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Halloween Horror Nights 32 (UOR) - News & Info

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I do not agree that “You get X number of nights at the event” is more confusing than telling someone who booked a hotel Wednesday to Monday for the event in October “Okay if you only want to go Wednesday, Thursday and Sunday, get this ticket. If you want Friday to get this one. And if you want Saturday as well you have to buy this pass for ever single night of the event. Oh and express? Lol that’s gonna cost you your first born. And you’ll absolutely need it because our crowds are out of control.”

I could see keeping the existing structure around…IF you also add length of stay passes for people actually staying at the resort. So much of HHN’s ticketing practices are focused on getting as many locals through the door as often as possible, and feel like a remnant (as does so much of UOR’s operations in general) from a time when the place was on life support. They don’t reflect the thriving tourist hub it current is.
Good points on the on site tourists. They really seem to be the odd man out during HHN. They're spending the big bucks, but are kind of an afterthought with the HHN ticketing, plus their use of the theme parks is limited by HHN, especially when they do the IOA party early night closing. And there's no doubt that on site tourists are the highest spending per guest category. I always thought that back when we were staying on site in September and October. Yeah, I think that Universal treats them secondary, compared to locals, and as you said, it's a remnant of the Universal dark ages. It's not many years ago that Universal only had about 2000+ hotel rooms on site. Now it's around 8 or 9 thousand. It's a different world......Even the overall ticketing reflects that. Locals get much better ticket and hotel deals than out of state U.S. tourists. Although it seems the International visitors get good specials also through their resort companies.
 
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I just realized a point of confusion in this ongoing discussion. People keep saying Universal needs to “increase capacity.” But its capacity is fine as is. The event supports roughly 45-50k people a night. The problem that actually needs to be addressed is relieving congestion. Because those are two different challenges but congestion is what actually affects the guest experience.

And sure, capacity is related to congestion, but one is a spatial problem while the other is numerical.
 
I just realized a point of confusion in this ongoing discussion. People keep saying Universal needs to “increase capacity.” But its capacity is fine as is. The event supports roughly 45-50k people a night. The problem that actually needs to be addressed is relieving congestion. Because those are two different challenges but congestion is what actually affects the guest experience.

And sure, capacity is related to congestion, but one is a spatial problem while the other is numerical.

Yeah there's a ton of rides they could easily open. But they obviously want lower operating costs + more express passes sold. Gotta pay for Epic somehow...
 
At a certain point you hit "The Adventurers Club" effect. For years AdvClub had a small number of mostly CPs who would come in and nurse a $3 Coke for the night enjoying the shows. Not a big deal when it's two or three of them. But eventually word got around in the days of message boards/proto social media and it became "the place" in WDW ... and soon half the seats were taken up by CPs who got in free nursing a $3 Coke, and stepping on the actors' lines to show they're part of the show too (how will anyone know what a huge Haunted Mansion fan you are if you don't spiel along with Thurl?). That crowd taking up that much space deterred the casual PI guest who spent $25 on a cover charge and would've run up a $50 - $100 bar tab from staying too long.

Admittedly it's a delicate balance -- you want those early influencers to drive crowds. But once it becomes the equivalent of Rocky Horror (perhaps a better analogy than "hanging out"), it deters the real money guests from attending.
I think you’re conflating two very different groups. One is the folks who like to attend theme parks (or themed bars) in a relaxed, spontaneous manner, either alone or with friends and family, usually because that’s the specific type of recreation they enjoy, just as some enjoy beaches or casinos or what have you. They buy merch and hotel rooms and are more likely to be repeat visitors with a deep loyalty to the brand (something Uni needs to build), but apparently the metrics say they’re not lucrative enough - Disney has been at war with those folks for a decade or more, with awful results for guests AND for Disney.

The second group are show-offs, many of them influencers, who want to be the center of attention - the exact opposite of the above group, which is focused on their surroundings. I really haven’t encountered this group to any significant degree, certainly nothing beyond one or two meaningless twerps a year. There’s a bit more of the “talking along” thing at Disneyland, but that struck me as being part of the resorts peculiar charm, the fact that it was actually part of a vibrant community (something Disney is trying to eliminate). I remain unconvinced this second group is an overwhelming contributor to crowding.

