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Halloween Horror Nights 23 Speculation

  • Thread starter Thread starter Vyrus
  • Start date Start date Nov 5, 2012
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Felipe

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  • Jul 29, 2013
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Fallow said:
Yes, this. The event was arguably more popular in some of its original years - though 2007 seems to be the king in terms of success, which combined originality AND IPs in a way that most fans seemed to enjoy. If we got a 2007 style presentation? I'd be pretty happy. Marketing gets their IPs, A&D gets their original content, passion projects, and storytelling, fans get their icon and proper website & buildup.
Click to expand...

I was not lucky enough to attend in 2007 (2008 was my first year), but that's another prime example. It was HHN - Carnival of Carnage, where Jack (a HHN original icon) hosted Freddy, Jason and Leatherface. These IPs were characters within the grand theme and story. They were secondary characters to the HHN name and original content / story.
 
TylerDurden

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I get Halloween Horror Nights is meant to freak people out--that's what you don't want to do when catering to a broader audience. I'm not for the direction they're headed, I'm just a little more forgiving and understanding of it because I can look at it from the perspective of a more casual visitor.

Also you both just admitted your first years were 2008...so how can you judge that 2006 was the busiest year..? Yes it sold out a lot, but the increase in FFP's and Universal's greed have made 'capacity' a higher number than before. Where in 2006 they sold x amount of tickets and that was it, now you've got x amount of tickets (which I wouldn't be surprised if it was a higher number now) PLUS whoever shows up with some iteration of the FFP. That's more people coming in.

As for merchandise, the fact that Walking Dead sells strongly throughout the year speaks volumes about its popularity and its draw for Halloween...what other HHN franchise has had an in-park presence 365 days a year?
 
Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
Clive

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TylerDurden said:
I get Halloween Horror Nights is meant to freak people out--that's what you don't want to do when catering to a broader audience. I'm not for the direction they're headed, I'm just a little more forgiving and understanding of it because I can look at it from the perspective of a more casual visitor.

Also you both just admitted your first years were 2008...so how can you judge that 2006 was the busiest year..? Yes it sold out a lot, but the increase in FFP's and Universal's greed have made 'capacity' a higher number than before. Where in 2006 they sold x amount of tickets and that was it, now you've got x amount of tickets (which I wouldn't be surprised if it was a higher number now) PLUS whoever shows up with some iteration of the FFP. That's more people coming in.

As for merchandise, the fact that Walking Dead sells strongly throughout the year speaks volumes about its popularity and its draw for Halloween...what other HHN franchise has had an in-park presence 365 days a year?
Click to expand...

So let me get this straight - if I'm trying to market a horror movie, I DON'T try and freak people out? I'm sorry, that still doesn't make a lick of sense. It's fun to be 'scared' in a safe environment, but you want to push the envelope as much as possible to get people to come. The Conjuring is making bundles of money in theaters right now, and it's not because its trailers made people feel comfortable. I really don't get where your basis is for this theory, as I've never heard it before (probably for good reason).

You make it sound like "admitting" my first year was 2008 invalidates my remarks... not so at all. I can judge 2006's crowds based on the wait times it drew and the nights it sold out compared with the amount of capacity/attractions offered (and there's plenty of records out there if you look on old forums), not because I was "there" and it felt crowded, but because I've looked at the facts and made logical conclusions and comparisons. In 2006 it was extremely routine for many houses have 2, sometimes 3, hour plus waits , not just for Hell week and not just for Walking Dead or Saw.

And as for your "capacity" arguments, I'm sorry, Universal doesn't get to play fast and loose with the legal amount of people they are allowed to enter its park. The option to open Marvel and its rides exists for a reason, to legally be allowed to keep letting people in, and they did it quite frequently in that era of the event - and they STILL sold out. I ask again - when was the last time they opened up Marvel? In those days, you had far more rides open to soak up crowds with an additional show. How can you honestly tell me 2012 had more bodies in the streets with less rides, less entertainment, and no Marvel, along with lower overall wait times and only one sold out night? You keep ignoring the points I make about the increased capacity of the park and just say Universal let more tickets in. It doesn't work that way, and as someone who apparently has some connections over there, I think you'd know that.

Walking Dead is not a Halloween property, or an HHN "franchise." It's a drama that has zombies. They're selling (what I'm assuming is) generic merchandise. Show me another Halloween-esque property Universal has given a consistent merchandising presence and we'll talk (I'll assume there's some WD stuff in Cyberdyne, I haven't seen it anywhere else). This does not negate my point about other IP merchandise not selling very well versus more original stuff - WD can easily be an exception, not the rule (if it was horror related to begin with). How'd all that Silent Hill stuff sell, by the way...?

Understand that I'm not denying that the show's a hit: it is, I watch it, it's a smash. That doesn't mean whore your event out to it, and it doesn't make it a horror property - and it certainly doesn't mean Halloween HORROR Nights should stop trying to be horrifying. I mean, by your logic, should we make a Game of Thrones "Red Wedding" house because that's a super popular show that'll make people feel comfortable...?
 
Felipe

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  • Jul 29, 2013
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TylerDurden said:
I get Halloween Horror Nights is meant to freak people out--that's what you don't want to do when catering to a broader audience. I'm not for the direction they're headed, I'm just a little more forgiving and understanding of it because I can look at it from the perspective of a more casual visitor.

Also you both just admitted your first years were 2008...so how can you judge that 2006 was the busiest year..? Yes it sold out a lot, but the increase in FFP's and Universal's greed have made 'capacity' a higher number than before. Where in 2006 they sold x amount of tickets and that was it, now you've got x amount of tickets (which I wouldn't be surprised if it was a higher number now) PLUS whoever shows up with some iteration of the FFP. That's more people coming in.

As for merchandise, the fact that Walking Dead sells strongly throughout the year speaks volumes about its popularity and its draw for Halloween...what other HHN franchise has had an in-park presence 365 days a year?
Click to expand...

This is just going in circles, but anyways. This isn't about us not understanding. We just laid out the logic; we understand it. Popular IPs bring in the masses. We get it. What we're arguing for, is to have both things: IPs and original content, in balance, and keeping HHN authentic to the classic HHN way, which was never broken and needed no fixin'. They can do it, as they have done it before. This year they're just heavy handed on the IPs, and very light on the creative. Or at least they're making themselves be perceived this way, by their marketing campaign and all the info they've released.
 
C

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  • Jul 29, 2013
  • #1,425
USO92 said:
^^Not really lol. I'm not gonna spend my money just because of the name behind the house. If the quality is bad I dont care if you're Dwayne Johnson, I aint paying to see it.
Click to expand...

What I mean is you're getting the same quality once you're in the house. The IP's are still top notch mazes. Yes theyre using other peoples intellectual property but it still takes a lot to recreate those scenes and stick to a theme throughout the entire house.
 
Clive

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Capacity said:
What I mean is you're getting the same quality once you're in the house. The IP's are still top notch mazes. Yes theyre using other peoples intellectual property but it still takes a lot to recreate those scenes and stick to a theme throughout the entire house.
Click to expand...

Did we go through the same Walking Dead and Silent Hill houses...?

(Penn & Teller and Alice Cooper were also pretty bleh to awful.)
 
C

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  • Jul 29, 2013
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Fallow said:
Did we go through the same Walking Dead and Silent Hill houses...?

(Penn & Teller and Alice Cooper were also pretty bleh to awful.)
Click to expand...

To be honest I've never been a huge fan of HHN. I hate the way they push you through the houses. The walking dead scareactors did nothing for me. I couldn't tell if they were zombies or if they were just drunk hillbillies. And everything from the camper to the end of the house was crap. I thought the Silent Hill and Alice Cooper Houses were pretty good though.
 
tiredoldspook

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  • Jul 29, 2013
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The one thing that all was amazed me about HHN fans is the frequent Fear people who go on Hell nights. I did it years ago HHN 13 and it was just miserable We left about 830 and the crowds coming in to city walk were just insane. I was in orlando the year they did Carnival of Carnage and heard on the News to avoid Kirkman if you could because Traffic was Off Kirkman past the Turn Pike Exit on I-4. If I had been to an event a number of times already and had a few days left I would skip those nights.
 
Eric

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  • Jul 29, 2013
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All of you keep talking about IP's in relation to HHN, but does it bother you that all of Universal's expansions are IP's as well?

Most attractions have stopped being original and have transitioned to IP's. As much as most of you don't like it, it appears HHN is doing the exact same thing.
 
neoshinok

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tiredoldspook said:
The one thing that all was amazed me about HHN fans is the frequent Fear people who go on Hell nights. I did it years ago HHN 13 and it was just miserable We left about 830 and the crowds coming in to city walk were just insane. I was in orlando the year they did Carnival of Carnage and heard on the News to avoid Kirkman if you could because Traffic was Off Kirkman past the Turn Pike Exit on I-4. If I had been to an event a number of times already and had a few days left I would skip those nights.
Click to expand...

This is why I now go to HowlOScream. The amount of people they allow into HHN and the poor crowd control make it a miserable experience. HHN also seems to draw a type of crowd very different from the typical Universal day crowd, a less than desirable group of people to be around. Not everyone obviously, but there were way too many unruly groups the last couple times I attended.
 
TylerDurden

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Fallow said:
So let me get this straight - if I'm trying to market a horror movie, I DON'T try and freak people out? I'm sorry, that still doesn't make a lick of sense. It's fun to be 'scared' in a safe environment, but you want to push the envelope as much as possible to get people to come. The Conjuring is making bundles of money in theaters right now, and it's not because its trailers made people feel comfortable. I really don't get where your basis is for this theory, as I've never heard it before (probably for good reason).
Click to expand...

You're not reading what I am saying; yes Halloween should be scary. But several people don't like being scared to the point of going into things they don't understand. The Bloody Mary story, for instance, was extremely dark--a very macabre and twisted concept that brought about fear even be looking at the billboards. This is the kind of thing people will stay away from.

HHN has probably realized that considering the size and scope of their event, they needed to stop targeting only the small niche that were hardcore horror fans who ate up the R-rated stuff in the icon stories (notice how Lady Luck tried to be an icon that was easier to swallow and how it failed miserably). Casual horror fans (the type who see PG-13 horror movies and slasher flicks) can still be scared by The Walking Dead (who said it made anyone comfortable?), without being completely isolated by a crazy backstory and gory advertising materials. Hell, I remember the advertisement for the Jack the Clown year (when I first moved to Orlando) and thought there was no way I'd go to that event; of course, had I seen a picture of Michael Myers or even Jack Torrance, I would've been a little less hesitant to go because I know those characters, I can relate with them, and I can be scared by them without being made uncomfortable. In a hospitality/tourism business as big as Universal, you can't make people uncomfortable--however just because you and I don't think TWD is scary doesn't mean other people won't.

Universal is a growing business, and a major player in Orlando now, even more so than before. Cult followings aren't going to do them any good anymore. Also, as to the capacity argument, it should be noted that the houses were pulsed in 2006, inflating wait times.

- - - Updated - - -

Eric said:
All of you keep talking about IP's in relation to HHN, but does it bother you that all of Universal's expansions are IP's as well?

Most attractions have stopped being original and have transitioned to IP's. As much as most of you don't like it, it appears HHN is doing the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

Yep
 
Norman Bates

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  • Jul 29, 2013
  • #1,432
What if HHN did a remake house on one of the original houses from years past...have they done that before?
 
Brian G.

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  • Jul 29, 2013
  • #1,433
IOArules39 said:
What if HHN did a remake house on one of the original houses from years past...have they done that before?
Click to expand...

During HHN 16, some of the most popular houses were kinda/sorta rebooted with icons being involved.
 
Vyrus

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IOArules39 said:
What if HHN did a remake house on one of the original houses from years past...have they done that before?
Click to expand...

Yea 16 had these houses rebooted from the early years:

Dungeon of Terror (featuring Storyteller)
Psycho
People Under the Stairs
 
Clive

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Eric said:
All of you keep talking about IP's in relation to HHN, but does it bother you that all of Universal's expansions are IP's as well?

Most attractions have stopped being original and have transitioned to IP's. As much as most of you don't like it, it appears HHN is doing the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

Universal has never been about original attractions for its day time parks... they've always been IP based. The only "originality" we ever really got from them (ever) was the Port of Entry/Lost Continent at Islands, and arguably Disaster! at the Studios. They're very much the exceptions, not the rule. HHN was the opportunity to see new ideas, new concepts, new characters.

TylerDurden said:
You're not reading what I am saying; yes Halloween should be scary. But several people don't like being scared to the point of going into things they don't understand. The Bloody Mary story, for instance, was extremely dark--a very macabre and twisted concept that brought about fear even be looking at the billboards. This is the kind of thing people will stay away from.

