Disney's NextGen Initiative

[Mike]

It's rather funny and sad.

When the theme park industry grew in the U.S., it was accepted by everyone that there was nothing wrong with visitors waiting in line in the order that they showed up. It wasn't given second thought. Disney comes about prior to the Millennium and gives away basically exit passes in exchange for what they believe will be an increase in spending for high-margin purchases (2nd meals, souvenirs, in-park tours, resort spa treatments, etc.). Disney doesn't really add capacity to help offset the fact that visitors with these passes are now waiting in more than one "line" at any one time. Other parks see what Disney does and monetizes these direct benefit passes (Six Flags, Uni). Disney starts removing capacity, grows attendance and room counts (DVC) at the same time, and gives more passes out and spreads their availability on more attractions. Then/now Disney sees no real increase in revenue off of F&B and gift sales, looks at the other parks making money off the direct sale of passes, says "wait a minute" and we are about to get FP+. Nevermind the 1.5$ billion spent to offer such a 'nice perk.

Would be a good paper by Ian Malcolm. Disney finds a way....

 

[Hockeyman55]

Excuse me?...QUARTERLY?!?! This is news to me...so I will get an ALLOTMENT of Fast passes I can use within each quarter? Do they roll over if I don't use them? Where is this info posted?

That's one of the rumors I have heard. Nothing official yet

 

[SirLink]

All I know is that EVERYONE (from Winn Dixie to Target) that has a Data Mining Program, part of the reason they have it is so that they can profit from selling the info gathered. I don't see why Disney would be any different.

Here here, certain folks on teh interwebz called me a crazy coot when I suggested that...the useful information is that say you have three dining reservation in a trip you have the pork every time and it costs Disney 10x to charge 20x for it they will push you to menu items that cost 5x to charge 20x for. Then they can sell that information about how they got the X demographic from eating pork to tofu - I am sure a lot of franchises would love that information...

There are some quite unsavory things coming in the way they promote merchandise to you in the park - used car salesman like ... I personally don't like going on holiday to a used car lot.

 

[IzzyB]

This program is a lot more than an electronic Express Pass. That I wouldn't mind at all. This is going to be a massively tiered system. And APers are going to really get screwed with this program unless you plan your day trips 60 days in advance. So enjoy your FP+ reserved ride time on Aladdin's Flying Carpet or The Great Movie Ride, because the resort guests are going to suck up all the FP+s for the popular attractions like TSMM, Soarin' or Space Mountain by noon 60 days before your day trip.

I have said before, I reserve judgement until the system is fully implemented. Because we have no clue if they are going to hold back a certain amount per time slot for those people who come to the park that day looking for fast passes. Also, I don't think everyone plans that far in advance for them to be snatched up that quickly. I could be wrong, but everyone I know that vacations down here they don't reserve stuff right as soon as they plan their trip. I have no issues getting reservations at restaurants even just a day before and sometimes the day of I can still get something.

 

[Mike]

I have said before, I reserve judgment until the system is fully implemented. Because we have no clue if they are going to hold back a certain amount per time slot for those people who come to the park that day looking for fast passes. Also, I don't think everyone plans that far in advance for them to be snatched up that quickly. I could be wrong, but everyone I know that vacations down here they don't reserve stuff right as soon as they plan their trip. I have no issues getting reservations at restaurants even just a day before and sometimes the day of I can still get something.

Not trying to pick on you Izzy, but I think there are some things that are pretty clear regardless of all the NextGen unknowns. Are some third tier restaurants or third tier seating times available? Sure. I know I can always eat at Kona Cafe or Nine Dragons. However for years there have been wide-spread reports of no luck in trying to get into Le Cellier, Royal Table, Beast, Chef Mickey, etc., you know the popular, low-capacity places. The same could be said about the more popular attractions and FP+. It is never hard to get a walk-up FP now for The Land, but try for Soarin', right?

What Disney knows better than anyone is that this is a numbers game through and through. That capacity in relationship to Supply & Demand dictates all. They can stand outside the train station and wish every guest a Magical Day all they want, but they can't change math. You said, "Also, I don't think everyone plans that far in advance for them to be snatched up that quickly." Well, it doesn't take many people to tip the scales. I agree with you, a lot of people in the grand scheme of overall attendance do not plan that far in advance. We have become accustomed to calling those people Standby riders and/or Quick Service customers. Part of this whole My Magic sales pitch by Disney is to get MORE people planning ahead of time, to the frustration of those who are very comfortable with the current status quo. Not that I am about to defend those folks!