As a member of that first group, I’m not shortchanging Uni. I buy a ton of junk. I stay on property for long stretches. I eat all my meals there. I’m not wild about the idea that I’m doing Universal “wrong.” My interests are those of a consumer, not a Comcast shareholder - beyond an academic interest and a desire that it convinces Universal to keep maintaining the parks and building high-quality new attractions, I do not care about Universal’s financial situation.

In terms of HHN, my best case scenario is that Uni tries innovative ideas of the type Brian suggested to increase capacity and move the event forward. My second choice is that they just leave it the way it is - the way I tour, the crowds aren’t a huge issue. What I don’t want to see are skyrocketing prices, limited ticket options, reservations, or any other heavy-handed attempts to force guests to vacation “correctly.” I’ve already lost one theme resort to that nonsense.

PS: Legacy’s point is spot on. Uni needs to get better at moving crowds where they want them, at filling up empty corners and emptying full ones. The Studios weren’t designed for an event of this magnitude, and it’s going to require creative thinking to make it continue to fit. When Epic opens and some of the backstage areas at the Studios are freed up, they need to reconfigure space to smooth guest flow. They also need more timed events to push guests where they want them and (as Brian said) some appealing but mobile draws like costumed meet and greets to fill empty spots. And, again, the San Fran and CP scarezones need a big rethink.
 
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This discussion has evolved into a nice conversation that shows how many different aspects this issue has. Interests of the casual, hardcore, on site vacationing tourists, locals staying in hotel rooms, social media players, teenagers, hang outs, and other guest interests, sometimes merge, and sometimes oppose. Often the interests of one group detract from another groups experience. And then there's the issues of ticketing, cost, proper use of the limited space, need for more shows, more open attractions, park profit, etc. Bottom line....This is a very complicated situation that has some possible solutions. Even my personal opinions have changed somewhat after reading some of these really fine posts that point out some excellent arguments on how to approach what has evidently become a problem with HHN. ....It'll be very interesting to see how this plays out for next years HHN 33....And, one last point. This shows how IU forum posters steadfastly can put forth arguments on an issue without becoming rude or abusive like many of the other theme park sites' discussion boards. I give all of you a pat on the back for your civilized participation in this lively debate. . .
 
I saw NF for the first time this year after skipping their previous performances and… um… anyone who wants it can have my seat in future years. The show is SO earnest. I find it hard to imagine watching it a second time, let alone more than that. The event really needs a comedy show for balance. In any case, may those who enjoy it continue to enjoy it and may it continue to play to packed houses.

I appreciated the energy and talent of the performers. However, “earnest” is a great way to describe it. I’m not a fan. It feels out of place to me especially in the absence of a lagoon show and the empty scare zones. The overall atmosphere of the event is simply not what it was pre covid. Perhaps this is something universal likes IDK.

I agree a comedy show would be fantastic or at least something that fits a little more within the spooky season.
 
Have they ever thought of doing attraction overlays to artificially “raise” capacity by incentivizing an increase in demand for attractions with the overlay? I’d have to imagine Halloween/horror overlays for Fallon, F&F, and Simpsons would be very possible and could be very popular, especially if they features either hot horror properties or HHN fan favorites like the icons.

Edit: I don’t mean raise the demand for the event as a whole to sell more tickets, more so that any overlay would be a “side” attraction with the intent of pulling a portion of the crowds away from the streets or house queues.
 
Have they ever thought of doing attraction overlays to artificially “raise” capacity by incentivizing an increase in demand for attractions with the overlay? I’d have to imagine Halloween/horror overlays for Fallon, F&F, and Simpsons would be very possible and could be very popular, especially if they features either hot horror properties or HHN fan favorites like the icons.

Edit: I don’t mean raise the demand for the event as a whole to sell more tickets, more so that any overlay would be a “side” attraction with the intent of pulling a portion of the crowds away from the streets or house queues.
They did them in 2001, and a Treehouse of Horrors overlay was in the works until voice actor negotiations delayed the production of the entire attraction (so they never bothered going back to renegotiate it). An overlay of a screen-based attraction is basically the creation of a whole new attraction and, while I think it would be the biggest impact as far as changing crowd patterns, I don’t know if Creative is interested in developing an attraction that only tuns two months when they have everything else going on.
 
A Halloween overlay of ET would be aces. Something silly and tongue in cheek. Throw Halloween masks on all the animatronics. Play a different song when you get to the Green Planet.

