Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness

[Jerroddragon]

To me the complaint about this being kinda horror is a joke

while I know not all MCU fans are the same the biggest complaints are these movies all look and feel the same

Disney tries something new and some people don’t like the genre so they should have just gone generic again?
It would be like people who don’t like spy movies saying they aren’t a fan of winter solider and then civil war isn’t made

 

[Nico]

Spoiler

To Nick’s point. Wong’s death would have made the Illuminati scene have more of bite. His return kind of screams reshoots because Marvel didn’t want him killed off.

Spoiler

Watched it again and I actually liked it more tonight. Seeing it in the Dolby Cinema helped a lot as the previous theater I saw it in actually had a fairly subpar sound system and this was basically one of the best possible experiences outside of IMAX. This is an interesting movie to describe, but i'd probably call it a Supernatural Horror Fantasy film. Bits of everything. The horror tones are really well done in some parts of this movie, too. Great application of jump scares while also blending in the fantasy and supernatural elements.

The one thought I had that stayed the same for me 100% that I can't just skim over is...

Spoiler

the handling of Wong and another death fake out which was COMPLETELY unrealistic. And then the way he gets up the mountain is extremely sketchy and at one point he's holding on with one hand. I can only suspend disbelief for so long. I love Wong as a character, but I wouldn't have been mad if Wanda had actually killed him there.

At the very least, I wish Raimi had come up with a cooler way to bring Wong back from what seemed to be a fall that would've had him destined for death. It just seemed like it was a bit of an afterthought.

Oh, and I definitely noticed how bland the writing was for Reed and how dry Krasinski's delivery was. I won't judge that too harshly since this isn't a Fantastic Four movie and it was only a quick cameo. I expect much better from a writer/director/actor combo that are working on an actual Fantastic Four project and playing a role within that film. IF Krasinski is the 616 Reed, hopefully he gets aa lot better writing and gives a less bland performance going forward.

(Again, I don't blame the performance in this movie on Krasinski as Raimi was making a Doctor Strange film, not a Fantastic Four film. If he wanted more out of him, he would've gotten it.)

 

[Captain Tragedy]

Enjoyed it immensely. Sam Raimi is one of my top 5 directors of all time and his Evil Dead films are my favorite pieces of horror/comedy. Spider-Man 2 is also still up there as one of the great superhero movies ever. I was basically that leo decaprio pointing meme whenever he used one of his notorious camera movements. The sound and music were stellar. One too many McGuffins, but I can look past that. More spoilery details below.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Loved that big villain twist with Wanda. People complaining about that really did not grasp the implications of that post credits WandaVision scene. That chase scene in the tunnels with Wanda where you could only sometimes see the red of her eyes was legit terrifying. Some pretty great jump scares. Acting was on point. Would have loved an R rated version of this movie, but it's Marvel and $$$ so whatever. Only big negative was that America Chavez seemed to be an afterthought some of the time. Cameos were pure fan service, but very fun. Had to hold in the largest squeel with that whole Bruce Campbell punching himself sequence. Great callback to the best scene in Evil Dead 2. Also Charlize Theron in the MCU as Clea? Hell yeah. Give me that all day. Seeing it again this weekend.

 

[Nick]

Spoiler

To Nick’s point. Wong’s death would have made the Illuminati scene have more of bite. His return kind of screams reshoots because Marvel didn’t want him killed off.

Spoiler

Legend has it that upon sorting through completed footage, Sam Raimi was corrupted by the whisper of Kevin Feige telling him "Wong must live".

 

[HereWeGo]

Spoiler

Legend has it that upon sorting through completed footage, Sam Raimi was corrupted by the whisper of Kevin Feige telling him "Wong must live".

Spoiler

As someone that worked on this film, I can say that Wong always lived in every version of the script. That was not one of the things that changed in reshoots. Actually, most of the stuff that happened at Wundagore went completely unchanged from start to finish.

 

[Nick]

Spoiler

As someone that worked on this film, I can say that Wong always lived in every version of the script. That was not one of the things that changed in reshoots. Actually, most of the stuff that happened at Wundagore went completely unchanged from start to finish.

Yeah I figured, was just joking. I suspect most of the changes involved the cameos (both the ones that did and didn't make the cut), and having to change some scenes since they switched the release order of Spider-Man and Doctor Strange.