HHN has probably realized that considering the size and scope of their event, they needed to stop targeting only the small niche that were hardcore horror fans who ate up the R-rated stuff in the icon stories (notice how Lady Luck tried to be an icon that was easier to swallow and how it failed miserably). Casual horror fans (the type who see PG-13 horror movies and slasher flicks) can still be scared by The Walking Dead (who said it made anyone comfortable?), without being completely isolated by a crazy backstory and gory advertising materials. Hell, I remember the advertisement for the Jack the Clown year (when I first moved to Orlando) and thought there was no way I'd go to that event; of course, had I seen a picture of Michael Myers or even Jack Torrance, I would've been a little less hesitant to go because I know those characters, I can relate with them, and I can be scared by them without being made uncomfortable. In a hospitality/tourism business as big as Universal, you can't make people uncomfortable--however just because you and I don't think TWD is scary doesn't mean other people won't.

Universal is a growing business, and a major player in Orlando now, even more so than before. Cult followings aren't going to do them any good anymore. Also, as to the capacity argument, it should be noted that the houses were pulsed in 2006, inflating wait times.

- - - Updated - - -

Yep
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, there are arguments to explain why Universal is skewing towards IPs, but this isn't it. You aren't reading anything Felipe and I are saying (including the plethora of facts that seem to recant some of the things you're insisting are true) and instead just trying to force this argument, which again I've literally never heard from anyone (for good reason). I'm not going to bother repeating myself since, as Felipe noted, this is going in circles.

As for 2006 - news to me that it was pulsed. Seems conga lines started around the 2004-2006 period in part due to the increasing wait times.
 
TylerDurden

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Fallow said:
Universal has never been about original attractions for its day time parks... they've always been IP based. The only "originality" we ever really got from them (ever) was the Port of Entry/Lost Continent at Islands, and arguably Disaster! at the Studios. They're very much the exceptions, not the rule. HHN was the opportunity to see new ideas, new concepts, new characters.



I'm sorry, there are arguments to explain why Universal is skewing towards IPs, but this isn't it. You aren't reading anything Felipe and I are saying (including the plethora of facts that seem to recant some of the things you're insisting are true) and instead just trying to force this argument, which again I've literally never heard from anyone (for good reason). I'm not going to bother repeating myself since, as Felipe noted, this is going in circles.

As for 2006 - news to me that it was pulsed. Seems conga lines started around the 2004-2006 period in part due to the increasing wait times.
Click to expand...

lolololol what facts?? Im defending the events direction from a certain perspective. Just because you refuse to see any other opinion besides your own doesnt mean you have 'facts'. This is an entirely opinion-based argument about the place of IPs in Halloween Horror Nights. Not everyone is as hardcore a fan as you are, Im simply trying to point that out to you but considering how this discussion has been going I agree its going in circles and we'll just have to disagree :thumbs:
 
Octobers Fade

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I agree with everything you have said Fallow!
 
Jakemeister

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The 2006 argument on attendance also doesn't take the economy and recession into account. The economy started seriously declining 2007 post HHN. That's truly why we haven't sold out since. Plus more event nights now, and longer hours.
 
Clive

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Jakemeister said:
The 2006 argument on attendance also doesn't take the economy and recession into account. The economy started seriously declining 2007 post HHN. That's truly why we haven't sold out since. Plus more event nights now, and longer hours.
Click to expand...

That's a good point, and one I haven't forgotten. Still, it feels like 2008's low attendance was blamed on the original content rather than the more likely actual reason (the economy going down the tubes).

Still interesting to note that pre-2008, original years still had more bodies in the park than 2012-era Walking Dead bonanzas, even with additional attractions, shows, and park space to lighten the load. Longer park hours really don't have an impact on how many people can be inside the park, capacity-wise... but more nights do, that's a fair point.

The point I'm trying to make, though, is that original content easily sold an insane amount of tickets before to the point of selling out - whoring to IPs is not necessary to see these sorts of crowds, which is what Tyler seems to be implying.
 
Octobers Fade

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Fallow said:
That's a good point, and one I haven't forgotten. Still, it feels like 2008's low attendance was blamed on the original content rather than the more likely actual reason (the economy going down the tubes).

Still interesting to note that pre-2008, original years still had more bodies in the park than 2012-era Walking Dead bonanzas, even with additional attractions, shows, and park space to lighten the load. Longer park hours really don't have an impact on how many people can be inside the park, capacity-wise... but more nights do, that's a fair point.

The point I'm trying to make, though, is that original content easily sold an insane amount of tickets before to the point of selling out - whoring to IPs is not necessary to see these sorts of crowds, which is what Tyler seems to be implying.
Click to expand...

Before the need to de-value the tickets and let people in for a $10 a night, if they were to go all nights available wit a FFP.
 
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