HBO's Game of Thrones

[Wolf359]

Spoiler

I think Dany will end up joining forces with her half brother John to fight the white walkers

 

[Teebin]

And me, who has little clue as to what has happened plot wise, will demure on future episodes.

 

[Wolf359]

Lol, it helps if you've read the books. You can read between the lines easier

 

[misterID]

Spoiler

I think Dany will end up joining forces with her half brother John to fight the white walkers

Spoiler

that's a bit tooeasy though. In her vision at the houses of the undying, the red room (palace) is ruined as is the iron throne, and it's snowing through the charred and broken roof. In Bran's vision he keeps seeing the shadow of a dragon destroying kings landing, and in his latest vision, wild fire is ignited under the city. The prospect of another heir in Jon will not set well with her because she's obsessed with gaining power and control over the seven kingdoms, Jon would want independence for the north and wildlings. Not cool for Dany who wants total control.

There is supposedly another dragon, either stone or ice, buried in Winter fell or in the ice wall.

And why hasn't anyone told Dany that her army of Dothraki and unsullied would not realistically survive a war in westeros where winter is coming. They've never even seen cool climate before. They would be wiped out by disease alone.

 

[Wolf359]

Spoiler

Dany wants her birthright, the throne. She doesn't want the power that comes with it, she wants the people to be free. The wildlings would be free to live wherever they want under her, north or south of the wall.
Am alliance between them would make sense for both of them
The visions could easily both be true. Her vision shows the battle for kings landing against the armies of the white walkers. Bran's is of the last battle for kings landing just before the mad King was killed.
You'll end up with a 3 way battle.
Dany leading her armies with Dragons at the van
Jon leading the armies of Westeros, armed with dragon glass weapons, with knights carrying the surviving Valerian steel blades at the van
Bran, as the 3 eyed Raven advising and possibly with the help of any surviving children of the Forrest
All against the armies of the dead

 

[misterID]

Spoiler

Dany wants her birthright, the throne. She doesn't want the power that comes with it, she wants the people to be free. The wildlings would be free to live wherever they want under her, north or south of the wall.
Am alliance between them would make sense for both of them
The visions could easily both be true. Her vision shows the battle for kings landing against the armies of the white walkers. Bran's is of the last battle for kings landing just before the mad King was killed.
You'll end up with a 3 way battle.
Dany leading her armies with Dragons at the van
Jon leading the armies of Westeros, armed with dragon glass weapons, with knights carrying the surviving Valerian steel blades at the van
Bran, as the 3 eyed Raven advising and possibly with the help of any surviving children of the Forrest
All against the armies of the dead

Anyone who wants that throne wants total power. That's why Ned didn't want the thrown. When Jamie killed the mad king it was Ned who forced him off the thrown, and it was his to take. That was a big deal in the first season, Ned could and should have been king, not Robert. But he didn't want total power, he wanted peace, he had no desire for power. Ned literally gave the throne to Robert. Even Robert lamented taking power as it is completely corrupted and miserable. Little Finger wants the throne. Euron wants the throne. Stannis wanted the throne. Joffery wanted the throne. It doesn't attract sain or nice people. Dany isn't preaching peace, she's preaching war, and control over the seven kingdoms. She's taking barbarians whose MO is to rape and pillage their way through Westeros, and dragons who will kill thousands of innocent men, women and children. I think the vision of a ruined thrown means...

Spoiler

it will be the end of the iron throne and singular ruler of the seven kingdoms, that's my opinion. I think it will be a civil war. Bran's visions of dragons destroying kings landing had nothing to do with white walkers, it was war between humans, IMO.

But is it really her birthright? Her family stole the throne and it was taken away because her father was INSANE and burned people alive because it amused him. They lost the war, so she lost her claim to the throne. It was actually Gentry's birthright, if we want to get down to it, Robert's illegitimate son from season 1-2.

Is it a coincidence she just happens to need a thousand ships and Euron Greyjoy just happened to order... A thousand ships. His strategy of marriage isn't without merit, she married for politcal gain before.

