No Water from Freestyle Machines

[s8film40]

Waiters don't like serving water because their tips are based off the total of the check. It takes them just as much effort to serve water as it does a soda, but it doesn't add to the amount that you're charged and thus doesn't factor in to their tip if they're tipped a set percentage of the check.

Most waiters aren't thinking about the $.50 difference in the total tip that a drink adds they're assuming that a person ordering a water is more likely to tip less than 15% or nothing at all. There are certainly people who justify this kind of thinking. As someone who enjoys having water I just hate that this stigma exists. Ordering water at a restuarant often can result in getting poorer service in anticipation of you not tipping as well.

Additionally, if a park offers you free water at a stand as opposed to just allowing you to fill up at a water fountain, they're not making revenue off of you. They're providing labor to provide you with something that doesn't make them money. Ultimately, you have 6 fewer places to fill up in each park now than you did over the past two years, but just as many as you did before the freestyle machines were installed.

Yeah the point is they are paying more to give you free water this way.

Also completely unrelated to this discussion but where is everyone getting this Freestyle has only been around for 2 years thing? It's not quite that new.

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

Has this attraction or any other always been sponsored by water or is this something new.

Perhaps there's more to this story than Universal and Coke. Maybe they got some pressure from a sponsor?

It's always been sponsored, first by Zephryhills now Nestle

 

[IzzyB]

Well Disney doesn't have the Freestyle machines so you can directly compare them. The only thing you can say for certain is that everywhere Disney offers drinks they also offer water, Universal can longer say that.

The point is they're pushing people to drink soda only. If someone purchases a mug and then after a few sodas decides they want water instead they'll find that option missing and will likely just pick another soda.

I don't agree with all the health advocates claiming soda sizes should be limited and other stuff like that. I have no doubt though given enough time they'll pick up on this far more valid complaint and exploit it for all its worth.

Actually this is not true. All Disney owned places give out free water. If they are leased and not owned by Disney they are not required to give free water. I know this from my travels of getting hot water, the pastry/coffee carts all over Disney are not owned by Disney and will not give free water.

Also, I believe that they will get it programmed so that if you bought the cup, you can get water.

I really think everyone is taking this to the extreme. It is a benefit you have had for 2 years and now they are taking it away because it is too costly and is making the lines longer. If the cart lines weren't long 2 years ago because of getting free water, they still won't be today.

 

[anihilnation]

The programming thing makes little sense, since they just reprogrammed it to not have water, so why would they not have just reprogrammed it to have water just not free?

 

[IzzyB]

The programming thing makes little sense, since they just reprogrammed it to not have water, so why would they not have just reprogrammed it to have water just not free?

As a computer programmer this makes total sense to me. Universal has certain options they can do on each of their machines. They can program different drinks and things like that. However, they can not do the core programming of the actual program. This is done by Coke and Coke has not allowed the option for water to be behind the paid screen. So Universal can not turn it on under the paid screen since Coke did not change the core program to do this.

 

[anihilnation]

As a computer programmer this makes total sense to me. Universal has certain options they can do on each of their machines. They can program different drinks and things like that. However, they can not do the core programming of the actual program. This is done by Coke and Coke has not allowed the option for water to be behind the paid screen. So Universal can not turn it on under the paid screen since Coke did not change the core program to do this.

I think it might always be coke who does the maintanance\programming, a few times I have seen them work on the machines, refill etc., and it is always someone in a coke uniform, albeit with a universal badge as well I think.

 

[s8film40]

Actually this is not true. All Disney owned places give out free water. If they are leased and not owned by Disney they are not required to give free water. I know this from my travels of getting hot water, the pastry/coffee carts all over Disney are not owned by Disney and will not give free water.

Also, I believe that they will get it programmed so that if you bought the cup, you can get water.

I really think everyone is taking this to the extreme. It is a benefit you have had for 2 years and now they are taking it away because it is too costly and is making the lines longer. If the cart lines weren't long 2 years ago because of getting free water, they still won't be today.

I've been with friends who have gotten free water from the Joffreys stands. I could be mistaken but I do believe they also sell bottled water.

I agree there is some overreaction going on. Personally for me I'm a little disappointed that Universal would stoop to this level to be cheap. If people want water just give it to them. I have no doubt the water will be back at some point soon. I think someone just misjudged the way the public would react to this.

