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The Future of Lost Continent

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheDecemberists
  • Start date Start date Nov 2, 2009
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DarkMetroid567

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  • Yesterday at 10:35 PM
  • #5,201
mccgavin said:
Pokémon is a significantly more popular franchise than Mario, largely because it has been successful multi-media franchise, and is far more accessible. Mario has only recently been expanding into other forms of media like film and theme parks, but Pokémon has had countless films, and an ongoing anime series for decades now. Games are just one facet of how people can interact with the franchise, as I know some people who are primarily focused on the anime or the Trading Card Game or as a lifestyle brand without engaging with all or any of the other mediums. Even to this day, I can't think of any IP that has caused as big of a phenomenon as the Pokémon Go craze. Pokémon is an absolute juggernaut compared to everything else.
Click to expand...
I mean I don’t disagree that it’s a very powerful franchise, but I just don’t think it will translate to a bigger-than-Potter bombastic impact at IoA.

(It might at USJ, though!)
 
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Jake S

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  • Yesterday at 10:40 PM
  • #5,202
Hello Kitty is number two on that list. How's the Hello Kitty activation going in Orlando? I'm not saying revenue generated is unimportant, but I don't think it's the end-all be-all metric some are making it out to be.
 
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moth

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  • Yesterday at 10:43 PM
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Jake S said:
Hello Kitty is number two on that list. How's the Hello Kitty activation going in Orlando? I'm not saying revenue generated is unimportant, but I don't think it's the end-all be-all metric some are making it out to be.
Click to expand...
Pokémon is four quadrant appeal incarnate. Almost everyone knows and loves Pokémon and aren't ashamed of it. Hello Kitty is aimed towards the female crowd and that's ultimately why it didn't fly so well in Orlando compared to how it is in Cali, demographics play a role in HK's success between coasts too.

Everyone, and I mean almost everyone will look at Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, Eevee, Gengar, Snorlax, Jigglypuff, Magikarp and go:

"Oh, I know them, they're cool, I like them."

It doesn't matter their age (though it might be hard to sell 60+ crowd, but those boomers should be getting another BTTF thing probably), race, whatever. People love this IP to death and they're unashamed of it.
 
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DarkMetroid567

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  • Yesterday at 10:56 PM
  • #5,204
moth said:
Pokémon is four quadrant appeal incarnate. Almost everyone knows and loves Pokémon and aren't ashamed of it. Hello Kitty is aimed towards the female crowd and that's ultimately why it didn't fly so well in Orlando compared to how it is in Cali, demographics play a role in HK's success between coasts too.

Everyone, and I mean almost everyone will look at Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, Eevee, Gengar, Snorlax, Jigglypuff, Magikarp and go:

"Oh, I know them, they're cool, I like them."

It doesn't matter their age (though it might be hard to sell 60+ crowd, but those boomers should be getting another BTTF thing probably), race, whatever. People love this IP to death and they're unashamed of it.
Click to expand...
I just feel that this love might be overstated beyond “oh, they’re cute!” I have a really hard time seeing the Gen X parents from Wisconsin or Long Island saying “man, I have GOT to see Pikachu!”

That was something that Potter was really uniquely positioned for. Even if you weren’t into the IP, you were at least intrigued at how that world manifested into the Wizarding World we have today. I don’t think Kanto is going to have that same draw.
 
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DodgsonHere

DodgsonHere

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  • Yesterday at 11:20 PM
  • #5,205
DarkMetroid567 said:
I just feel that this love might be overstated beyond “oh, they’re cute!” I have a really hard time seeing the Gen X parents from Wisconsin or Long Island saying “man, I have GOT to see Pikachu!”

That was something that Potter was really uniquely positioned for. Even if you weren’t into the IP, you were at least intrigued at how that world manifested into the Wizarding World we have today. I don’t think Kanto is going to have that same draw.
Click to expand...
You know what this is actually an extremely valid point. Potter is such an easy translation to theme parks that even someone with casual knowledge of it knew how good it could be.