 

[anihilnation]

Anyone who wants that throne wants total power. That's why Ned didn't want the thrown. When Jamie killed the mad king it was Ned who forced him off the thrown, and it was his to take. That was a big deal in the first season, Ned could and should have been king, not Robert. But he didn't want total power, he wanted peace, he had no desire for power. Ned literally gave the throne to Robert. Even Robert lamented taking power as it is completely corrupted and miserable. Little Finger wants the throne. Euron wants the throne. Stannis wanted the throne. Joffery wanted the throne. It doesn't attract sain or nice people. Dany isn't preaching peace, she's preaching war, and control over the seven kingdoms. She's taking barbarians whose MO is to rape and pillage their way through Westeros, and dragons who will kill thousands of innocent men, women and children. I think the vision of a ruined thrown means...

Very interesting analysis.

 

[Wolf359]

I couldn't disagree more lol
Yes the whole "game of thrones, you win or you die" has meant that in recent times the throne has attracted what can only be described as megalomaniacs.
But the history of the throne hasn't always been that way. It's like ( for the reason that it's based on the war of the roses) Britain during periods of its history. We've had megalomaniacs on the throne but we've also had wise monarchs who wanted the whole country to progress.

Dany has always been only interested in her birthright, and as the surviving Targaryen, it is her birthright. But she doesn't want it for "absolute power" she's already shown the wisdom to listen to her advisors on times.

Spoiler

I think she'll use the Dothraki and the Iron Islanders to begin her conquest of the "mainland". She'll start by landing a beach head at her birth place. ( Stormborn being the clue ) at some point she'll find out about Jon Snow & seek an alliance. He will lead the north, she will lead the east (probably with the help of Dorne) and they will launch a 2 pronged attack on the Lannisters. Finishing up with kings landing being sacked by both forces along with the Dragons. Then the survivors will align to fight the real threat.

 

[misterID]

Ha! I know, we can go a lot of different directions. I think she'll be a villain. Dany's leadership hasn't been too great, which is a reason she would need Tyrion, as she's also shown bloodlust. She has no problem burning people alive and enjoys it... Sound like someone else?

I don't believe it is her birthright, her family lost the throne in war to the Starks and Robert. Her family took the throne the same way. When she tried to recruit her husband Drogo to invade Westeros, which he really didn't want to do, her reasoning, what she kept telling him, was specifically to rule the world, to rule the seven kingdoms. Her goal was for complete and total power for her and her son. Remember his speech about raping, murdering and enslaving the people of Westeros? She just gave the SAME speech sans raping and enslaving, in the last episode.

 

[Wolf359]

Ha! I know, we can go a lot of different directions. I think she'll be a villain. Dany's leadership hasn't been too great, which is a reason she would need Tyrion, as she's also shown bloodlust. She has no problem burning people alive and enjoys it... Sound like someone else?

I don't believe it is her birthright, her family lost the throne in war to the Starks and Robert. Her family took the throne the same way. When she tried to recruit her husband Drogo to invade Westeros, which he really didn't want to do, her reasoning, what she kept telling him, was specifically to rule the world, to rule the seven kingdoms. Her goal was for complete and total power for her and her son. Remember his speech about raping, murdering and enslaving the people of Westeros? She just gave the SAME speech sans raping and enslaving, in the last episode.

She was using Drogo, in the same way as she's using the Dothraki now. She knew telling him that they would rule the world was the easiest way do get what she wanted.
It is her birthright, the reason being that she is the last (known) surviving Targaryen. This is the reason that her family was murdered by Robert's rebellion. To ensure that no surviving Targaryen could claim title to the throne.

BTW Robert's bastard son could only have claimed title to the throne if he had been acknowledged publicly by Robert ( in the same way as the Boltons ) or a King had declared it (like Stennis wanted to do for Jon) Ned would have found it very difficult to get him on the throne instead of Joffrey et al.