 

[Freak]

Saw it yesterday and my initial thoughts were I liked it. It was definitely the darkest and most gruesome of the MCU films and as a horror fan, I really enjoyed that. However, from an MCU fan perspective, I was a little.....underwhelmed. Allow to me to explain by going into some major spoilers below:

Spoiler: Spoilers to elaborate:

This movie has fallen into the same trap as WandaVision. Over promise but under-deliver. I kept reading rumors for the longest time that Hugh Jackman was gonna show up as Wolverine, Tom Cruise was going to play Ultimate Iron Man (Come to think of it, we saw someone like him in the trailer but he was never shown! Maybe I was confusing that with Illuminati Captain Marvel?), then the rumors that Deadpool was going to show up after the credits.

Look, I understand that none of those kind of rumors were "promised", but after teasing the multi-verse and coming off the hype of No Way Home, you can kind of see where I'm coming from. Once I found out this movie was only going to be two hours, I knew I had to humble my expectations. That's probably why I enjoyed it despite being underwhelmed, but even then I was expecting a bit....more. It felt like stuff was missing.

Like Brian mentioned earlier, the appeal of the MCU was originally several movies that were supposed to lead up to something big. Sure, they can be leading up to Secret Wars, but they need to get us hyped. They need to stop dangling the carrot of wild rumors to get us to see the next film and actually show they have some plan. Lately the hype of the MCU is starting to ware off for me as it's becoming more apparent that there isn't really a clear direction for the MCU right now. It needs to lead to something otherwise my interest is going to wane even more.

That aside, I did like seeing Wanda become the main villain for the movie and appreciated the "fallen hero" arc. It was also dope to see Dr Strange "dream walk" into a zombie. That was surreal to see in an MCU movie. It felt very Sam Rami and it looked great. But yeah, there needs to be a coherent build-up to something again.

 

[Nick]

Saw it yesterday and my initial thoughts were I liked it. It was definitely the darkest and most gruesome of the MCU films and as a horror fan, I really enjoyed that. However, from an MCU fan perspective, I was a little.....underwhelmed. Allow to me to explain by going into some major spoilers below:

Spoiler: Spoilers to elaborate:

This movie has fallen into the same trap as WandaVision. Over promise but under-deliver. I kept reading rumors for the longest time that Hugh Jackman was gonna show up as Wolverine, Tom Cruise was going to play Ultimate Iron Man (Come to think of it, we saw someone like him in the trailer but he was never shown! Maybe I was confusing that with Illuminati Captain Marvel?), then the rumors that Deadpool was going to show up after the credits.

Look, I understand that none of those kind of rumors were "promised", but after teasing the multi-verse and coming off the hype of No Way Home, you can kind of see where I'm coming from. Once I found out this movie was only going to be two hours, I knew I had to humble my expectations. That's probably why I enjoyed it despite being underwhelmed, but even then I was expecting a bit....more. It felt like stuff was missing.

Like Brian mentioned earlier, the appeal of the MCU was originally several movies that were supposed to lead up to something big. Sure, they can be leading up to Secret Wars, but they need to get us hyped. They need to stop dangling the carrot of wild rumors to get us to see the next film and actually show they have some plan. Lately the hype of the MCU is starting to ware off for me as it's becoming more apparent that there isn't really a clear direction for the MCU right now. It needs to lead to something otherwise my interest is going to wane even more.

That aside, I did like seeing Wanda become the main villain for the movie and appreciated the "fallen hero" arc. It was also dope to see Dr Strange "dream walk" into a zombie. That was surreal to see in an MCU movie. It felt very Sam Rami and it looked great. But yeah, there needs to be a coherent build-up to something again.

Spoiler

Hard disagree about the over promising. Like you said, none of those rumors were ever acknowledged or promoted as a part of the movie and what does coming off of NWH mean? It has no bearing on this movie. Not every movie can be bigger than the last and if they try to do that, eventually, this whole Universe is going to collapse in on itself.

I’m not a big fan of the multiverse being able to just be used whenever they want as it lowers the stakes considerably and speaking of NWH, those characters had actual roles. The Illuminati was a simple plot device to show how powerful Wanda had become.

It seems like a certain segment of fans had their own expectations let down that they want to blame on the movie, but it’s not Disney nor Marvel’s fault that part of the audience wanted to see “Cameo: The Movie” more than a Doctor Strange movie.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Saw it again today and still really like it

3D was worth a second trip to the movies (if you have AMC Alist or some extra cash just lying around)

Going into it knowing what its about...its a great film. Think people just wanted to see many cameo's we didn't and think we got more then enough of them in this film to make everyone happy. Definitely not as meh as Eternals, Ironman 2, Thor 1/2 and many other more ok or bad Marvel films.

