "mistreated" there are human beings being murdered every single day? Babies, teens, adults? And the only outcry I hear is over a whale who was raised in a large tank who was acting as just what he was...a killer whale.

The anger here is not about the people dying...thats what makes me mad. They're using these deaths as a push to accomplish their own goals.

Garbage. Garbage. Garbage.

UPDATE: Honestly all of this is futile. If people are gonna make a muck of conservation, or the lack of, then why do we even have these parks?
 
Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
Octobers Fade

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  • Dec 22, 2013
  • #86
Great response form a former employee

A Former SeaWorld Employee's Response to "Blackfish"
December 21, 2013 at 1:44pm
I've been asked often and recently about my opinions towards this "amazing documentary" that "just came out" on Netflix called "Blackfish". Having worked for SeaWorld for a few years, people are always curious as to what my opinion is.

"Julie, have you seen it? What do you think?"

Yes. I have seen it, multiple times. My opinion of it is this: I completely respect and agree with the underlining message- whales do not belong in captivity... but neither does any other animal (more on that later). I do, however, find the movie's portrayal of SeaWorld to be horribly offensive and misleading. SeaWorld is not a monster.

"But Julie, SeaWorld uses animals for entertainment purposes, isnt this wrong?"

Thank you, PETA. Yes, SeaWorld is an entertainent based industry. People all over the world come to see these marvelous animals up close, eat a churro, and then ride the latest roller coaster.

But before you go all animal activist on me, think about what your saying. Have you ever been to a zoo? Aquarium? Pet store? All of these animals were placed there to entertain, excuse me, educate you. And they dont quite do it to SeaWorld's standards (Ill get to this later).

"But Julie, SeaWorld took these whales out of their natural environment".

False. The majority of the whales at SeaWorld were born in the park. Yes, a few were captured more than 35 years ago, but that is how animals were acquired those days.

And frankly, where do you think the animals at your favorite zoo came from? Contrary to popular belief, these animals are not usually "rescues".

And to be even more frank, how many of you have a home aquarium??? Where do you think these fish came from? That's right. They're captured from their native environment, oftentimes shocked, meanstwhile depleting coral reefs in hopes that these stressed fish might make it to your aquarium, where, lets face it, they usually die.

"But Julie, the tanks the whales are in are like bathtubs"

Ugh. This one gets to me the most. At least use your own wording! Yes, the exhibits the whales are in are no where close to being the size of the ocean. But they are VASTLY larger than the size of most animal enclosures. True, these animals can swim hundreds of miles a day.... but think about other enclosures. Elephants can walk up to 40 miles a day and yet I rarely see an enclosure larger than 2000 ft.

And bird cages? Fish tanks? Why is it that no one is offended by any of this?! It's okay to put a goldfish in a bowl but not okay to have whales in a 60 million gallon environment? An enclosure that SeaWorld has spent over 70 million dollars to improve?

"But Julie, these animals are forced to perform shows. They're slaves."

Inaccurate. The whales at SeaWorld are never forced to do shows. They get an alloted amount of restaurant quality food based off of their fitness level, size, and metabolism. And they are fed regardless of if they do a show.

"But Julie, it's cruel to force these animals to do "tricks".

These "tricks" are actually positively reinforced behaviors that the whales have learned through positive interactions and operant conditioning. Studies have shown that learned behaviors like this actually increase an animals mental health prolonging their fitness and increasing quality of life.


"But whales dont do flips in the wild"

....and your dog doesnt naturally give you his paw when he wants a treat, but he is capable. Training behaviors like this, once again, encourages mental and physical growth. If the whales were incapable, they wouldnt do it.

"Cant they just stop making the whales do shows?"

Sure, but there is no positive reprocussion to that. Without enrichment, whales would resort to common boredom behaviors seen in zoos and institutions around the world. Plus, the interations the whales have with the trainers is a form of bonding for the whales. If they suddenly discontinued, the whales would display depression behaviors. I dont know about you, but I am highly against intentional depression.

"Cant you release them? They'll be happier"

Look up the story of Keiko, the whale from "Free Willy." That's what happens when you release a captive killer whale. They are not equipped to live in the open ocean environment anymore.

"Okay, what about a seapen then? Its bigger and the whales would be interact with their natural environment"

These whales currently thrive in multi-sourced continually filtered water environment. These means they are never exposed to pathogens, parasites, or heavily contaminated water. Putting them in a sea pen would expose them to a variety of potentially killer organisms. Not only that but they would be exposed to countless amounts of new sights, sounds, and vibrantions, causing an immense amount of stress.

"But Julie, there is absolutely no benefit to having these poor creatures at SeaWorld."

SeaWorld has impacted the lives of over 400 million visitors over the timespan they've been in business. That is 400 million people that have been affected by the beauty of not only the killer whales, but of over 6000 species of animals they would not come in contact with on a normal basis.

"SeaWorld is not educational".

Excuse me? The top leading research done on both killer whales and other cetaceans comes from SeaWorld sponsored research. Most of what we know today about these animals has been learned from animals in captivity.

"Cant we learn simply by observing them in the wild?"

Theoretically, sure. But any scientist (or grad student) will tell you how difficult it is to study animals in the wild. You can sit and observe 24 hours a day and only witness about 15 minutes of usable data.

And good luck funding that research. It's an unfortunate fact that people do not support things that do not benefit them directly. SeaWorld contributes millions upon millions of dollars to variety of conservation programs in the wild, including the Marine Mammal protecion act and Sea Turtle conservation. Finding funding from a private, independent source is unlikely and unreliable.

"Okay... well... umm... what about the dorsal fin thing?"

Dorsal fins are made out of cartilage, a flexible structure that makes up your nose and ears. The size of the dorsal fin is cause by a multitude of things, including genetics. Many of our whales come from a similar bloodline (not crossbred) and therefore have larger dorsal fins.

Although not common in the wild, a whale's dorsal fin, especially larger ones, may bend. This may be an effect from more surface exposure combined by genetics. There have been no indications that this affects the animals well-being in any way. It's a fact of life. Sometimes we get droopy body parts too....

"Why can't SeaWorld just go to be all educational? Obviously people would respect it more."

Nature Centers and educational facilities are amazing ideas and do many great things. Unfortunately, not many people go out of their way to visit them and they can go out of business (Chula Vista Nature Center...anyone?). People, unfortunately, are selfish beings. They want to be entertained, not lectured. So although the conservation message is taught at many of these amazing facilities, they are not affecting as many people as you would think.

SeaWorld's message is this: to celebrate, connect, and care for the natural world we share through the power of entertainment. People come into the parks with an expectation and leave with an appreciation of marine life they've never had before. I cannot begin to tell you how many kids Ive heard say that Shamu changed their life. That they want to stop polluting the ocean. That they want to save the sea turtles. SeaWorld is a memory that they will have forever and oftentimes changes their entire outlook on life.

So, before you boycott SeaWorld, realize that you're not boycotting the evil corporation "Blackfish" makes it out to be. You're boycotting Bruce, the 80 year old sea turtle who was rescued not only once, but twice after being shot in the head and left for dead by people who didn't care. You're boycotting Iris, the rescued seal who was found stranded and blind and then rereleased, able to see again. You're boycotting the 650 juvenille sea lions rehabilitated and taught to eat after they were stranded on the Pacific Coast. You're boycotting the baby emperor pengiuns, just hatched, ensuring the future families of penguins to come. You're boycotting the hundreds of dogs adopted from shelters thanks to Pets Rule. You're boycotting the group of high schoolers collecting trash off the shoreline after talking to the veterinary department behind the scenes and seeing the effects of trash in our ocean.

If you need a summary of what SeaWorld is today, I ask you to look at me as a reflection. To look at the 1500 zoological team members that provide the upmost care to these animals. SeaWorld is one of the worlds most respected zoological facilities, setting the bar for husbandry standards today. We are SeaWorld. We are the people who cant drive by a lost dog on the street. We're the people who stay awake overnight, waist deep in frigid water carrying a stranded dolphin that wasn't strong enough to swim. We're the ones that cry the moment a sea turtle swims off into the ocean water after being hit by a boat. We are the ones whose heart rate accelerates the moment a mother gives birth to a beautiful calf. We're the ones whose muscles ache after scrubbing oil off of birds trapped after a spill. We're the ones hand feeding that abandonded baby otter in the wee hours of the night.

So once again, don't believe everything you see and don't assume you know everything because a "documentary" tells you so. Educate yourself. SeaWorld is not the enemy, there are bigger evils in the world. We do not go out of our way to torture and "enslave" animals. We love and know more about those animals than "Blackfish" would ever care to let you know. It is because of SeaWorld, and places like them, thst you even care about these animals in the first place. I am very proud to be a part of the SeaWorld family and always will be.
Click to expand...
 
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bobwadd

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  • Dec 22, 2013
  • #87
Great find, OF :thumbs: :rep:

This is the type of response I've been waiting for.
 
GAcoaster

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  • Dec 23, 2013
  • #88
^^ Perfectly sums up everything I have seen and know about SeaWorld.
 
shiekra38

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  • Dec 23, 2013
  • #89
Side note: Always thought it would be cool if the made the Sea World lagoon into a killer whale habitat...would cost millions I'm sure
 
L

Legolas813

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  • Dec 23, 2013
  • #90
Oceanic Preservation Society issues response to SeaWorld's open letter:

http://www.opsociety.org/PressReleases/SeaWorldOpenLetterRebuttal-OPS.pdf

USO92 said:
It doesnt surprise me that this comes from CNN.
Click to expand...

