Volcano Bay: General Discussion

[jrn14]

I think this is just a case of guest unfamiliarity.

Somewhat related, I work downtown across the street from a Brueggers Bagel Bakery that is very popular during the breakfast rush. There was always a long line to put in orders for food or coffee. About a year ago they redid the whole store and changed the ordering system. Now you no longer wait in a long line to place your order which you do almost as soon as you enter the store, however the time between when your order is placed and when you receive your food is longer. In the past you would wait in a long line to place the order, but they would make the food right as you ordered (Like a subway). Now you order right away and you go wait off to the side (like starbucks). EVERYONE complained that the new system was "broken" and it took ... "WAY LONGER". People were calling and emailing the corporate office with complaints, but I kind of did the math and realized that you're still waiting about the same amount of time... except now you're just waiting in a different place. When I brought it up to a few people they were kind of surprised and then after some reflection agreed. I think most people are just creatures of habit and something unfamiliar automatically seems longer, because it's new. I think everyone will like the queless line system better they just haven't properly wrapped their brains around it.

 

[anihilnation]

I think this is just a case of guest unfamiliarity.

Somewhat related, I work downtown across the street from a Brueggers Bagel Bakery that is very popular during the breakfast rush. There was always a long line to put in orders for food or coffee. About a year ago they redid the whole store and changed the ordering system. Now you no longer wait in a long line to place your order which you do almost as soon as you enter the store, however the time between when your order is placed and when you receive your food is longer. In the past you would wait in a long line to place the order, but they would make the food right as you ordered (Like a subway). Now you order right away and you go wait off to the side (like starbucks). EVERYONE complained that the new system was "broken" and it took ... "WAY LONGER". People were calling and emailing the corporate office with complaints, but I kind of did the math and realized that you're still waiting about the same amount of time... except now you're just waiting in a different place. When I brought it up to a few people they were kind of surprised and then after some reflection agreed. I think most people are just creatures of habit and something unfamiliar automatically seems longer, because it's new. I think everyone will like the queless line system better they just haven't properly wrapped their brains around it.

Good point. I also think there is an ironic frustration, because when you are waiting in a physical line, you subconsciously may feel like you are doing something (waiting in line), now with virtual queuing, you are thrown off, because you don't know what to do ...

 

[Evan]

I think this is just a case of guest unfamiliarity.

Somewhat related, I work downtown across the street from a Brueggers Bagel Bakery that is very popular during the breakfast rush. There was always a long line to put in orders for food or coffee. About a year ago they redid the whole store and changed the ordering system. Now you no longer wait in a long line to place your order which you do almost as soon as you enter the store, however the time between when your order is placed and when you receive your food is longer. In the past you would wait in a long line to place the order, but they would make the food right as you ordered (Like a subway). Now you order right away and you go wait off to the side (like starbucks). EVERYONE complained that the new system was "broken" and it took ... "WAY LONGER". People were calling and emailing the corporate office with complaints, but I kind of did the math and realized that you're still waiting about the same amount of time... except now you're just waiting in a different place. When I brought it up to a few people they were kind of surprised and then after some reflection agreed. I think most people are just creatures of habit and something unfamiliar automatically seems longer, because it's new. I think everyone will like the queless line system better they just haven't properly wrapped their brains around it.

This is the perfect point. It truly is all about guest perception. And that's a hard thing to change. Even if the waits the same, it's perceived differently, and sometimes trying to explain it is like talking to a brick wall... People don't want to hear it. They are angry, they are right, and no matter what you say the system was wrong.

I deal with this a lot in my line of work. Sometimes you just have to nod, smile, and say I'm sorry... and then give them free stuff to make them shut up. Not worth the fight.

I do think people do understand Tapu Tapu more than we're giving them credit, I think the issue stems from longer then expected waits, without the allowance to do other slides while waiting. As well as having to still stand in a line after you are told "Ride Now", I think some waits were still 20-30 minutes after getting the ride now notification, and that's just going to anger the uninformed guests.

 

[Frank Drackman]

I guess the question is: why didn't ops see this coming? I don't see how they can continue the Virtual Queue system. It's not working at all. What's sad is that the investment they put into this could've gone to making the park better themed.

Many have answered since this post, but I was going to say that it doesn't sound like this stuff was turned over to OPs soon enough.

UNI has blame in this (in my eyes), I mean, to me, it is like calling HP a seperate park (at lest that is how tourist seem to see it) ...selling VB as a water theme park..these 'marketing ploys' play into people's expectations, so yes, UNI did it to themselves, but it was not OPs not foreseeing the issues (not that I have inside info, but I get how a lot of companies run....)

 

[DoubleJ]

I think this is just a case of guest unfamiliarity.