 

[Skold]

Yeah, it was great! I'm a huge Sam Raimi fan, though, so I may fall into what I read a lot of reviews saying, "If you're a Raimi fan you'll love it." I think it stands on it's own just fine, but I loved the Raimi-isms such as the shaky-cam, Bruce Campbell (punching himself!), and maybe the best Oldsmobile sighting yet. And the start of the end credits was straight out of Ash vs. Evil Dead!

 

[HereWeGo]

Yeah I figured, was just joking. I suspect most of the changes involved the cameos (both the ones that did and didn't make the cut), and having to change some scenes since they switched the release order of Spider-Man and Doctor Strange.

So for the cameos, we did switch characters around a few times but there's no cameo's that were filmed and then got cut out completely. If we filmed with them, they're in the movie. For some reason people think (not saying you just in general) that we filmed with other A-list actors and then just cut them out. That would have been a pretty big waste of money if we did that haha. What did happen was lots of concept art and previs using alternate characters. Ultimately it came down to who was available to actually film with us during the days we had planned out. If the actor wasn't available we just cut the character from the scene.

 

[fryoj]

To me the complaint about this being kinda horror is a joke

while I know not all MCU fans are the same the biggest complaints are these movies all look and feel the same

Disney tries something new and some people don’t like the genre so they should have just gone generic again?
It would be like people who don’t like spy movies saying they aren’t a fan of winter solider and then civil war isn’t made

I don't think you understand the difference between personal tastes and "they shouldn't have done this". Just because you like something doesn't mean everyone has to, and just because I don't like something doesn't mean I think it shouldn't exist.

 

[Nick]

So for the cameos, we did switch characters around a few times but there's no cameo's that were filmed and then got cut out completely. If we filmed with them, they're in the movie. For some reason people think (not saying you just in general) that we filmed with other A-list actors and then just cut them out. That would have been a pretty big waste of money if we did that haha. What did happen was lots of concept art and previs using alternate characters. Ultimately it came down to who was available to actually film with us during the days we had planned out. If the actor wasn't available we just cut the character from the scene.

And I assume the original vision for the film was wildly different from how it ended up being considering the shakeup COVID caused. I believe it's been said America was originally set to debut in NWH and play the role that Ned played by opening up the portals to reveal Andrew and Tobey.

 

[HereWeGo]

And I assume the original vision for the film was wildly different from how it ended up being considering the shakeup COVID caused. I believe it's been said America was originally set to debut in NWH and play the role that Ned played by opening up the portals to reveal Andrew and Tobey.

Oh yeah.. insanely different haha. I don't want to say what the plot of that version was just in case they decide to go back to it for another film but it definitely would have had some cool visuals in it. Although the crowd that is upset with this movie as is because it doesn't have enough cameos would have been even more upset with the OG version of the story lol.

 

[Skold]

I've been thinking about this film a lot, which usually means I'll re-watch it over and over.

I cannot get over how the end credits are Ash vs. Evil Dead!

 

[Jerroddragon]

 

[AlexanderMBush]

So, I want to say that I applaud the visual work @HereWeGo did with MoM, and I really hope IMAX Cinema on D+ gives a lot more of a chance to see the details.

My thoughts on Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is albeit simple: it felt rushed. Both this and the original Doctor Strange share similar runtimes, but what keeps me to have an overall positive feel, is that Doctor Strange felt very consistent in what it wanted to do and how it wanted to tell the story of Steven Strange. The narrative beats given to Strange and his progression to show him realizing of how flawed he is, is fantastic, but Wanda's abrupt characterizations into the Scarlett Witch, and the objectifying of America Chavez ruined a lot of the merit that the film had for me. It makes me come back to Eternals, and prefer that over MoM.

Spoiler: MoM Spoilers in greater depth

Gonna tackle Chavez first, because she was the one I was far more disappointed in than anyone else in the film (yes, even you Illuminati Reed Richards), in that I did not see a semblance or a shred of a character. Chavez felt like a terrified girl who was flailing about until Zombie Strange (who looked fantastic while dead) gave her a pep-talk. The majority of this film, could've been stopped with a pep talk. I'm incredibly disappointed in this aspect in particular; as it's the most infuriating thing in the entire film.

Talking about Wanda, this is a simple solution to a problem that is clear as day: the transition of Wanda Maximoff to The Scarlett Witch felt incredibly quick, jumbled and you needed more context than you were actually given. I actually don't have as much of a problem on her, but if I was a general consumer who didn't watch Wandavision, to then find out just how quick they turned her, I'd be pretty mad. They needed more time to show the Darkhold's corruption, to show it's effects on her psyche.

