Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[Nick]

Personally, I think we'll see a third park at DLR before UOR gets a third park. The demand is much higher there for another park.

 

[mahnamahna]

That sounds like a well-rounded place lol. It wouldnt be similar to the Studios at all in that it will ditch the backlot theme in order to be "DisneySea-quality". IOA, maybe, but there are ways to make it different enough without being redundant, like maybe having one overarching theme that ties into whatever rides they plan to put there.

Yeah, it'd be fairly well-rounded Still not sure about Western because people would just call it a Frontierland knockoff. And anime is definitely too niche for a whole section. Maybe a stylized Tokyo area with one anime-based attraction? Pokemon, Godzilla, Space Fantasy, Hello Kitty, maybe an original based attraction themed to the mystic aspects of Japan... could be a fairly well-rounded area.

Honestly I'd probably ditch Western and Anime for Lost Continent and Mushroom Kingdom (appeals to a wide range of people, even if they're not hardcore gamers) - both would have wider appeal and have more possiblities for attractions.

 

[quinnmac000]

The difference is Disney princesses are a HUGE niche...maybe only for young girls, but its appealing to EVERY young girl. Anime is attractive just to, lets say 20-somethings, but only a few of them, not the entire population of that group of people.

Its not as niche as you think, the fact my coworkers ranging from 22 to 58 (I work in the US Air force) just spent two hours talking about Dragonball Z, Pokémon, how their kids love full metal alchemist and Sailor Moon, its has popularity just not an overt lets talk about it every day for hour popularity. The thing that would make this work as a good land isn't the popularity of Anime, its the fact most anime is drawn similarly so its flows well making it easy to be Disney Sea level immersive.

People didnt' start raving about Universal for what IP they had, they started raving because they made two highly immersive themed areas that flow really well.

 

[mahnamahna]

I'm kind of surprised that this is properly on the table alongside the waterpark as well... Good news though. I wonder what the total investment for building this scale and quality of park from scratch is nowadays? Considering IOA supposedly cost around $800m in the 1990s and the DCA rebuild cost $1.5bn, it would surely run to an astronomical figure. Wikipedia reckons DisneySEA cost $4bn but I would imagine that's a pretty big overstatement.

It'd probably be $4 billion if they're going with DisneySea-level theming, but Universal Orlando tends to keep their budgets lower without sacrificing the theming so it wouldn't have to be adjusted for inflation. That's still a huge investment, so I'd say they'll wait until they develop both of their current gates into full-day parks before making a huge investment. They're also probably saving it to cap off their insane levels of expansion.

 

[ChrisFL]

The only problem is that American tourists aren't the same as Japanese tourists... Americans want to see their favorite characters, so sadly, original areas/attractions aren't going to be that plentiful.

Although DisneySea is more 50/50.

Little Mermaid
Indiana Jones
Toy Story
Finding Nemo
Aladdin
Sinbad
Journey to the Center of the Earth
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea

Despite the fact that those are all fairly unique to DisneySea aside from Toy Story Midway Mania and Turtle Talk, they're still based on IPs. 15 attractions based on IPs... I'm guessing around 15 that aren't. It may have been 75 original/25 IP when it first opened, but they've added a few IPs over the years.

I agree with this, additionally there's other factors at work.

DisneySea works well because much of the market is "local" relatively speaking...96% of guests are Japanese and not international tourists....people will be visiting the area whether they have IP's familiar or not.

Universal has to have familiar IP's in order to drive publicity for a new park.

 

[TylerDurden]

Its not as niche as you think, the fact my coworkers ranging from 22 to 58 (I work in the US Air force) just spent two hours talking about Dragonball Z, Pokémon, how their kids love full metal alchemist and Sailor Moon, its has popularity just not an overt lets talk about it every day for hour popularity. The thing that would make this work as a good land isn't the popularity of Anime, its the fact most anime is drawn similarly so its flows well making it easy to be Disney Sea level immersive.

People didnt' start raving about Universal for what IP they had, they started raving because they made two highly immersive themed areas that flow really well.

Yeah but on the flip side, nobody at my workplace talks about it at all

- - - Updated - - -

Personally, I think we'll see a third park at DLR before UOR gets a third park. The demand is much higher there for another park.

Absolutely. Their parks are packed to the brim, they need more space for people to spread. Universal isnt quite there yet. I believe the last time Universal hit capacity was in 2008, for a special event. Most of the time both parks average 15-minute waits. Even this past month, the parks were extremely bearable.

 

[mahnamahna]

Its not as niche as you think, the fact my coworkers ranging from 22 to 58 (I work in the US Air force) just spent two hours talking about Dragonball Z, Pokémon, how their kids love full metal alchemist and Sailor Moon, its has popularity just not an overt lets talk about it every day for hour popularity.

Aside from Pokemon, I can't really see anime getting an attraction/area. They're popular, but they wouldn't cause millions of tourists to book a vacation. I love anime and always hated that Disney gives Studio Ghibli the shaft in their parks, but I can't see a gigantic area. On the other hand, Pokemon could easily be developed into an attraction when you consider nostalgia and merch/food & beverage potential. Not to mention the kid/family appeal and the universal recognition of Pikachu (has a balloon in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade).

I'd like a whole anime area, but a Pokemon mini-land is probably the most I'd expect to see for anime over the next 10-15 years in an American-based theme park.

 

[Nick]

LotR and James Bond are the two main ones i'd love to see. If they are able to secure LotR, it would be a HUGE get as far as a headliner for the third park goes.