Pokemon is definitely a harder translation, I'm really intrigued but also excited to see how they do it. Berk is a really good starting point for how to make a land feel alive with creatures, hope Pokemon pushes it even further because that is how this IP will truly win in the parks.
 
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Skold

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  • Yesterday at 11:35 PM
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I just gotta say that I played TCG a few years ago and Pikachu is the worst card. He sucks. How did this thing become the face of the franchise? He sucks.
 
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Mad Dog

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  • Today at 12:25 AM
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Jake S said:
Hello Kitty is number two on that list. How's the Hello Kitty activation going in Orlando? I'm not saying revenue generated is unimportant, but I don't think it's the end-all be-all metric some are making it out to be.
Click to expand...
The Hello Kitty merch got moved to the store in Toon that used to have the SLOP merch that didn't sell well either.
That's kind of the black hole for merch at USO. :D
 
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belloq87

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  • Today at 12:31 AM
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I have no standing to question the overall financial success of the Pokemon brand, but I will offer this: the DETECTIVE PIKACHU movie barely made a profit in theaters. It was not a significant hit. So it's not a guarantee that Pokemon's ability to bring in the merch/gaming/card money will inherently translate, successfully, to some other mass-appeal format.

That's not me arguing that Pokemon shouldn't come to the parks, either.
 
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moth

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belloq87 said:
I have no standing to question the overall financial success of the Pokemon brand, but I will offer this: the DETECTIVE PIKACHU movie barely made a profit in theaters. It was not a significant hit. So it's not a guarantee that Pokemon's ability to bring in the merch/gaming/card money will inherently translate, successfully, to some other mass-appeal format.

That's not me arguing that Pokemon shouldn't come to the parks, either.
Click to expand...
Detective Pikachu was based off of a spin off that didn't do so hot. Universal is (hopefully!) aiming something close to what Pokémon is known for rather than "talking Pikachu".

And I think the point about translating and comparing it to Potter: also valid! I still don't have a clear photo in my head of what Pokémon will end up as. But I think the curiosity of it will get people wanting to see it once it's done. I don't think there's any case study better than showing that people want to engage with realized Pokémon than Pokémon GO and the huge craze that had.

I just think that Pokémon is just the most important IP UC has gotten their hands of because of the aspect of: how do you translate this into a theme park setting well?
 
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Parkscope Joe

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  • Today at 9:14 AM
  • #5,210
I'd like to know how much of the Pokémon dollar value comes from video games (now at $60 a pop) and the TCG (have you SEEN how much a pack costs now!??)

belloq87 said:
I have no standing to question the overall financial success of the Pokemon brand, but I will offer this: the DETECTIVE PIKACHU movie barely made a profit in theaters. It was not a significant hit. So it's not a guarantee that Pokemon's ability to bring in the merch/gaming/card money will inherently translate, successfully, to some other mass-appeal format.

That's not me arguing that Pokemon shouldn't come to the parks, either.
Click to expand...

Counterpoint: There's been a successful Pokémon TV series running since 1997. I think that proves it can translate to a mass appeal format.
 
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rhino4evr

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  • Today at 9:32 AM
  • #5,211
Pokemon doesn’t need “mass appeal” to be successful, its fans will spend $$$$ on exclusive merch. The existing fanbase is enough to warrant the investment.
 
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AustinT

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  • Today at 10:36 AM
  • #5,212
moth said:
Pokémon is bigger than Universal itself as a brand. When people see that "the other theme park" has God damn Pikachu there, taunting them like a siren to give them their money, they will flock like birds.

Pokémon needs every inch of LC to have enough space for the people it will attract
Click to expand...
Yes, I don't think some of the older people who were never into Pokemon understand just how much of a chokehold this IP has on multiple generations. Now its got parents having children and introducing their kids to the brand too. Did you see the Pokemon LEGO drop recently? Madness. All wickedly expensive sets aimed at the 30+ crowd. All sold out within 24 hours.