Spoiler

to get really into it, it's also commonly believed that Mellisandre could also be a Targaryen

 

[misterID]

They overthrew the Targaryen's because they were tyrants, they kidnapped Ned's sister who was betrothed to Robert, and burned Ned's brother and father alive. The Mad King was going to burn everyone in Kings Landing alive, that's why there's wild fire stashed all below the city. The kingdom turned on them; the Lannisters were head of his military. When you lose the war, you lose the throne, you lose your birth right.

If you remember, when Ned took Robert's dying pronouncement of who should take the thrown after his death, while Ned was supposed to become temporary king, Ned altered the document to prevent Joffery from being king, as he was not the legitimate heir, and set it up where his real son would take over. He had a plan, as did the hand of the king before him, but Cersi had them both killed.

There are loyalists to the Targaryan's, such as Varys, and even though she believes it is her birth right, she has refused to acknowledge her father's crimes and refused to admit he did anything wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree, but in the law of kings, when you're defeated in war, you lose your kingdom, you have no claim to the throne.

Spoiler

there's a theory that Tyrion is a Targaryen, which makes sense considering the dragons didn't kill him, and the Mad King lusted after his mother.

 

[Wolf359]

They overthrew the Targaryen's because they were tyrants

They revolted because the King was mad, they were used to tyranny

If you remember, when Ned took Robert's dying pronouncement of who should take the thrown after his death, while Ned was supposed to become temporary king, Ned altered the document to prevent Joffery from being king, as he was not the legitimate heir

None of Cersei's children would be legitimate heirs as they were not Robert's children, this would only leave his bastard as any form of heir, hence the difficulty Ned would have experienced in making him King

There are loyalists to the Targaryan's, such as Varys, and even though she believes it is her birth right, she has refused to acknowledge her father's crimes and refused to admit he did anything wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree, but in the law of kings, when you're defeated in war, you lose your kingdom, you have no claim to the throne.

Varys wants what is best for the kingdom, not necessarily what's best for any particular family.
As for losing a war=losing a kingdom then yes I'd agree, but only because the victor usually wipes out any potential heir to the throne from the defeated family, hence the Targaryen children having their heads smashed in by the mountain.

Spoiler

also the reason that Ned Stark would have claimed Jon as his own in the first place to protect him if he was a Targaryen/Stark child

 

[misterID]

That's not true at all! Kings have allowed heirs of defeated families to live. You are never going to convince me otherwise. On his deathbed, Robert changed his mind and agreed to let Dany live. Robert wanted to wipe them out over Lyanna. That's why Ned argued with him to let both her and her brother live.

Varys initially supported Viserys for king! That lunatic. He had never even met Dany. He supported the House Targaryan.

They were not used to tyranny because the mad king started off as a good king.

Yes, none of Cersie's children should have the throne, they're all Jamie's.

 

[JungleSkip]

they kidnapped Ned's sister

They did?:look:

 

[misterID]

They did?:look:

Yep. They held her in the Tower Of Joy where she died mysteriously. All we know is that Ned found her in a bed of blood where he made a promise to her. That's what Bran has been seeing in his visions.

 

[JungleSkip]

Yep. They held her in the Tower Of Joy where she died mysteriously. All we know is that Ned found her in a bed of blood where he made a promise to her. That's what Bran has been seeing in his visions.

Yea, I know.

I also don't believe she was "kidnapped" in the slightest.

 

[misterID]

Yea, I know.

I also don't believe she was "kidnapped" in the slightest.

Ah, I see what you did now.

 

[Wolf359]

Nobody believes she was kidnapped anymore. Lol
The "kidnapping" was an excuse for the rebellion.
Rhaegar claims to have been in love with Lyanna.

As for letting Dany live, yes he did, on his deathbed, after having tried to kill her since the day of the rebellion. So no he didn't intend for any of the Targaryen heirs to live.

It's the same in RL the heirs are the first to go after a revolution

 

[misterID]

TRUTH

 

[Teebin]

Ok, I am ready for a bit of a battle. Will I see one tonight? I predict the stick woman will get a poorly aimed ear piercing soon. :dance: