Human Rights, Horror Nights and the Theme Park Community

[shiekra38]

I would propose that all actors be placed on elevated stages/distanced from here on out

Not to compare the two, but distancing/elevated stages in scarezones worked well at HOS last year..scares still occured

And like it or not scarezones have become glorified photo-ops anyway

I think with the foot switches, effects, and tech that Universal has at their disposal it could work

This would also guarantee that an actor is consistently in the same spot and not "wandering"

I would argue the event is simply too large to safely support "ground actors"

Obviously, harassment in any form should not occur, it's dark, vile, and should be dealt with a lifetime ban.

I don't consider myself to be "in the community" since my friends and family have simply just been attendees since I was a young lad,

but even still I've caught wind of these issues and it breaks my heart to hear.

 

[Allison]

I don't consider myself to be "in the community" since my friends and family have simply just been attendees since I was a young lad

I’ve been attending for (most likely) a far shorter amount of time then probably most people here, but, I still consider myself part of the fan community and I think we can all definitely be still be helpful.

 

[shiekra38]

I’ve been attending for (most likely) a far shorter amount of time then probably most people here, but, I still consider myself part of the fan community and I think we can all definitely be still be helpful.

Don't get me wrong I don't want to hear another story about a performer being harassed (HHN, HOS, etc)

I just don't consider myself apart of the collective "HHN community" that I hear about

I was saying as someone who just goes and loves the event with my friends and family I've even caught wind of these events

They're well documented and well known, my only solution is going the Covid route and distancing scares/using platforms, at least for zones

 

[Tobias]

Being one who's going on 11 years of working as a haunt actor, as well as going on 7 years with a character that's usually in very little/revealing clothing, I certainly have a couple cents.

Ultimately, a lot of it really boils down to "Don't be a Jerkwad.". Seriously, everyone in the entire haunt industry will appreciate it if you aren't. Treat the actors, actresses, staff etc. with respect, and we'll do what we can to provide an entertaining night.

It's also tricky suggesting ways to fix things, since jerkwads are gonna' find ways to be jerkwads. You can not sell booze on site, but they're gonna' pregame and sneak whatever they can inside (even WINE Bottles which I've caught one couple sneaking in.). Also, jerkwads can be even worse without any booze since they fully know what they're doing and have the motor skills to do it.

In regards to characters with skimpy/revealing clothes, I know I'm biased on this since I am one of those but...I'm definitely against haunts forcing that on an actor/actress. I do feel those kind of costumes/roles should be taken by those who want to. (Mine is from my own choice, especially since we're not in a warm location.) An even if you did take them away, jerkwads are still gonna' make a move regardless of how much clothes they're wearing.

With haunts, actors are playing characters, monsters, psychopaths', victims etc. Guests don't see us as fellow human beings, even if we're playing a human character. So they'll react quite a bit differently in situations when confronted, be it verbally or physically. It definitely leads to issues when it comes to the jerkwads, but it can also lead to many fun situations when you're interacting with guests who're all in on the experience.

Believe me, this profession is not as easy as one might think it is. Be it physically, mentally and all it takes is some bad jerkwads to make you despise humanity at the end of the night.

That said, this profession can be very fun, especially if you're with the right crew/family. A haunt family is a good one to have since they'll have each other's back through the worst of it. It also helps a plenty when the guests are being respectful, makes our job a lot easier and more fun. That and it's the right thing to do to your fellow human beings.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

How I wish that was true.

I’m hoping now going forward that anyone thinking about adding unnecessary digs about her/her artwork from her previous album will kindly choose not to, and just stick to the topic of division. In regards to HHN, she’s currently irrelevant, so to keep addressing these type of barbs is exhausting and thread clogging.

Moving a decidedly non-speculation topic from the HHN spec thread here. From my perspective, a straight male who likes Billie Eilish and was excited about the rumor of a house coming, I’m trying to understand what a certain user has done to deserve getting their name raked through the mud. “Mysoginist” is a serious term to throw around based off what amounts to be a difference in opinion on a musical album. This is especially troubling coming from the same user that all but accused me of being an elitist jerk because I didn’t think Lightning Lane was overly expensive.

However, the posts urge us to do better and I genuinely want to understand without clogging up the thread. Again, I’m a fan of Billie Eilish and the idea of her house, but am failing to see the harm in someone’s opinion and throwing out accusations against someone’s character because of a difference in opinion is a dangerous precedent being set. So help me understand, because I do want to be better.

 

[Tbad556]

The argument in the thread basically on repeat kept coming down to:

1) Targeting her image as if it's somehow relevant
2) Saying over-and-over again unprompted that she isn't horror enough while somehow giving male-led houses with zero horror attachment such as Penn & Teller a pass because they personally liked it
3) At one point dismissing @Allison's entire argument down to essentially calling her a fangirl

It's one of the constant BS issues in every fandom ever: Dismissing women's credentials because nothing is ever valid enough. You can't on one hand say that Penn & Teller are fine (and even speculate/wishlist sci-fi movies, animes, cartoons, etc. with zero horror attachment) while saying Eilish isn't because she didn't make enough horror content for your liking. It's blatantly hypocritical. There was no reason to consistently insist that her label was controlling her while insisting male artists like Rob Zombie have full control over their material when nearly every bit of information out there seems to insist the Eilish has pretty much full creative control of her direction ranging from lyricism to appearance to videos. Lines like the below are blatantly sexist:

"Someone like Eilish just does what her marketing team tells her to do, which is why her house didn’t happen at HHN 30… “Sorry Billie, you’re going to be blonde and wear make up now, can’t have you doing a horror-adjacent haunted house confusing people about the marketing of your image!”"

You can pretty easily express casual disinterest in a female-led property without tearing it down in such a manner that you're attacking every aspect of it (and the literal human being) while not making the same argument for men. The discussion could have simply been something like "The house was considered divisive because it was a pop artist and I wasn't sure how that would translate, especially given the history of musician's getting houses at HHN" rather than the above quote going on about her being fake & controlled, how she looks, etc.

The "Calling me misogynistic when there are far more serious real life issues facing women" argument didn't help either. It's classic deflection. Women face sexism at every level from the more serious manners to the more microaggression level ones. Just because there are more serious examples out there, doesn't mean the smaller ones aren't harmful.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

I appreciate the well-thought-out response. I won’t speak for anyone else here but I think that’s a fair take on a situation that maybe got an unfair shake because of the nature of discussing via text. It’s a good conversation to have, no doubt.

 

[JawsVictim]

That is an insane amount of projecting and twisting my words.

To start, I was called a gate keeper for using the clue in context that Eilish was divisive.

After that, I mocked Eilish/her marketing team WHOEVERS decision it was to scrap her house to change looks for an upcoming album. I mocked her because everyone on this forum would KILL for the chance to help design a house and she tossed it away for blonde hair and *what I perceive to be* a prettier, more polished image. I am stating this because that’s everything I know about how the situation went down. If someone has better info, please enlighten me. I also personally didn’t like this move for her follow up album and think that album should have been titled More Boring Than Ever. This part of the drama has nothing to do with her making her own decisions - I just happen to think the choices made were lame.

I even tried to relate this whole scenario to something I would have an inherent bias towards only for these two to ignore because their minds about me being a misogynist were already made up.

And BTW Rob Zombie is on his own record label and not a major label now. He can and does whatever the f- he wants and I’m in no way a fan of his. I thought Hellbilly Deluxe was lame a- idea until experiencing it and it turned out to be my favorite scarezone. We could be talking about a performer named Roberta Zombie here and the same applies. GENDER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Zombie has horror themed songs and images. Eilish has…”Funeral For A Friend?” Which is just sad and depressing and not very fun, unlike “Dragula” or “Living Dead Girl.”

I think this all boiled down to the cult of celebrity and people here associating their personality and self-worth with that of a pop culture figure. It’s the same nonsense Trump supporters, Ye fans, The Beyhive, and Swifties do. If you don’t like something their leader does or dig at them, you’re the biggest sexist, racist, misogynist, a-hole etc in the world.

I find it absolutely embarrassing a moderator on this board took this situation so far and added flames to the fire by calling me a misogynist.

Before I take a step back and ignore this place for a good long while, Allison, this is for you…enjoy!! :grin:

 

[Tbad556]

That is an insane amount of projecting and twisting my words.

To start, I was called a gate keeper for using the clue in context that Eilish was divisive.

After that, I mocked Eilish/her marketing team WHOEVERS decision it was to scrap her house to change looks for an upcoming album. I mocked her because everyone on this forum would KILL for the chance to help design a house and she tossed it away for blonde hair and *what I perceive to be* a prettier, more polished image. I am stating this because that’s everything I know about how the situation went down. If someone has better info, please enlighten me. I also personally didn’t like this move for her follow up album and think that album should have been titled More Boring Than Ever. This part of the drama has nothing to do with her making her own decisions - I just happen to think the choices made were lame.

I even tried to relate this whole scenario to something I would have an inherent bias towards only for these two to ignore because their minds about me being a misogynist were already made up.

And BTW Rob Zombie is on his own record label and not a major label now. He can and does whatever the f- he wants and I’m in no way a fan of his. I thought Hellbilly Deluxe was lame a- idea until experiencing it and it turned out to be my favorite scarezone. We could be talking about a performer named Roberta Zombie here and the same applies. GENDER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Zombie has horror themed songs and images. Eilish has…”Funeral For A Friend?” Which is just sad and depressing and not very fun, unlike “Dragula” or “Living Dead Girl.”

I think this all boiled down to the cult of celebrity and people here associating their personality and self-worth with that of a pop culture figure. It’s the same nonsense Trump supporters, Ye fans, The Beyhive, and Swifties do. If you don’t like something their leader does or dig at them, you’re the biggest sexist, racist, misogynist, a-hole etc in the world.

I find it absolutely embarrassing a moderator on this board took this situation so far and added flames to the fire by calling me a misogynist.

Before I take a step back and ignore this place for a good long while, Allison, this is for you…enjoy!! :grin:

I mean, you continue to escalate this and twist words. You're openly stating in this comment even that you're mocking intentionally. I have no intention of mixing things up or making things worse and truly think this could be a simple discussion (and think this thread is a much easier place to have it without the conversation being mixed up with speculation talk).

I was the one who brought up gatekeeping in the thread and it was done without directing it at you as an attack, but rather as a whole about how the term isn't unfair being used sometimes with how the community acts occasionally. You can see that post here. It had nothing to do with Billie being divisive and I thought it was a basic back-and-forth with no hard feelings about properties like FNAF being brought up. It only escalated once you made the post I previously quoted which can be found here.

Said moderator was actually the one who tried to douse the flames by begging not to go down that road here. You chose to continue on which is when they finally stepped in and joined the fray. Others were already saying your statements were out of hand prior to that.

Fandom can absolutely be toxic, but it shouldn't be used blindly as a shield from criticism either. I'm at best a casual Billie fan. I enjoyed her first EP and album and have mixed feelings towards her new one. I've never seen her live and don't see that changing as it's a bit out of my price range for the amount I enjoy the body of work. I still think your comments took a turn for the sexist quite a few times and highlighted quite a few of those moments. Many, many people liked the posts claiming that you took that route as well. What are the odds that every single one of those individuals only feels that way due to the "cult of celebrity"?

Comments like "I mocked her because everyone on this forum would KILL for the chance to help design a house and she tossed it away for blonde hair and *what I perceive to be* a prettier, more polished image." continue to run down that path and be completely oblivious to how the music industry works quite honestly. She was already holding off her new era just for the opportunity to do HHN, a thing she has stated she loves. The event got canceled and she chose to continue her career rather than put off all of the music, art, etc she had created for a full year (possibly more since we had no clue how COVID would go) just to take place in a Halloween event. She was no longer going to be in that lane creatively in her new era and chose to step away. There's nothing wrong with that. It has nothing to do with her interest in horror and continues to have nothing to do with her personal appearance. The insinuation that going blonde and making yourself up a certain way removes your validity in a genre/scene/fandom is silly. I wear feminine things at times and I wear black, goth apparel sometimes. It doesn't mean my participation in the scene is any less valid because I look a different way that day. You could have just as easily said "she chose to move away from horror" without the other jabs.