 

[IzzyB]

I think it might always be coke who does the maintanance\programming, a few times I have seen them work on the machines, refill etc., and it is always someone in a coke uniform, albeit with a universal badge as well I think.

It still could be different departments that program in the options vs. turning options on and off. So as a programmer I can believe they haven't "programmed" this option. Because it would require core changes to the program.

Several times tried to get free water at Joffrey's and was told no, you have to go to a Disney owned place. Maybe they changed their policy in the last 3 years as that is the last time I checked, but it used to be a no.

 

[MrRoamer]

It still could be different departments that program in the options vs. turning options on and off. So as a programmer I can believe they haven't "programmed" this option. Because it would require core changes to the program.

Several times tried to get free water at Joffrey's and was told no, you have to go to a Disney owned place. Maybe they changed their policy in the last 3 years as that is the last time I checked, but it used to be a no.

As another developer, I can also totally seeing this getting through your test cases. Water is free so that isn't behind the paywall it is its own option. Once you get behind the paywall you have already "charged" so you display the free selections.

I also agree that this is being overblown a bit (by myself included). Those are all issues that exist but aren't because of this free water thing. We are just going back to the way it used to be a couple of years ago. It was nice while it lasted, and I still think it is kind of a shady move, but whatevs. My main rant earlier was more because of frustration in the situation and saw it as an insulting way to reduce costs/increase profits.

 

[IzzyB]

As another developer, I can also totally seeing this getting through your test cases. Water is free so that isn't behind the paywall it is its own option. Once you get behind the paywall you have already "charged" so you display the free selections.

I also agree that this is being overblown a bit (by myself included). Those are all issues that exist but aren't because of this free water thing. We are just going back to the way it used to be a couple of years ago. It was nice while it lasted, and I still think it is kind of a shady move, but whatevs. My main rant earlier was more because of frustration in the situation and saw it as an insulting way to reduce costs/increase profits.

I agree in some ways it is a pretty crappy move. It shows that Universal is a company looking to make as much money as they can. It also seems Universal has taken away things while raising prices a ton this year for AP holders. So that is even a harder hit. But I can also see Universal's side of this which is that it is costing them a good bit of money to give out this free water. I am pretty neutral on this one. I just carry in a ton of water when I go to the parks. We have 4 refillable bottles that we pack with ice and water and if we are going to be there longer we also freeze some new bottles of water. When my friend was in ton we brought in about 18 bottles of water every day to all the parks. I am happy that Universal no longer prevents outside drinks from coming in. That was a shady move when they did that stuff.

Wanted to add that I think this is hitting people hard because for years Universal has been this awesome value and has done all these awesome things. So it looked like they weren't a money grabbing company. But now that attendance is up and they have built their brand they are doing things that shows really all along just like Disney they are a money grabbing company. This is no shock to me. I knew all along they were out to make the most money they could. They just needed a solid base before they could do a lot of other stuff.

 

[anihilnation]

It still could be different departments that program in the options vs. turning options on and off. So as a programmer I can believe they haven't "programmed" this option. Because it would require core changes to the program.

Several times tried to get free water at Joffrey's and was told no, you have to go to a Disney owned place. Maybe they changed their policy in the last 3 years as that is the last time I checked, but it used to be a no.

Does seem plausible actually, that the core programming explicitly forbids just water as a pay option.

 

[s8film40]

Wanted to add that I think this is hitting people hard because for years Universal has been this awesome value and has done all these awesome things. So it looked like they weren't a money grabbing company. But now that attendance is up and they have built their brand they are doing things that shows really all along just like Disney they are a money grabbing company. This is no shock to me. I knew all along they were out to make the most money they could. They just needed a solid base before they could do a lot of other stuff.

I think for me it's a little more than just a money grabbing corporate mentality. It's a small sign that Universal is making some of the same mistakes Disney has made. If you truly want to make money you don't focus on taking away the little things to make marginal increases in revenue. You instead focus on pouring money into the things that are going to make big differences. This is what Universal has been doing for the past several years and I welcome this mentality and am happy to support it financially. Something like removing water from the Freestyle machines is truly a negative no matter how you look at it. I have to wonder if the time thought and energy put into taking something away couldn't have been better used coming up with a new way for us to happily spend more money. It honestly feels like Universal might have gotten a F&B manager from Disney with this kind of short sighted thinking. My hope is they will learn from this mistake.