Here is the math that Disney can't avoid with their Magical Wishes. Pick a ride in your head, I don't care, I just don't want to get in the weeds on a specific attraction. Say that ride on a great operational day without downtime can handle 1,400 guests per hour, and say the park it is located in sees 45,000 guests with that attraction operating for 14 hours of the day. At 14 hours the ride will accommodate 19,600 guests. Disney can think its a great ride, guests can think its a great ride, Disney can mess with FP+ distribution ratios, guests can get there super early and stand in as long of a line as it takes, but at the end of the day the attraction will not seat one more rider past 19,600. However, the park has had 45,000 guests. That means only 43.5% of the people in the park that day, at best, have a chance of riding that ride.

I am saying this to show that the current system barely manages to function now specifically because of what you call out. That not many people plan in advance. With Disney encouraging more and more people to do so, the system is well on its way to crashing. Hence, the addition of more FP+ attractions and the brackets in which you can't just pick the level A attractions, you have to pick a few level B's or whatever the brackets are called. I stopped paying attention a while ago.

So I appreciate your positive attitude towards the potential of this, and towards giving Disney the benefit of the doubt. However after watching the havoc the old FP has caused on operations and the $$$$ Disney has sunk into the old FP, not even considering the NextGen costs, I can't be any more disappointed with the entire direction of this "free" perk.

I wish it were to all go away, but that is as likely as me spending the 4th in Amity.

 

[Hockeyman55]

Oooh the gloves are coming off :catfight:

http://www.deadline.com/2013/01/disney-bob-iger-magicband-congressman-ed-markey-magicband-privacy/

Bob Iger today told a Massachusetts congressman that his privacy issue concerns about new technology being introduced at Disney theme parks are bunk. “We are offended by the ludicrous and utterly ill-informed assertion in your letter dated January 24, 2013, that we would in any way haphazardly or recklessly introduce a program that manipulates children, or wantonly puts their safety at risk,” the Disney chairman and CEO wrote in a letter (read it in full below) Monday to Ed Markey.

The program to which Iger is referring is the company’s MyMagic+MagicBands digital venture set to launch this spring at Disney World. As Iger outlined last week during a Q&A with Brian Grazer, the initiative enables theme park visitors to upload their personal information into digitally enhanced wristbands so they can reserve time on rides and in restaurants as well as upload birthday information. From Disney’s point of view, the MagicBand tracks guest interaction and purchasing behavior while in the parks.

Iger’s letter today comes in response to a letter that Markey, co-chairman of the Congressional Bi-partisan Privacy Caucus, sent to Disney on Thursday raising concerns about the new technology. “Collecting information about how guests use Disney amusement parks could improve the company’s ability to target advertisements at its guests, including children. Although kids should have the chance to meet Mickey Mouse, this memorable meeting should not be manipulated through surreptitious use of a child’s personal information,” wrote the House Democrat. Here’s Iger’s full response today:

January 28, 2013

The Honorable Edward Markey

2108 Rayburn House Office Building Washington, DC 20515

Congressman Markey:

For 90 years, Disney has been synonymous with high-quality entertainment for families and children of all ages. We use creativity, innovation and technology to create memorable moments and experiences for our hundreds of millions of customers and guests. And, as you well know, Disney’s record and commitment to children’s safety and security and the protection of their privacy is exemplary. People around the world trust Disney and its products. That trust is the cornerstone of our company, and we take it very seriously.

We are offended by the ludicrous and utterly ill-informed assertion in your letter dated January 24, 2013, that we would in any way haphazardly or recklessly introduce a program that manipulates children, or wantonly puts their safety at risk.

It is truly unfortunate and extremely disappointing that you chose to publicly attack us before taking the time to review our policies and/or contact us for information, which would have obviated the need for your letter. Had you or your staff made the slightest effort, you would have found most of the answers to your questions already existed and were publicly available online at http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp.html and https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/my-disney-experience/privacy-policy/.

In the enclosed attachment, we address the questions in your letter about our new, yet-to-be* launched program, MyMagic+. However, to ensure that you fully understand our practices as they pertain to children, and our commitment to our guests’ privacy, let me be clear and reiterate the basic facts.

MyMagic+ is a completely optional program that was designed with privacy controls from the outset. Disney does not use personal information to market to children under age 13, does not personalize or target advertisements to an individual child, and never shares children’s personal information with any third party for their marketing purposes. Additionally, parents have full control over their child’s participation in MyMagic+. We have transparent privacy practices, guests can control and limit the amount of information they provide to us — and how their information is used.

Further details are attached

Sincerely,
Robert A Iger

 

[UK-Trigg]

Here we go :ears:

 

[jtsalien]

He lost me at "For 90 years..."

 

[maxairmike]

He conveniently side-stepped Markey's last (and I think one of the most important) question about guests receiving an inferior product if they opt out, thus creating a not so subtle situation where a parent who would be hesitant and not give such information is now pretty much coerced into doing so. Still reeks to me.