Somewhat related, I work downtown across the street from a Brueggers Bagel Bakery that is very popular during the breakfast rush. There was always a long line to put in orders for food or coffee. About a year ago they redid the whole store and changed the ordering system. Now you no longer wait in a long line to place your order which you do almost as soon as you enter the store, however the time between when your order is placed and when you receive your food is longer. In the past you would wait in a long line to place the order, but they would make the food right as you ordered (Like a subway). Now you order right away and you go wait off to the side (like starbucks). EVERYONE complained that the new system was "broken" and it took ... "WAY LONGER". People were calling and emailing the corporate office with complaints, but I kind of did the math and realized that you're still waiting about the same amount of time... except now you're just waiting in a different place. When I brought it up to a few people they were kind of surprised and then after some reflection agreed. I think most people are just creatures of habit and something unfamiliar automatically seems longer, because it's new. I think everyone will like the queless line system better they just haven't properly wrapped their brains around it.

I believe the fact that you don't have to stand in line for an attraction leads to greater wait times. All you have to do is scan your wrist band and you're in line. Therefore, everyone in the park should be in line for something at all times. There's no excuse not to. This leads to drastically longer wait times, which is something the guests are obviously not responding well to.

Normally, when guests are eating lunch, they're not in line. When they're shopping they're not in line. When they're taking a break they're not in line. Nearly every single person you see in Volcano Bay should be in line for something. When 95% of the park is basically in a queue, that leads to longer waits, or much lower capacity, or both.

 

[tidecat]

Crowd levels at both parks, on Friday & Saturday, were very normal for a Memorial Day weekend, according to the TP calendar and subsequent stand by times. Looks like no substantial effect one way or another. But with VB being open, that would translate into more guests for the entire resort. So, it appears, VB didn't take attendance away from the parks.

The real question would be how did Volcano Bay draw compared to Wet 'N Wild 52 weeks prior? Even if attendance is a relative draw, the higher ticket prices, private cabanas, etc. at Volcano Bay would make it a better revenue generator than its predecessor.

 

[Disneyhead]

I guess the question is: why didn't ops see this coming? I don't see how they can continue the Virtual Queue system. It's not working at all. What's sad is that the investment they put into this could've gone to making the park better themed.

OMG!!!!! EPIC FAILURE!!!!! Better just bulldoze the place now and pretend it never happened!

SMFH, idk, why don't we wait until the ride ops (who had NO SOFTS) get even close to up to speed before screaming FAILURE!!!!! on the queuing system?

 

[DoubleJ]

OMG!!!!! EPIC FAILURE!!!!! Better just bulldoze the place now and pretend it never happened!

SMFH, idk, why don't we wait until the ride ops (who had NO SOFTS) get even close to up to speed before screaming FAILURE!!!!! on the queuing system?

I believe the fact that you don't have to stand in line for an attraction leads to greater wait times. All you have to do is scan your wrist band and you're in line. Therefore, everyone in the park should be in line for something at all times. There's no excuse not to. This leads to drastically longer wait times, which is something the guests are obviously not responding well to.

Normally, when guests are eating lunch, they're not in line. When they're shopping they're not in line. When they're taking a break they're not in line. Nearly every single person you see in Volcano Bay should be in line for something. When 95% of the park is basically in a queue, that leads to longer waits, or much lower capacity, or both.

See above. The queue system has a fundamental systemic flaw. Instead of lambasting me, try hearing my argument and responding with your views. I welcome them.

 

[Liam]

Apologies if this has been asked before but what is the bottom of the wave pool like? Is it smooth like aquatica or that horrible stuff Disney use that cuts you to shreds?

 

[Lisastevo88]

I for one (rather selfishly) have already purchased Express unlimited for June 25th so I hope they continue with the system until then!!! I had foreseen the long wait times and as we are coming over for the UK and can only dedicate 1 day to the park we thought it would be worth the extra money to be able to do everything in the 1 day we will be in the park. Also have a single cabana booked too. We knew within a month of opening it would be super busy and the extra money to be able to ride everything and get a proper base camp was totally worth it. My folks went to Aquatica within a week of opening and didn't want to experience anything like that again!! My personal opinion is that people have not quite grasped the "virtual" queue and we're expecting shorter or non existent wait times but that is a marketing problem! If you are physically standing in line for a new ride you would be waiting 300 mins and wouldn't be able to go to the bathroom, grad a drink, laze about so I think a queueless system in the long run will work wonders but people just have to get there heads around it and Universal need to get the figures and ride data up to scratch first. Time will tell.

 

[Cheezbat]

Part of the problem with This virtual queueing is that people are so accustomed to the way things operate everywhere else, as well as being a culture of 'instant gratification'...everybody is impatient and wants it now now now! No waits.

I think that Universal needs to consider interactive and alternative attractions for people to do throughout the park while waiting for the slides. The wave pool, rivers, and bars are not enough to keep thousands of people entertained while waiting.

 

[Mad Dog]

The real question would be how did Volcano Bay draw compared to Wet 'N Wild 52 weeks prior? Even if attendance is a relative draw, the higher ticket prices, private cabanas, etc. at Volcano Bay would make it a better revenue generator than its predecessor.

Probably no real comparison. VB will draw a high per guest spending crowd, many of them on site hotel guests. It probably will be a huge revenue generator. Wet & Wild, while having decent attendance, basically gave away season passes to get people in. And the demographic was comprised mostly of young locals who didn't spend much. Not many hotel guests went over there even though it was only a couple of blocks from the Universal resort. ...The numbers to watch are revenue, more so than attendance. Those numbers will probably be night & day differences.