It would be dumb but still be daytime friendly while fitting the party vibe of current HHN.

And throw scareactors in the queue.

EDIT TO ADD - Make it even more fun and hide a slasher character throughout the ride, but it’s only lit up for HHN.
 
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I think you’re conflating two very different groups. One is the folks who like to attend theme parks (or themed bars) in a relaxed, spontaneous manner, either alone or with friends and family, usually because that’s the specific type of recreation they enjoy, just as some enjoy beaches or casinos or what have you. They buy merch and hotel rooms and are more likely to be repeat visitors with a deep loyalty to the brand (something Uni needs to build), but apparently the metrics say they’re not lucrative enough - Disney has been at war with those folks for a decade or more, with awful results for guests AND for Disney.

The second group are show-offs, many of them influencers, who want to be the center of attention - the exact opposite of the above group, which is focused on their surroundings. I really haven’t encountered this group to any significant degree, certainly nothing beyond one or two meaningless twerps a year. There’s a bit more of the “talking along” thing at Disneyland, but that struck me as being part of the resorts peculiar charm, the fact that it was actually part of a vibrant community (something Disney is trying to eliminate). I remain unconvinced this second group is an overwhelming contributor to crowding.

As a member of that first group, I’m not shortchanging Uni. I buy a ton of junk. I stay on property for long stretches. I eat all my meals there. I’m not wild about the idea that I’m doing Universal “wrong.” My interests are those of a consumer, not a Comcast shareholder - beyond an academic interest and a desire that it convinces Universal to keep maintaining the parks and building high-quality new attractions, I do not care about Universal’s financial situation.

In terms of HHN, my best case scenario is that Uni tries innovative ideas of the type Brian suggested to increase capacity and move the event forward. My second choice is that they just leave it the way it is - the way I tour, the crowds aren’t a huge issue. What I don’t want to see are skyrocketing prices, limited ticket options, reservations, or any other heavy-handed attempts to force guests to vacation “correctly.” I’ve already lost one theme resort to that nonsense.

PS: Legacy’s point is spot on. Uni needs to get better at moving crowds where they want them, at filling up empty corners and emptying full ones. The Studios weren’t designed for an event of this magnitude, and it’s going to require creative thinking to make it continue to fit. When Epic opens and some of the backstage areas at the Studios are freed up, they need to reconfigure space to smooth guest flow. They also need more timed events to push guests where they want them and (as Brian said) some appealing but mobile draws like costumed meet and greets to fill empty spots. And, again, the San Fran and CP scarezones need a big rethink.
110% agree.

I'm local to Orlando. I've been to HHN32 about 13 times so far this year. I own a FF+ Pass. I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to splurge on around $275 worth of merchandise from the event, a usual $20 on food each night (Thanks Minion Cafe for bringing the median price down there from Louies lol), and a couple nights worth of hotel stays. Universal is not losing money on my 13 nights. I spend this money because Universal does good work. I largely don't do the same for Seaworld, Disney, or Busch.

I love watching the event grow over the course of the two month run, through the actor's continuing grasp on their roles, to the differences between A and B casts, to little quirks like the mask debacle and seeing how the performers work with the cards they've been dealt. I love catching little details, the setpieces and gags in the margins of houses that A&D design knowing that they'll get overlooked by 98% of the GP, the real hard work put into costuming or brand integrity by the designers and employees behind the scenes. I love going with people who've never been, and watching their reactions to the incredible houses, zones, and scares that HHN can offer for the first time. I love getting as much of a taste as I can of these attractions, because I know that at the end of these two months these will all close, the performers will scatter in the wind, and the entire attraction will be gutted and trashed as if it had never even been there.

We have an attraction based on The Last of Us this year, with a Universal Studios-level budget and production design, so much love and care, an entire team of people making sure it is as good as it possibly can be, and this attraction will be torn to shreds after its second month of operation, and there is a non-zero chance that we'll never see a TLOU theme park attraction ever again. Nor a Weeknd, Stranger Things, Trick R Treat, Billie Eilish, Killer Klowns from Outer Space, House of 1000 Corpses, Freaky attraction. Big IP or Niche, theme park attractions are incredibly difficult to make. If you're a fan of a niche property, you'd be hardpressed to ever get any kind of representation through the medium of themed attractions. The Last of Us isn't gonna get the expansion plot in Epic Universe, HHN is as much as that IP is ever gonna get, and that attraction is on a ticking clock to extinction.