 

[UK-Trigg]

He conveniently side-stepped Markey's last (and I think one of the most important) question about guests receiving an inferior product if they opt out, thus creating a not so subtle situation where a parent who would be hesitant and not give such information is now pretty much coerced into doing so. Still reeks to me.

I agree with this^^^^^^^^

Sure you can opt out but........

No data handed over = No FP+ for you.

 

[coasterj]

Not a very professional response either, seemed rushed and sort of childish to me

 

[Mike]

I think you are right coasterj.

I was caught off guard by it too. More like the angry Mickey from South Park. Not really the tone that Disney's CEO should be setting, better from a General Counsel. I am sure they intentionally calculated what tone should be used in the response to discourage further action like a public hearing. Might have been good legal/political advice, but not so much for the PR level of Disney's corporate leadership.

 

[IzzyB]

Not trying to pick on you Izzy, but I think there are some things that are pretty clear regardless of all the NextGen unknowns. Are some third tier restaurants or third tier seating times available? Sure. I know I can always eat at Kona Cafe or Nine Dragons. However for years there have been wide-spread reports of no luck in trying to get into Le Cellier, Royal Table, Beast, Chef Mickey, etc., you know the popular, low-capacity places. The same could be said about the more popular attractions and FP+. It is never hard to get a walk-up FP now for The Land, but try for Soarin', right?

I know you are not trying to pick on me, I love these kinds of civil debates. We all have our own experiences that shape our opinions. It does not make one side right or wrong, just different. You are seeing the glass half empty and I am seeing it half full. It is all perspective. I am taking a wait and see approach and this is probably because I don't mind the current fast pass system. I have learned to navigate it to best fit my needs. But I am a local, and my perspective on things are different. I never have a must ride list when I go to the park. So if a line is too long and I can't get a fast pass, well then I will hit it next time. Most people that I know that go to Disney come at least once a year, so they are the same way. So everyone I know loves the fast pass system as it is today.

I understand capacity and that not everyone that gets into the park can ride a ride. BUT not everyone that comes in the park will want to or can ride that ride. Your example of 45,000+ guests doesn't hold true. Because most all popular rides have height restrictions or are thrilling rides. There are a few (Toy Story, Safari to name two) that most all guests can ride and they are popular. So for most popular rides only a percentage can or want to ride that ride. But yes, there are rides that someone will want to ride and can't. I find some parks impossible to ride every ride in one day. Magic Kingdom is one of those parks. You would have to go from Open to Close and not take very many breaks to possibly ride all the rides. So you have to factor that in too when talking about guest count vs. ride capacity. How many attractions does the park have and is it possible to do all of them even on a non-busy day.

Actually, I make reservations a lot. We tend to do one sit down place every time we go and since we have gone this past year almost once a week, we go a lot. We have a favorites that we go a ton (Germany, Garden Grill), but then we also try new things. This last time we tried Japan - wouldn't go again, but we do want to try the Hibachi next time. We had the option of either one as a walk up, but since my son needed glasses and they hadn't come in yet, we decided to wait until he had his glasses and could see the show. I have seen Canada reservations available, but have not taken them as it was not what we wanted at the time. I do however want to go and at some point will be able to match a good time with when we want it. So it is not impossible to get in there. Reservations is not what made this system be the way it is, it is the Disney Dining plan. Which I can't blame Disney for doing that. They had places that were empty before they did this because people would eat off property. Now they eat on property and Disney makes more money. I am a practical person and know that Disney making more money is good for me. So I don't care, I have learned to figure the system out and get what I want. Again, because I am a local.

I am the type of person that doesn't get worked up until it really effects my experience. Since the system is not out yet, i am not worked up. We will see once it is implemented. Then I may be singing a new tune

 

[IzzyB]

I think you are right coasterj.

I was caught off guard by it too. More like the angry Mickey from South Park. Not really the tone that Disney's CEO should be setting, better from a General Counsel. I am sure they intentionally calculated what tone should be used in the response to discourage further action like a public hearing. Might have been good legal/political advice, but not so much for the PR level of Disney's corporate leadership.

The tone shocked me too. I do have to say in some ways they were right. I was shocked that in the letter from Congress they kept stating the NY Times article. To use an article as your only means of looking into something is pretty lame. But then again we are talking about the government and they can't seem to figure anything out these days and they love wasting time on stupid things (like this). So maybe the CEO got a little frustrated with that. I think Disney was upset this ended up in the public eye when a lot of the questions weren't needed. Or they caught him on a bad day - lol

 

[Mike]

I understand capacity and that not everyone that gets into the park can ride a ride. BUT not everyone that comes in the park will want to or can ride that ride. Your example of 45,000+ guests doesn't hold true. Because most all popular rides have height restrictions or are thrilling rides. There are a few (Toy Story, Safari to name two) that most all guests can ride and they are popular. So for most popular rides only a percentage can or want to ride that ride. But yes, there are rides that someone will want to ride and can't.