 

[Lisastevo88]

Part of the problem with This virtual queueing is that people are so accustomed to the way things operate everywhere else, as well as being a culture of 'instant gratification'...everybody is impatient and wants it now now now! No waits.

I think that Universal needs to consider interactive and alternative attractions for people to do throughout the park while waiting for the slides. The wave pool, rivers, and bars are not enough to keep thousands of people entertained while waiting.

So true. Although if the virtual queue system wasn't in place everyone would be standing in line for however long and not be moaning anywhere near as much as they are now. And that is with the bars, wave pool, rivers open for enjoyment so I don't really get it. I fully understand the system and embrace the fact that especially in a busy opening/holiday weekend that I would have to wait a substantial amount of time to ride and being able to wait that substantial amount of time NOT in a physical line is a bonus. I truly believe people were expecting there to be shorter or non existent waits and that, to me, is very naive on some people's part.

 

[Mad Dog]

So true. Although if the virtual queue system wasn't in place everyone would be standing in line for however long and not be moaning anywhere near as much as they are now. And that is with the bars, wave pool, rivers open for enjoyment so I don't really get it. I fully understand the system and embrace the fact that especially in a busy opening/holiday weekend that I would have to wait a substantial amount of time to ride and being able to wait that substantial amount of time NOT in a physical line is a bonus. I truly believe people were expecting there to be shorter or non existent waits and that, to me, is very naive on some people's part.

This all needs some time to shake out. we'll know more about it in the next couple of months. The first few days, especially with a construction schedule that fell behind, are probably an aberration.....By the way, Welcome to the Forums. :thumbsup: And we can never have too many posters from the UK. You people are great. :thumbsup:

 

[Ryan]

See above. The queue system has a fundamental systemic flaw. Instead of lambasting me, try hearing my argument and responding with your views. I welcome them.

Would they rather stand on a crowded staircase for an hour? Water parks are made for relaxing just as much as they're made for riding. It'll take time, but they'll get there.

 

[P@n!K_Sw1tC#]

You know, if it's truly an ops issue and not a technology issue then shame on Universal for thinking that this is acceptable. What a difference opinions make when people are paying for admission vs. those that are getting comp'd tickets, free rooms, and free food/drink. Way to create a great first impression for your paying customers.


They could have controlled guest occupancy based on the lower capacity but they chose to make a quick buck instead at the expense of their guests. Shows how much they really care. #DifferenceBetweenUOandWDW

 

[Ryan]

...they're doing that?! Like, right now?

 

[P@n!K_Sw1tC#]

It'd be one thing if Aqua Coaster and the Krakatoa slides were all 5hour waits, but it's another when the entire park is. When I first got wind of the problem I assumed everybody booked up the most popular rides, which caused a bottleneck in ops. But clearly, as Disneyhead said, this seems to be a throughput issue where their admission algorithms are admitting way more people than what the ops team can currently do. It's not fair to expect your minimum wage employees to get it right on day one with zero real world training.

And I'm only going to assume that it's the front line staff that's taking the majority of the heat from pissed off guests.

Universal has been around long enough to know better.

 

[Disneyhead]

See above. The queue system has a fundamental systemic flaw. Instead of lambasting me, try hearing my argument and responding with your views. I welcome them.

First off, chronology is important in discussions. Your "systemic flaw" post came after my post you quoted.

But on to your argument. Accesso, the company handling the virtual queue system, is arguably the industry's premier "Queuing Theory and Technology Company". They understand that the guy who would pass on jumping in a 45 min. line where he would spend 45 mins. standing on stairs would likely "Tap" to join a 120 min. virtual queue. That's the appeal of "virtual queues", not standing on stairs for 45 mins over and over all day.

And, in truth, the "queuing system" seems to be working just fine. People just aren't liking the answer they are getting. What seems to be the main problem isn't the queuing system as much as through put on the attractions. You want your most experienced ride ops on near capacity days. Instead they have poor TMs that are flailing miserably because, well, everything. Untrained, inexperienced, tech issues, down times, too much of everything, not enough of anything. Accesso knows the theoretical and estimated real world HRC of each of the attractions. If the ride ops can get close to the model numbers, the system will be fine.

I do wonder if they regret pushing the mammoth to phase 1.5?

 

[Imagineer83]

Normally, when guests are eating lunch, they're not in line. When they're shopping they're not in line. When they're taking a break they're not in line. Nearly every single person you see in Volcano Bay should be in line for something. When 95% of the park is basically in a queue, that leads to longer waits, or much lower capacity, or both.

This is the best breakdown I have seen as to why some think the Tapu Tapu system is flawed. There really is no reason to not be in a virtual line at any time (especially when the waits are 200+ minutes). I think better operations will help work through the kinks of the system but it will be interesting to see how Universal handles the basic conflict that a solid 90% of the guests in the park are literally waiting in a virtual line. I get why many are concerned but I have faith that Universal did their research and have a strategy.