So I'll be honest, I don't really want much to change in terms of ticketing. I certainly hope Universal can find a way to spread crowds out in a better way, I hope September 2024 is better than this years', but I would really hate a forced "Maximum amount of Days" type system. Cause it means that I wouldn't be able to enjoy HHN nearly as fully as I can and have been able to for years. I don't go for clout, obsess over scare actors (who are real people at their workplace and should not be harassed, check your parasocial bonds!), and I'm pretty sure I've bumped into a few of you in conversation and kept my mouth shut (respectfully haha!). I wait in the same amount of 55min lines as everyone else. I just love this event and the good work they do, and I'd really rather not be forced into setting reservations for a limited 10 nights across what ends up being the most hectic and consistently the most up-in-the-air two months of every year for me, if I can help it yknow! HHN is really special, it's no wonder it's so popular. But I think there have been quite a few solutions outside of the nuclear reservation or pick-a-day type systems that would work just as well, if not better than the latter.
 
I just realized a point of confusion in this ongoing discussion. People keep saying Universal needs to “increase capacity.” But its capacity is fine as is. The event supports roughly 45-50k people a night. The problem that actually needs to be addressed is relieving congestion. Because those are two different challenges but congestion is what actually affects the guest experience.

And sure, capacity is related to congestion, but one is a spatial problem while the other is numerical.
The problem is that I can't really think of any "empty" areas of the park that could be filled with something to entice guests. The Death Eaters should have helped with that this year (Diagon was packed everytime we went in), but it didn't seem to help. I do like Brian's idea of opening up the area in front of BMG as a food/bar area.

I know we've said adding a house isn't the solution, but I imagine if they did that without adding much to the actual capacity of people they let in, that would help?

And I would LOVE to see them do Halloween overlays of attractions, but I think it'd be difficult for a lot of them. House lines filter through Fallon and ET, Gringotts is (maybe) off limits, Disney likely wouldn't cooperate for Treehouse of Horror, and Mummy already has long waits during the event.

Also - one more point I'd like to bring up as a non-local, reservations wouldn't really bother me at all.
 
I just realized a point of confusion in this ongoing discussion. People keep saying Universal needs to “increase capacity.” But its capacity is fine as is. The event supports roughly 45-50k people a night. The problem that actually needs to be addressed is relieving congestion. Because those are two different challenges but congestion is what actually affects the guest experience.

And sure, capacity is related to congestion, but one is a spatial problem while the other is numerical.
This is what I was referring to earlier on when I went on my "increasing capacity" talk early on, Universal artificially congesting areas of the park.

I didn't mean to increase park capacity (they rarely even get close to the actual number) in terms of people who can physically be inside, I meant increasing actual attraction/show capacity. HHN is too congested in certain areas while underutilizing other areas. They need to rethink house locations to prevent massive crowds from forming (I can understand Kidzone disruptions this year, but NY needs a fix), they need to bring back queue stanchions for food booths, stop placing props/booths that bottleneck guests, etc.

There is no need to have that Chucky booth allow maybe 2 guests to walk by it at the same time. They keep having to stick a TM out at the Surfer Boy booth to keep the line from stretching into the street... why did they get rid of queue stanchions?

As suggested before, a very simple but effective overlay could be Mummy in pitch blackness.
If you want that to be a draw/capacity improvement, the tribute store has to move locations to increase queue capacity. Queue right now is only able to accommodate 30ish minutes or so worth of queue (yes, Universal lies/exaggerates waits so they don't have the queue stretching out into the street)

The problem is that I can't really think of any "empty" areas of the park that could be filled with something to entice guests. The Death Eaters should have helped with that this year (Diagon was packed everytime we went in), but it didn't seem to help. I do like Brian's idea of opening up the area in front of BMG as a food/bar area.

I know we've said adding a house isn't the solution, but I imagine if they did that without adding much to the actual capacity of people they let in, that would help?

And I would LOVE to see them do Halloween overlays of attractions, but I think it'd be difficult for a lot of them. House lines filter through Fallon and ET, Gringotts is (maybe) off limits, Disney likely wouldn't cooperate for Treehouse of Horror, and Mummy already has long waits during the event.