I saw more comments on social media from non-theme park people than ever before regarding a park announcement that didn't have any concrete info. Tons of people had no idea Universal and Pokemon had even partnered, much less were planning US additions. This will be a theme park and merch juggernaut. All the more reason I think this needed to go into Studios so badly to inject that park with some life :nervous: That back half of IOA will be forever packed now.
 
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Mad Dog

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  • Today at 11:14 AM
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@AustinT "That back half of IOA will be forever packed now"....Yes. You are soooo right on that. .....I'm no fan of Pokemon
personally, but that's definitely the right decision made by Universal. HP & Pokemon duo will be a juggernaut.
 
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Mike S

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  • Today at 11:39 AM
  • #5,214
Mad Dog said:
@AustinT "That back half of IOA will be forever packed now"....Yes. You are soooo right on that. .....I'm no fan of Pokemon
personally, but that's definitely the right decision made by Universal. HP & Pokemon duo will be a juggernaut.
Click to expand...
This is why I still don’t understand why this isn’t going to USF. 2 big areas on the chopping block and it’s not going to either of them. It’s like that meme of the mom playing with the kid in the pool while her other kid is about to drown. USF needs something huge like this.
 
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Brian G.

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  • Today at 11:53 AM
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I don't think there’s any question that Pokémon is a huge get for Universal and will almost certainly be very successful. That said, being successful and being bigger than Harry Potter aren’t the same thing, and I don’t think we know enough yet to say that.

I've never seen a craze happen like Pokémon Go, but on the flip side, the movie history in the US isn’t great. There’s also the fact that Pokémon’s big theme park debut is happening in Japan first, where the brand is on another level culturally.

So yeah, Pokémon will be big. I just don’t think it’s automatic that it ends up bigger than Potter, especially in the American market.
 
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Mike S

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  • Today at 11:58 AM
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Brian G. said:
I don't think there’s any question that Pokémon is a huge get for Universal and will almost certainly be very successful. That said, being successful and being bigger than Harry Potter aren’t the same thing, and I don’t think we know enough yet to say that.

I've never seen a craze happen like Pokémon Go, but on the flip side, the movie history in the US isn’t great. There’s also the fact that Pokémon’s big theme park debut is happening in Japan first, where the brand is on another level culturally.

So yeah, Pokémon will be big. I just don’t think it’s automatic that it ends up bigger than Potter, especially in the American market.
Click to expand...
The movies may not be a hot ticket but literally everything else Pokémon is. The merch and cards sell like crazy and the games continue to sell extremely well despite not moving forward with the the leaps the rest of the industry has taken at all including games from Nintendo.
 
Brian G.

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  • Today at 12:22 PM
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Mike S said:
The movies may not be a hot ticket but literally everything else Pokémon is. The merch and cards sell like crazy and the games continue to sell extremely well despite not moving forward with the the leaps the rest of the industry has taken at all including games from Nintendo.
Click to expand...

Again, I don’t think anyone’s arguing Pokémon isn’t popular, but there’s a difference between being popular and being an “event.”

Recent games like Scarlet and Violet or Sword & Shield sold in the 20-25 million range, which is great! But they still sit below the monsters like Grand Theft Auto V or Minecraft, which is kinda the point I'm getting at.

And to tie it all together back to Potter, Hogwarts Legacy nearly doubled the sales of Scarlet & Violet.

It’ll be successful no matter what. I just don't think it means that massive success automatically translates to being the biggest thing to debut in the Universal portfolio.
 
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Mad Dog

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  • Today at 12:45 PM
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I don't think Pokemon will have the theme park effect that Potter has had. Potter is like a once in a lifetime event, theme
park wise. But Pokemon will undoubtedly pack them in. So that backside of IOA will be crowded continuously.