I really have no desire to make this a discussion of jabs, but stopped enjoying the speculation talk when it turned into constant little pokes in that direction when it really wasn't bringing anything to the discussion. There's no need for you to leave by any means. It just may be worth considering the fact that several people have mentioned now that those comments make them uncomfortable.

 

[Brian G.]

That is an insane amount of projecting and twisting my words.

To start, I was called a gate keeper for using the clue in context that Eilish was divisive.

After that, I mocked Eilish/her marketing team WHOEVERS decision it was to scrap her house to change looks for an upcoming album. I mocked her because everyone on this forum would KILL for the chance to help design a house and she tossed it away for blonde hair and *what I perceive to be* a prettier, more polished image. I am stating this because that’s everything I know about how the situation went down. If someone has better info, please enlighten me. I also personally didn’t like this move for her follow up album and think that album should have been titled More Boring Than Ever. This part of the drama has nothing to do with her making her own decisions - I just happen to think the choices made were lame.

I even tried to relate this whole scenario to something I would have an inherent bias towards only for these two to ignore because their minds about me being a misogynist were already made up.

And BTW Rob Zombie is on his own record label and not a major label now. He can and does whatever the f- he wants and I’m in no way a fan of his. I thought Hellbilly Deluxe was lame a- idea until experiencing it and it turned out to be my favorite scarezone. We could be talking about a performer named Roberta Zombie here and the same applies. GENDER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Zombie has horror themed songs and images. Eilish has…”Funeral For A Friend?” Which is just sad and depressing and not very fun, unlike “Dragula” or “Living Dead Girl.”

I think this all boiled down to the cult of celebrity and people here associating their personality and self-worth with that of a pop culture figure. It’s the same nonsense Trump supporters, Ye fans, The Beyhive, and Swifties do. If you don’t like something their leader does or dig at them, you’re the biggest sexist, racist, misogynist, a-hole etc in the world.

I find it absolutely embarrassing a moderator on this board took this situation so far and added flames to the fire by calling me a misogynist.

Before I take a step back and ignore this place for a good long while, Allison, this is for you…enjoy!! :grin:

Finally stepping in here.

I think it would do yourself some good to step away and reasses because it seems you're on the defense instead of listening which isn't helping the conversation.

I get it. No one likes to be accused of being misogynistic. However, it seems there are certain points of the argument that you aren't grasping and continue to push back on; which is making other posters feel like you are - and speaking for myself, looking from the outside in, I can see why.

As far as the Eilish house - you're assuming a lot and oversimplifying the issue. One - Assuming the house was scrapped so they can change looks and two - assuming she doesn't have any say, which after a quick Google shows "her record label did not have any input on the album". The house was shelved because of several factors, but yes - one was due to her moving onto the promotional part of the 2nd album which featured different concepts that conflicted with the 1st album. I am no Eilish fan but its clear her albums are based on her mood during the songwriting phase and is very concept-based. I guess where the confusion is coming from is that it seems you think they cancelled the house so she can write a "Happy" album and not the other way around.

The other part is putting Eilish's qualifications for Horror under an extreme microsope while seriously speculating on Psych, Knives Out, Spongebob... The initial cause of this argument was when you posted Eilish was "the furthest they’ve almost strayed from Halloween and horror" which has already been pointed out with P&T as not true and also not deciphering the clue or aiding in the speculation. Allison's follow up post asking to move on was met with the dismissive and confrontational "The only one hung up on starting sh- over this aspect of the speculation is you. Likely cause you’re an Eilish fan."

And whether Allison is right, wrong, indifferent, etc - she's letting you know how she feels. Text is already hard to decipher when you're having serious conversations like this - but when you end your response with a clear, dismissive/sarcastic tone - it doesn't do any good for the discourse and makes you look the ass.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I'll just saw I didn't care for Alice Coopers maze either....I'd just rather see movies or and especially Video games over some music artist making mazes. Give me Resident Evil, evil Within, Dead Space, 5 nights at Freddies over a Taylor Swift Maze

I think it would make more sense to have "mini" mazes or scare zones near a DJ booth that is playing popular music

 

[tielo]

I was not aware that the actors were harrased at HHN. I am sure there is a zero tolerance regarding those acts and guests should be removed from the parks (life long ban) and as it is a criminal offence, measures should be taken to make these people accountable and press charges.

Now is the question; is taking away the problem the solution?
Yes if the problem is the person that harasses someone. They should be schooled and learn that their behavior against that person is a crime.
No if the problem is seen as the actor in a sexy outfit and that person is taken away. It shows to the person who harasses someone that they have the right to do that because someone looks a certain way and that is wrong. Do we want a society where people are so misbehaving that you have to walk around with a bag over your head because someone might get the urge to do something wrong? Not me. It doesn't work and it never has.
Examples: don't talk about sex with your kids doesn't result in less teenage pregnancies', it leads to more. The same goes for alcohol, you can drive a car when you get 16 and are not allowed to drink until you are 21, what can go wrong, a lot. You are not taking the source of a problem away, you fail in educating and in enforcing decent human behavior.
We all like to look at beautiful things, flowers, pie, men, women, whatever rocks your boat. Sexuality and being titillated is a part of our life, we can enjoy that and there is nothing wrong with that. How we as human beings interact with each other is very well defined within laws and within our culture. If someone doesn't follow that they should be held accountable for their act.

 

[shiekra38]

I'll just saw I didn't care for Alice Coopers maze either....I'd just rather see movies or and especially Video games over some music artist making mazes. Give me Resident Evil, evil Within, Dead Space, 5 nights at Freddie's over a Taylor Swift Maze

I think it would make more sense to have "mini" mazes or scare zones near a DJ booth that is playing popular music

There's certain styles of houses that have huge misses under their belt. Those in the music/abstract genre are riddled with houses that are not great. As a matter of fact, even though there's only a few, the music attractions have been some of the worst.

Add in that a lot of the older demo that posts on the HHN FB account probably don't listen to her and may have felt miffed about her inclusion much like they did Stranger Things. Unfortunately, I think Billie's house would have probably been a very fun experimental house at the end of the day and I was curious to see how they pulled it off.

I think the tenacity at which some folks were obsessive over making sure everyone knew they didn't like her was a bit ridiculous.

Part of it is some people not realizing they've gotten older and HHN is no longer aimed at them. Some were just bothered as they always are about anything being featured that isn't from 1980 (actually Ghostbusters got a ton of flack as well)

The Eilish house is allowed to be ranked, discussed, and people are able to air their feelings about the house online..if that's bothersome to you..then sorry.

However, there is a point where it becomes obsessive and weird. That's the part where it gets a bit silly.

I mean, when me being excited and defending Ghostbusters having a house at friggin Universal Studios steps away from where their old attraction used to be and it results in me getting people DM-ing me and cussing me out, you know you have an issue (btw I screenshotted them and my friends still quote them at each other to this day...but that's beside the point)

HHN is a lot like Disney fandom where things can get real spiteful real quick.

 

[Nico]

I just want to say, while there are struggles, I really really appreciate how this forum - both the mods and the users - handles serious, sensitive conversations. They are often responded to in thoughtful and compassionate ways. It feels like that’s becoming a rarity on the internet and I appreciate this site specifically for having these conversations.

 

[Jerroddragon]

There's certain styles of houses that have huge misses under their belt. Those in the music/abstract genre are riddled with houses that are not great. As a matter of fact, even though there's only a few, the music attractions have been some of the worst.

Add in that a lot of the older demo that posts on the HHN FB account probably don't listen to her and may have felt miffed about her inclusion much like they did Stranger Things. Unfortunately, I think Billie's house would have probably been a very fun experimental house at the end of the day and I was curious to see how they pulled it off.

I think the tenacity at which some folks were obsessive over making sure everyone knew they didn't like her was a bit ridiculous.

Part of it is some people not realizing they've gotten older and HHN is no longer aimed at them. Some were just bothered as they always are about anything being featured that isn't from 1980 (actually Ghostbusters got a ton of flack as well)

The Eilish house is allowed to be ranked, discussed, and people are able to air their feelings about the house online..if that's bothersome to you..then sorry.

However, there is a point where it becomes obsessive and weird. That's the part where it gets a bit silly.