I think your post shows a very fair approach. I do think that my 45,000+ guests does hold true, but it doesn't prove what I was trying to say. What I am trying to respond to, is your statement that a lot of people don't plan, therefore, there will always be the ability to out maneuver, either in advance or day of.

What I am trying to point out that in the future as more and more guests are encouraged to plan ahead, it will make it even harder to manage this limited capacity. The 43.5% supply stays constant, but demand now increases. Soarin' is a great example to use in this discussion because you rightfully point out the height requirement. EPCOT's average daily attendance is typically 30K. Soarin's most realistic top hourly capacity is slightly higher than 1200 pph. Soarin has a very accepting height requirement of 40" which means most kids can ride with the extra strap. EPCOT typically operates for 12 hrs a day.

So, for the sake of illustration, 30,000 guests. 14,400 maximum riders in a day. Also, remember there are those who get a FP and then enter standby (or single riders in DCA). So the 14,400 is riders, not individuals. So now we are at 48% instead of 43.5%, with quite possibly the shortest height requirement around. Under the current system, if you chose to get to EPCOT to get an early FP, you are locked in. Under the new system you will have more and more people encouraged to compete for those Soarin FP+ without having to make the effort to get to the park early. It doesn't matter if Disney messes with the distribution ratios or not, demand will have increased (as it has for the top dining reservations) more than it currently is under today's system. There is no logical way to say that it won't. With an increased demand, the fixed supply will be exhausted sooner.

What adds insult to injury is instead of growing capacity around the park to make it less of a blow that 1 out of 2 riders cannot ride a top attraction in their visit, they are simply throwing this mess on more attractions. So now rides like TLS or Haunted Mansion will make you stand in line longer than you ever needed to before, all because Disney can't give out too many Soarin' FP+s. Instead of creating attractions to fill the demands that Disney has artificially created, they are adding scavenger hunts and more exit passes to otherwise manageable queues.

I don't care one way or the other. I am not crying about it. I just think those who are concerned about it affecting them ahead of time, are reaching that concern through pretty solid assumptions.

- - - Updated - - -

I was shocked that in the letter from Congress they kept stating the NY Times article. To use an article as your only means of looking into something is pretty lame.

The article was used I believe, because it had Tom Staggs WDP&R head, promoting the initative.

 

[ReelJustice]

they love wasting time on stupid things (like this)

What else would you have the Privacy Caucus doing besides looking into possible privacy concerns?

The Congressman's letter and question were not out of line, and Disney hasn't been totally forthcoming regarding NextGen details. Best to ask Disney directly and get information straight from the horse's mouth. This could have certainly been done behind closed doors, but that's not this Congressman's style (and he may be jockeying for Kerry's senate seat.) Disney is no stranger to Markey, but the response from Bob Iger was shocking, unusual, and may prove to be damaging. We'll see. I do not see this as a waste of time though. Last I checked, Disney is no longer the quaint animation studio founded 90 years ago. It is a huge media conglomerate that basically has its hands in EVERYTHING. The data acquired from the MagicBand could benefit nearly all of their holdings. So, assuming third parties won't have access to the data, Disney alone has enough parties 'in house'.

People may have some warped sense of trust in corporations, but some of us are skeptical and like to see the questions asked. If Steve Burke or Bill Davis ever talk to a Congressman like Bob Iger did, I'll be sure to criticize them as well. Bad form, and totally unnecessary, IMO. Just answer the Congressman's questions like any rational person would.

NextGen may very well be pure and innocent, but we need to ask questions to ascertain that.

 

[UK-Trigg]

I think the response shows how much pressure is bubbling up behind closed doors, I said it a few posts back and I will say it again there is a bumpy ride ahead.

 

[ReelJustice]

I think the response shows how much pressure is bubbling up behind closed doors, I said it a few posts back and I will say it again there is a bumpy ride ahead.

Yep.

And while people keep saying we can opt out, we all know that while you CAN, your vacation experience at WDW will be terrible. So essentially, you are being forced to do it and be data mined. So, there are privacy issues everywhere regarding this program.

 

[Scarletwebslingr]

I think his tone was just fine. It's true that the congressman ignorantly attacked with already publicly answered questions and why wouldn't that be infuriating? One thing I hate about Disney is that they generally sugar coat too much and tend to run around without a backbone. While I'm not fond of this product, I'm actually enjoying this side of Disney.

 

[ReelJustice]

I think his tone was just fine. It's true that the congressman ignorantly attacked with already publicly answered questions and why wouldn't that be infuriating? One thing I hate about Disney is that they generally sugar coat too much and tend to run around without a backbone. While I'm not fond of this product, I'm actually enjoying this side of Disney.

And not to pick on you, but this may have been Iger's desired response. The Reality TV mentality...Americans respond to it.


I prefer tact.