@MikeS; First rumors were Pokemon in USF, so the switch to IOA is interesting. Perhaps it's partly a timing move if Universal
needs (by contract or a business decision) to get it up quickly. LC is empty already so it's in a different spot than Springfield
which has at least two years of contract left, and maybe a couple extra years if it gets extended. With the F&F coaster and a soon
to be redone Supercharged building, the timing for a Pokemon build just might not have fit. USF still gets along fine as the Epcot
like Event park, so its situation isn't really as dire as posters here paint it.
 
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Frogki

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  • Today at 1:05 PM
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I think a big part of Potter's cultural impact as a theme park land has less to do with the branding and more to do with the immersion offered up by Universal.

That's not to say that the brand itself wasn't a hugely important factor to it's success, but I think it's easy to forget that before Potter, the idea of a massive line for theme park gift shops was a pure dream for any theme park executive. The brand lended itself very well to this, because between the world building of the books and the iconography of the films, there was just a super strong concept for a place that enveloped you, and I don't believe theme park lands had really achieved anything that encompassing before.

You can to this day, go to the parks, buy the entire costume of a Hogwarts student, and then proceed to spend the day in Hogsmeade as though you were living that reality. It was and continues to be one of the biggest wish fulfilment creations for any franchise anywhere. There's no Coke in the Wizarding World, no random theme park merch - everything therein is part of the world, down to what you touch, smell, hear and purchase.
It's also part of the novelty and the intrigue that the land generated. People who had little to no knowledge of Potter were aware of the fact that this was a place you could get lost in, and that made a lot of people at the time very interested in what it was all about at Universal.

Pokemon has many opportunities to do similar things with individual experiences, but it lacks an iconic, cohesive environmental identity that immediately reads for every fan of the franchise as THE place you want to go experience within that world. That factor combined with the fact that people have become accustomed to the hyper immersion concept makes it a lot less likely that random people want to go see it because they're curious about exactly how encompassing it is, because this is no longer a novelty to anyone familiar with the theme park landscape.

That doesn't mean it won't make bank, and it doesn't mean that it couldn't potentially trigger another unexpectedly large success upon opening. But Potter still feels very much like lightning in a bottle as a cultural moment that redefined what theme parks can be for the general public, and I'm not sure any franchise could recreate it at this point in time. I think that would require some kind of innovation that no one has dreamed up yet.
 
Last edited: Today at 2:47 PM
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Mad Dog

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Frogki said:
I think a big part of Potter's cultural impact as a park has less to do with the branding and more to do with the immersion offered up by Universal.

That's not to say that the brand itself wasn't a hugely important factor to it's success, but I think it's easy to forget that before Potter, the idea of a massive line for theme park gift shops was a pure dream for any theme park executive. The brand lended itself very well to this, because between the world building of the books and the iconography of the films, there was just a super strong concept for a place that enveloped you, and I don't believe theme park lands had really achieved anything that encompassing before.

You can to this day, go to the parks, buy the entire costume of a Hogwarts student, and then proceed to spend the day in Hogsmeade as though you were living that reality. It was and continues to be one of the biggest wish fulfilment creations for any franchise anywhere. There's no Coke in the Wizarding World, no random theme park merch - everything therein is part of the world, down to what you touch, smell, hear and purchase.
It's also part of the novelty and the intrigue that the land generated. People who had little to no knowledge of Potter were aware of the fact that this was a place you could get lost in, and that made a lot of people at the time very interested in what it was all about at Universal.

Pokemon has many opportunities to do similar things with individual experiences, but it lacks an iconic, cohesive environmental identity that immediately reads for every fan of the franchise as THE place you want to go experience within that world. That factor combined with the fact that people have become accustomed to the hyper immersion concept makes it a lot less likely that random people want to go see it because they're curious about exactly how encompassing it is, because this is no longer a novelty to anyone familiar with the theme park landscape.

That doesn't mean it won't make bank, and it doesn't mean that it couldn't potentially trigger another unexpectedly large success upon opening. But Potter still feels very much like lightning in a bottle as a cultural moment that redefined what theme parks can be for the general public, and I'm not sure any franchise could recreate it at this point in time. I think that would require some kind of innovation that no one has dreamed up yet.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
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