I mean, when me being excited and defending Ghostbusters having a house at friggin Universal Studios steps away from where their old attraction used to be and it results in me getting people DM-ing me and cussing me out, you know you have an issue (btw I screenshotted them and my friends still quote them at each other to this day...but that's beside the point)

HHN is a lot like Disney fandom where things can get real spiteful real quick.

Like I don’t car that’s much

but just perfect mazes be based off movies, tv or games that have a setting for it
I think most fans of HHN feel the same because musical artists feel like old people in charge trying to be hip over make the best event we can get

 

[shiekra38]

Like I don’t car that’s much

but just perfect mazes be based off movies, tv or games that have a setting for it
I think most fans of HHN feel the same because musical artists feel like old people in charge trying to be hip over make the best event we can get

Lol yes, there is an aspect of that for sure

I am only interested in seeing Universal adapt movies and TV shows as well

 

[Allison]

I apologize for seeing this so late as I have family in town so I’ve been busy with them all day but I think @Tbad556 and @Brian G. put it perfectly.

My basic point has been and always will be to say that an IP is divisive simply due to someone’s body of work is one thing, it’s another to continue to degrade and talk down on the person behind the work repeatedly after having literally been begged to stop. I personally am sick of having to ask for these type of comments to be curbed, which is why I come from a place of emotion which sometimes makes even my own response to the topic invalidated by some. There are times when it’s not easy to be a woman in a male dominated forum and the kind of comments that I was speaking out against are the comments that remind me of that, the ones that are unnecessary to the discussion. We don’t need to read that she’s the furthest thing from horror and Halloween because we know that is wrong due to other IP’s HHN has featured and even ones being speculated, we don’t need to read that she doesn’t come up with her own ideas or art because a simple Google search will tell you that’s also wrong. We can all agree that she’s a divisive IP because that’s an absolute fact, the rest though? Again, I believe it’s unnecessary, incorrect, and, while I don’t want to speak for my fellow moderators and admin I will say what I do know of them and some of the other members of this forum—it’s found to be unwanted.

I’m hoping this helps clarify my stance on the topic further.

 

[JawsVictim]

I never considered gender or the perception of gender with my comments. They were never intended to disparage women. It was a swipe at an incorporated individual with a massive marketing team and record execs who I happen to find cringy af. I would have made the same digs if we were discussing Bieber, Sheeran, or Ye who I find equally insufferable.

However, I do recognize I should not have made these comments in the speculation thread and deserved to be called out for that. I also let my temper get the best of me and do apologize for further antagonizing and acting sh-tty towards others.

I’ve realized I don’t belong on public forums right now due to my negative attitude and headspace. So I won’t be bothering y’all anymore. Again, sorry to the people who run this site and for disrupting discussions.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I never considered gender or the perception of gender with my comments. They were never intended to disparage women. It was a swipe at an incorporated individual with a massive marketing team and record execs who I happen to find cringy af. I would have made the same digs if we were discussing Bieber, Sheeran, or Ye who I find equally insufferable.

However, I do recognize I should not have made these comments in the speculation thread and deserved to be called out for that. I also let my temper get the best of me and do apologize for further antagonizing and acting sh-tty towards others.

I’ve realized I don’t belong on public forums right now due to my negative attitude and headspace. So I won’t be bothering y’all anymore. Again, sorry to the people who run this site and for disrupting discussions.

Take a break and come back, we all make mistakes it's what you do after that counts. You're always welcome back.

 

[shiekra38]

I never considered gender or the perception of gender with my comments. They were never intended to disparage women. It was a swipe at an incorporated individual with a massive marketing team and record execs who I happen to find cringy af. I would have made the same digs if we were discussing Bieber, Sheeran, or Ye who I find equally insufferable.

However, I do recognize I should not have made these comments in the speculation thread and deserved to be called out for that. I also let my temper get the best of me and do apologize for further antagonizing and acting sh-tty towards others.

I’ve realized I don’t belong on public forums right now due to my negative attitude and headspace. So I won’t be bothering y’all anymore. Again, sorry to the people who run this site and for disrupting discussions.

Everyone is free to not like her, her music and her visuals, and you have contributed some interesting discussion here so I hope you reconsider