CNN had nothing to do with this movie. They just paid to air it on TV, months after the movie theater run was over. There had been some social media campaigning to get a cable channel to air the movie so more people could see it.
 
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Ultimate17

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  • Dec 23, 2013
  • #91
I'm not any type of marine biology expert, but, I looked up who the OPS is, and its a few photographers and film people. I'm not sure why you posted this link. Was it to further expose the lack of scientific support behind the opponents of Sea World? One of the OPS board claims to have a minor in Biology, and that is the only shred of evidence suggesting they would have any credibility behind their statements. I minored in English, but I am nowhere near an expert. Take it for what you will, but personally, I only tend to trust reputable sources.....
 
Brervixen

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  • Dec 23, 2013
  • #92
I haven't read all the replies, or bucked up the balls to watch blackfish yet. BUT I do know a bit about animal behviour, and whilst the animals at SeaWorld may get the best care, you're never going to fully recreate life in the ocean for these mammals and/or fish in tanks. Oceans are VAST tanks aren't. There's not enough space/resources/stimulation that doesn't involve a clicker and rewards.

I had to leave SeaWorld in 2009, as watching the Beluga Whales displaying very bad stereotype behaviours became too upsetting. I didn't even go near the Orcas.

When an animal's only source of stimulation is "clicker training" - this becomes their sole focus... it's not too good. There's been a lot of use of clicker training in horses recently, and they've started to see a LOT of frustration in horses when the trainer mis-times a cue or reward. There's even been reported cases of some horses getting sexually aroused as the clicker training stimulates the same area of the brain as sexual arousal. It's not good if it's the sole focus of the animals life.
 
L

Legolas813

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  • #93
Ultimate17 said:
I'm not any type of marine biology expert, but, I looked up who the OPS is, and its a few photographers and film people. I'm not sure why you posted this link. Was it to further expose the lack of scientific support behind the opponents of Sea World? One of the OPS board claims to have a minor in Biology, and that is the only shred of evidence suggesting they would have any credibility behind their statements. I minored in English, but I am nowhere near an expert. Take it for what you will, but personally, I only tend to trust reputable sources.....
Click to expand...

That is just what I saw passed around the Blackfish community. Just forwarding other opinions. I don't know why everyone here is so quick to defend and trust a mega for-profit corporation. I saw so many "thank you SeaWorld!" posts on the Internet after the open letter was released and I'm sure that most of those people really don't care what was in the actual letter, just that their favorite park was fighting back. I am a fan of SeaWorld and a passholder, I just don't understand how these companies get people to defend them so fiercely as if they can do no wrong. Reminds me of the ludicrous console wars.
 
GAcoaster

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  • Dec 23, 2013
  • #94
Legolas813 said:
CNN had nothing to do with this movie. They just paid to air it on TV, months after the movie theater run was over. There had been some social media campaigning to get a cable channel to air the movie so more people could see it.
Click to expand...

CNN did not make the movie, but they did purchase it from the producer and are the distributors of the movie, and they are profiting from it.
 
Nick

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  • Dec 23, 2013
  • #95
Just watched IGN's Top 10 movies you might have missed for 2013. "Blackfish" came in at #8.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/12/2...2013?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook
 
O

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  • Dec 23, 2013
  • #96
Glad to see SeaWorld defending themselves a bit more. Personally, I defend them because of what they and other similar institutions do to inspire and educate. If it weren't for growing up with SeaWorld and the Columbus Zoo both an hour from home (two of the finest zoological institutions in the world), I know I wouldn't have anywhere near the appreciation for the natural world around me. While SeaWorld achieves their goals with the public mostly through entertainment, their importance and impact is no less because of that. The sense of wonder and amazement from the shows drives interest in the animals themselves, and also in the institution and conservation efforts. Taken at simple "face value," the shows are very easy to overlook and dismiss, but the emotional connections they make are huge.
 
natespf

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  • #97
GAcoaster said:
CNN did not make the movie, but they did purchase it from the producer and are the distributors of the movie, and they are profiting from it.
Click to expand...

I am not sure if this has been posted but SeaWorld responded to CNN back in Oct. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/21/us/seaworld-blackfish-qa
 
Cwoolboy

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  • Jan 1, 2014
  • #98
I recently saw Blackfish. It didn't really do anything for me. It is a highly manipulative film that clearly has it's own agenda. I agree that keeping Orcas in captivity may not be the.best idea, and the film does make a convincing argument for this, I was just turned off by the way the film presented it's material.
 
Octobers Fade

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  • #99
Interesting read.


http://********.com/53915-blackfish-exposed/
 
Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
ynnoj

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  • #100
Octobers Fade said:
Interesting read.

http://********.com/53915-blackfish-exposed/
Click to expand...

Your link is invalid.
 
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