As far as the Illuminati..Reed Richards of that universe is a complete idiot. Why would he specifically say Black Bolt's simultaneous strength/weakness in such a way that can be easily exploited? It's fusturating that if he's the smartest man in that universe, then why did he do something so stupid as that (Considering the beliefs they had to the other Universes Strange's, then I guess they're all a bit foolish [well, outside of Xavier]). Wish Maria didn't go down as quick as she did, and I am glad to see Anson Mount and Hayley Atwell get more time as their characters (and I'm honestly interested where they go with the latter).

The music fight is fantastic, Decayed Supreme Strange is an absolute delight, and I love Charlize being Clea (and wonder how soon Secret Wars is coming given the ending). There's a lot of good in this film--especially when it comes down to the titular character. But given the nature of this film, and how quick it all felt, I would've much rather of wanted to let them sniff at the roses and have more time to converse than to just have action and suspense.

For my score: square 7/10 next to Black Widow, and both of them are below Eternals. I honestly wish we got Derrickson's take as opposed to Raimis, to see how he'd improve his craft from DS1 to MoM. Hoping DS3 whenever that happens; brings him back as opposed to letting Raimi do one more crack.

 

[HereWeGo]

So, I want to say that I applaud the visual work @HereWeGo did with MoM, and I really hope IMAX Cinema on D+ gives a lot more of a chance to see the details.

Thanks! It was a challenging one to work on but it was fun. There's some cool stuff that got cut that they hopefully show or mention in the BTS featurette.
On to the next one now!

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Thanks! It was a challenging one to work on but it was fun. There's some cool stuff that got cut that they hopefully show or mention in the BTS featurette.
On to the next one now!

Good luck!

Spoiler: Now to talk about that "lack of direction"

So, I wanted to talk about this. In that..if we look at the lines, it really seems like there are clear paths. Atleast to me.

Mentioned this elsewhere, but it feels like we're on these:

• The Multiversal Secret War - This one's a bit simple. With the events of LokiS1, Wandavision, No Way Home, and MoM; alongside the events of What If S1, we are in the path of that of the Multiverse. In that it is infinite, in scope and size. And in this, Strange's incursion brings a chance to introduce something into the MCU, that'd essentially allow it to soft-reboot: The Incursion of another universe, and the aftermath of a Multiversal War with 616, and another universe that has that of the Mutants. I genuinely think the path of the MCU is Secret Wars, and I genuinely think it's sooner than later. If only for the simple reason, of bringing the Mutants into the MCU

• The next Avenger's Group (s) - yes, there is not just one Avengers Group. We've been seeing the introduction of characters such as Shang-Chi, Yelena Belova, Kate Bishop, Eli Bradley, Ms. Marvel, and America Chavez (and soon, with Ironheart and potentially Hulkling). The further we go in, we'll be at a position where two groups can be Avengers. Not exactly Young Avengers given the age-brackets for a majority of the new characters, but they can easily do two groups being the Mainline Avengers (where you have Shang-Chi, Yelena Belova, the next Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Mighty Thor, and Ant-Man) be alongside a sub-group, similar to West Coast Avengers with the majority of the younger actors joining in (I also forgot of the other younger actress, who is playing Stature, Kahtryn Newton from Freaky).

• The Other-worldly beings - The simple answer comes down to the Eternals, and the aftermaths of the abortion of Tiamut. The fate of humanity will be judged by the choices and actons made by them--which is already important. But there is also other groups, such as Captain Marvel, Proton, The Guardians of The Galaxy, and Gamora; that can lead to that of finding a way to show the Celestials how humanity has done well. You also have in this aspect, the Fantastic Four if you'd wish to explain them more sci-fi in that of an age where space travel was the big race.

There are lines being made as it is, and that isn't even going into the street and supernatural levels with Daredevil and Blade respectively, assuming if they make factions for those (Midnight Suns and Heroes for Hire comes to mind quick on Murdock and Blade's groups respectively).

 

[OrlandoGuy]

So for the cameos, we did switch characters around a few times but there's no cameo's that were filmed and then got cut out completely. If we filmed with them, they're in the movie. For some reason people think (not saying you just in general) that we filmed with other A-list actors and then just cut them out. That would have been a pretty big waste of money if we did that haha. What did happen was lots of concept art and previs using alternate characters. Ultimately it came down to who was available to actually film with us during the days we had planned out. If the actor wasn't available we just cut the character from the scene.

This is awesome! Love to hear the inside scoop on movie making.

I just saw this this week (lol, I know I’m behind) but one thing I thought was that maybe some of the cameos were filmed separate from the rest of the movie? Like Dr Strange wasn’t necessarily ever in the same room as some of the surprise characters…was that the case or was I just looking too much into it?