Also - one more point I'd like to bring up as a non-local, reservations wouldn't really bother me at all.
Diagon is no longer the quiet rest stop for the event, just as busy as during the day, the event just got very crowded this year and it didn't appear to help, but it really did.

The Hollywood/Mels/Transformers area of the park is severely underutilized, getting rid of the queue in front of Music Plaza is a significant improvement just to allow people to rest on the turf (look at how many people are seated at the curb in front of Minion Cafe/Fallon).

Put a sideshow for the NY scare zone in the Blues Brothers show area to entice some crowds to move there or a stage with smaller acts that fit the theme. They often put a stage there during Rock the Universe, so they can try with HHN.
 
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I do think it's funny that everyone was bemoaning the loss of "quiet spaces" before this year's event, and now the call is "Fill up every available inch of space in the park with stuff!"

There are still quiet spaces in the park, just go to that food truck over by Springfield with the Witches' Stew, nobody is there lol
 
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Good points on the on site tourists. They really seem to be the odd man out during HHN. They're spending the big bucks, but are kind of an afterthought with the HHN ticketing, plus their use of the theme parks is limited by HHN, especially when they do the IOA party early night closing. And there's no doubt that on site tourists are the highest spending per guest category. I always thought that back when we were staying on site in September and October. Yeah, I think that Universal treats them secondary, compared to locals, and as you said, it's a remnant of the Universal dark ages. It's not many years ago that Universal only had about 2000+ hotel rooms on site. Now it's around 8 or 9 thousand. It's a different world......Even the overall ticketing reflects that. Locals get much better ticket and hotel deals than out of state U.S. tourists. Although it seems the International visitors get good specials also through their resort companies.
They could always offer a tourist-only ticket. It’s not unprecedented…right now, you can buy a multi-day Express Pass that doesn’t otherwise exist unless you’re purchasing it as part of an official UO vacation package. You want guaranteed HHN admission every night of your stay? Just call UO direct and book an on-site hotel!

This resolves the potential problem of removing RoF from single-week visitors, plus I could definitely see this being attractive to UO.
 
A Halloween overlay of ET would be aces. Something silly and tongue in cheek. Throw Halloween masks on all the animatronics. Play a different song when you get to the Green Planet.

It would be dumb but still be daytime friendly while fitting the party vibe of current HHN.

And throw scareactors in the queue.

EDIT TO ADD - Make it even more fun and hide a slasher character throughout the ride, but it’s only lit up for HHN.

or also put 2 or 3 actors in the ride by the end

I appreciated the energy and talent of the performers. However, “earnest” is a great way to describe it. I’m not a fan. It feels out of place to me especially in the absence of a lagoon show and the empty scare zones. The overall atmosphere of the event is simply not what it was pre covid. Perhaps this is something universal likes IDK.

I agree a comedy show would be fantastic or at least something that fits a little more within the spooky season.

but whats the problem with this show to feel out of place?
(about the change of atmosphere, the music around the park is the reason, around 5 years ago this event stopped feeling like a dark / creepy "horror movie" haunted event, and now it always feels like a bright - horror dance club. )
the nightmare fire show definitely shows this
 
Saying Diagon hasn't helped much for crowds this year feels like pilots in early WW2 saying the wings of planes needed more armor because they came back with the most bulletholes. Diagon has helped a ton, considering that it is always crowded in an even more crowded park. Could you imagine this year if that section was closed off entirely? Those lines wouldn't be getting shorter.

Meet & Greets are legitimately underutilized. Using the HMUS Theatre as a rotating M&G spot could work imo better than Halloween-y HMU in terms of capacity imo.

Maybe what the event really needs is for USF to recieve some more legitimate expansion. I do believe Kidzone next year will help out a good deal. Maybe if Simpsons and some back of house locations were taken out in favor of a more sprawling land with a people-eater ride, room for a new non-CP/SF style zone, and some open space to sit down, shop, or eat, it would help as much as Diagon has?

How feasible is it to expand Central Park into the surrounding areas a la the Fastpass+ Castle viewing areas? I know the broadcast center is right there, and the lagoon viewing on the other side of that. Is the NBC Center an important enough location to not be moved somewhere else in the park to aid their most profitable event year after year?