 

[mahnamahna]

James Bond and Fast and Furious might be better in USF considering they both take place in an urban setting... LOTR would definitely be welcome in a 3rd gate!

 

[kingcooger]

I'm kind of surprised that this is properly on the table alongside the waterpark as well... Good news though. I wonder what the total investment for building this scale and quality of park from scratch is nowadays? Considering IOA supposedly cost around $800m in the 1990s and the DCA rebuild cost $1.5bn, it would surely run to an astronomical figure. Wikipedia reckons DisneySEA cost $4bn but I would imagine that's a pretty big overstatement.

This article goes into some great depth about Disney parks and costs: http://********.com/30626-disneyland-resort-6/
A highlight for those who cannot read it at work:

"Now here’s a question: If you sent the Tower out to bid across a number of contractors, could it be built for less than $115M? My gut tells me not only yes, but significantly less. Working with WDI, and only WDI, to populate an A&E Menu is difficult at WDI prices. Wouldn’t it be refreshing to have a number of attraction vendors to put up against each other? WDI “overhead” can crush any hope for responsible spending. I know this is not a popular argument (see my first article…bad guy) but it’s a financial reality. How many of you work for a company where all of your Capital spending is dictated by a single vendor?"

Based upon this, we are going to have to look at Universal spending as opposed to Disney spending to get any idea of what the REAL cost could be.

 

[quinnmac000]

Absolutely. Their parks are packed to the brim, they need more space for people to spread. Universal isnt quite there yet. I believe the last time Universal hit capacity was in 2008, for a special event. Most of the time both parks average 15-minute waits. Even this past month, the parks were extremely bearable.

Maybe that's what they are trying to keep so they won't need to resort to other means like the park down the street.

 

[JungleSkip]

HTF just posted a bunch of pictures relating to the word "Major" on twitter, leading me to believe he may or may not be hinting at the Major Blvd land.

 

[Teebin]

Ok, found the Orange County appraiser map thing and I calculate that the area within the pink lines that I posted is worth 125 million (including the buildings). I know nothing about business and buyouts and how easy it is to compel various companies to sell out.

 

[DragonSlayer]

^ So about a week after Diagon opens we'll have enough money to flatten the lot

 

[JungleSkip]

Ok, found the Orange County appraiser map thing and I calculate that the area within the pink lines that I posted is worth 125 million (including the buildings). I know nothing about business and buyouts and how easy it is to compel various companies to sell out.

That, in Comcast's terms, is chump change. Even doubling to tripling it would probably be worth it to them. Very interesting.

 

[maxairmike]

Just popping in quickly to say that I do have the facts and figures that Teebin was asking about, unfortunately I'm mobile for most of the day and all of it is stored on my home computer. I do remember that one of those properties is not a franchise location unlike the other stores/hotels on that block. I also know there's plans for another office building to go up down Kirkman Rd a bit, which could allow the two office buildings along Major to more easily be taken care of. I'll be back later tonight with numbers and more in-depth stuff.

 

[Vyrus]

I'm with Skip...with Universal now securing the rights to Pacific Rim 2 and the cartoon I would love to have some sort of attraction where you take over a yaeger and have to battle Kaiju to save Orlando

Yea..thats a bad ass ride right there.

 

[Teebin]

It's interesting that the eastern most part of that area is vacant... a developer started but then quit.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.478641,-81.451886&spn=0.005366,0.007703&t=h&z=17

 

[maxairmike]

Yeah, that lot has been that way for quite a while, at least 4 years, likely more. One thing to keep in mind is that Major Blvd will be connected to Grand National via a new overpass as part of the later stages of the Ultimate I-4 project (roughly 2017), so any large scale development will take the new traffic flow into consideration, likely requiring large changes to Major Blvd that may require coordination with the Ultimate I-4 project.

 

[mahnamahna]

I'm with Skip...with Universal now securing the rights to Pacific Rim 2 and the cartoon I would love to have some sort of attraction where you take over a yaeger and have to battle Kaiju to save Orlando

Yea..thats a bad ass ride right there.

Sure it'd make a great ride, but the film wasn't really a phenom at the box office. Then again, that wouldn't necessarily mean it's not a great attraction.

Still don't know how Pacific Rim is getting a sequel ... $190 million production budget, likely $50-70 million in marketing, with only $410 million worldwide in total gross. Sure, it broke even more or less, but it's not really a mega-franchise and as shown by Star Trek 2 and HTTYD2, waiting 4 years between installments isn't a smart business move these days despite how good your film may be.

Pacific Rim 2 needs to considerably improve on the first's box office gross before I could see them choosing it over Godzilla or other Legendary IPs (like Warcraft). Being owned by Universal is the best thing going for a potential attraction unless Pacific Rim 2 and the animated spinoff surprise.

Not to mention, look at the kinds of films that Universal generally bases their big boy rides on -

Transformers
Despicable Me
Harry Potter series
Men in Black
E.T.
King Kong
Back to the Future
Ghostbusters
Twister
The Mummy (first two movies would adjust over $200 million domestically)
Jurassic Park
Terminator 2
JAWS
Shrek series

Even Beetlejuice was a fairly profitable movie ($72 million in 1988 dollars on a low budget). KidZone is on the way out, so essentially all of the major attractions will be based on blockbuster films. Pacific Rim doesn't really compare favorably to those films/franchises.

I wouldn't mind a Pacific Rim ride, but will it still be relevant by 2017? Hopefully, Universal markets it well.