 

[s8film40]

Does seem plausible actually, that the core programming explicitly forbids just water as a pay option.

Water has always been very seperate in the menu. It's a blue dot to the left of all the choices wether you had an activated cup of not.

 

[IzzyB]

I think for me it's a little more than just a money grabbing corporate mentality. It's a small sign that Universal is making some of the same mistakes Disney has made. If you truly want to make money you don't focus on taking away the little things to make marginal increases in revenue. You instead focus on pouring money into the things that are going to make big differences. This is what Universal has been doing for the past several years and I welcome this mentality and am happy to support it financially. Something like removing water from the Freestyle machines is truly a negative no matter how you look at it. I have to wonder if the time thought and energy put into taking something away couldn't have been better used coming up with a new way for us to happily spend more money. It honestly feels like Universal might have gotten a F&B manager from Disney with this kind of short sighted thinking. My hope is they will learn from this mistake.

I don't see Universal making Disney mistakes. Disney's problem is the sunk a ton of money into ventures that so far have not panned out for them (Paris, Shanghai, and MM+) instead of putting money into new rides at their current parks. The cost cutting measures happen at most companies whether they are doing really well or really bad. It is all that grab as much money as you can. But those small cuts Disney is doing didn't hurt them or put them where they are today. It is the fact that they used the new rides for WDW elsewhere which has proved to be costly for them. Because now Universal is kicking their butt when it comes to new rides and their attendance is dropping. Universal would have to stop building things to be WDW and they are obviously not doing that.

 

[graspthesun]

Water has always been very seperate in the menu. It's a blue dot to the left of all the choices wether you had an activated cup of not.

Exactly. Essentially the machine runs two programs:

Water - ON/OFF
Beverages - ACTIVE/INACTIVE

Because Water is not a Beverage, it can either be ON or OFF. It cannot be ACTIVE or INACTIVE. Coca-Cola would have to reprogram the machine to make Water a Beverage in order to reactivate Water for paying guests.

 

[USO92]

 

[s8film40]

I don't see Universal making Disney mistakes. Disney's problem is the sunk a ton of money into ventures that so far have not panned out for them (Paris, Shanghai, and MM+) instead of putting money into new rides at their current parks. The cost cutting measures happen at most companies whether they are doing really well or really bad. It is all that grab as much money as you can. But those small cuts Disney is doing didn't hurt them or put them where they are today. It is the fact that they used the new rides for WDW elsewhere which has proved to be costly for them. Because now Universal is kicking their butt when it comes to new rides and their attendance is dropping. Universal would have to stop building things to be WDW and they are obviously not doing that.

I've followed Disney very closely for a long time. They've been continuing a chain of little decisions very similar to things like removing free water for many years now. I wasn't really referring to the big things like what they chose to invest in but rather the small details of how they run a business. No one wants to go to the restaurant that has a key for the bathroom or charges you for water, businesses like that in turn have to then look to other ways to squeeze money out since their brilliant idea to save money backfired. It's a vicious cycle and Disney has been in it a while. They're constantly finding new ways to sneak in little charges hear and there. I once talked with someone who worked with Dick Nunis and she said he would always immediately reject any idea that in his words was "nickel & diming" the guests. That mentality showed through at Disney for a very long time. It however created a lot of opportunities for future executives to show how much money they could save. The end result is you diminish the final product. The same is true here. Free water is just one small thing but if they continue to make little decision like that eventually people will feel like they are continuously being ripped off by Universal. You want people to visit and open they're wallets willingly, this is something casinos in Las Vegas learned long ago give people free things and they will only spend more money.

 

[Hockeyman55]

This thread has accomplished one thing for sure and that's making me thirsty.

 

[Mad Dog]

This thread has accomplished one thing for sure and that's making me thirsty.

Yep, sounds like a good time for a double of Jim Beam & water. Heh, where's my drinking partners Disneyhead & UK Trigg when you need them?

 

[anihilnation]

There is no more water, so just straight up lol