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Theatrical Future/PVOD Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter quinnmac000
  • Start date Start date Apr 28, 2020
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Jerroddragon

Jerroddragon

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My question is can the genie be put back into the bottle

People wanted to get out after Covid and now we are seeing movies and travel down

Other factors include streaming movies months if not weeks after a film is out, quality of many major films are fine but nothing you must see, too many movies out at once and most people have a backlog of movies/tv shows to watch.
 
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TheGentTrent

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JungleSkip said:
I think it has to do more with sustained poor quality of big IP tent poles. The MCU has stunk since Endgame, and the constant barrage of Disney+ shows burns people out even more. The DCEU always stunk. Indiana Jones’s primary audience is over 50, and the movie is mediocre at best.

People are just sick of paying out the nose for junk, and studios are spending more money on it than ever, like you said.
Click to expand...
This. There’s a reason that Puss in Boots 2 performed well above expectations while Ruby Gilman is already one of DreamWorks’s biggest bombs ever. One was a great movie that lived on through word of mouth while the other just looked like a standard and forgettable kids flick.
 
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Bort

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JungleSkip said:
I went to packed showings of Elemental and Asteroid City this weekend. The former had some of the worst marketing I’ve ever seen. I went because it was the only thing running for my daughter, and wasn’t too excited. But it was great! And Asteroid City was a real life movie for adults, not adult fanboys, something we don’t see enough of.
Click to expand...
I think you're totally right about what you said in the rest of your post, but on an unrelated note, can you explain what I was missing with Asteroid City? I was lost almost the entire time and even trying to think through it post-viewing, I've barely scratched the surface of it making sense.
 
Cup_Of_Coffee

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So, studios need to re-invigorate themselves and their storytelling. I’m down for that, and would get me back to the theatre.
 
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Nick

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Jamesh22 said:
I echo some of the other comments - there just isn't much to draw people out to the theater at the moment. Superhero fatigue has definitely hit so a comic book movie needs to be a 'must see' in order to make serious money now, and most event pics just aren't event worthy.

Budgets are insane and always have been at Disney and to a certain extent at WB too.

Low/mid level budgets and more range in content might help. As would effective advertising campaigns that build interest/intrigue and don't ruin the entire movie. Saw one for Gran Turismo the other day and I now don't need to see the movie.
Click to expand...
I honestly don’t think it’s “superhero fatigue”. I don’t think that’s something that exists. Just look at how GotG 3 and AtSV are doing in the past 2 months.

What we are seeing is just a bunch of BAD superhero movies coming out with a short period of time not only this year but this is going back to Morbius, Venom 2, Thor 4, Eternals, WW84 and also quite a few mediocre ones (Black Widow, Wakanda Forever, Multiverse of Madness).

Audiences are sick of getting hyped for films and spend money on them only to be severely let down when they can just wait a few months to see them on streaming.
 
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Jerroddragon

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Nick said:
I honestly don’t think it’s “superhero fatigue”. I don’t think that’s something that exists. Just look at how GotG 3 and AtSV are doing in the past 2 months.

What we are seeing is just a bunch of BAD superhero movies coming out with a short period of time not only this year but this is going back to Morbius, Venom 2, Thor 4, Eternals, WW84 and also quite a few mediocre ones (Black Widow, Wakanda Forever, Multiverse of Madness).

Audiences are sick of getting hyped for films and spend money on them only to be severely let down when they can just wait a few months to see them on streaming.
Click to expand...
Agreed

It's the same BS when people say animated or 2d films don't sell. More like you aren't making films people want to see and have to find any reason besides looking at your company and make better stories

Though, GA are very weird. They will see Avatar 2 which story wise to me is as strong as Antman 2.....but people saw it. The Mario Movie is good but Sonic 2 was a more entertaining film but didn't matter and ohhh yeah Jurassic World came out last year and made bank and that movie suckedddddd

So it's really hard for me to understand what makes people see movies because quality isn't always what makes you money, on the other hand we have Puss in boots 2 which like HTTYD (the first film also didn't start well in the box office) but grew because of word of month.
 
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Nick

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Jerroddragon said:
Agreed

It's the same BS when people say animated or 2d films don't sell. More like you aren't making films people want to see and have to find any reason besides looking at your company and make better stories

Though, GA are very weird. They will see Avatar 2 which story wise to me is as strong as Antman 2.....but people saw it. The Mario Movie is good but Sonic 2 was a more entertaining film but didn't matter and ohhh yeah Jurassic World came out last year and made bank and that movie suckedddddd

So it's really hard for me to understand what makes people see movies because quality isn't always what makes you money, on the other hand we have Puss in boots 2 which like HTTYD (the first film also didn't start well in the box office) but grew because of word of month.
Click to expand...
The allure of the 3D experience that is attached to the Avatar brand is very real. My grandparents hadn’t been to the movie in decades. They were willing to see Avatar based on hearing people that they go to church with rave that it’s “like magic”.
 
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quinnmac000

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TheGentTrent said:
This. There’s a reason that Puss in Boots 2 performed well above expectations while Ruby Gilman is already one of DreamWorks’s biggest bombs ever. One was a great movie that lived on through word of mouth while the other just looked like a standard and forgettable kids flick.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the correct answer, we are in a weird time where everything is going back to being boxed in certain ways. Female lead animated IP content not princess related have underperformed at the box office since COVID and then blow up on streaming. Using Dreamworks as an example...Spirit Untamed was a show on netflix that did really really really well on streaming so the Dreamworks Animation CEO Margie Cohn was like lets put a film in production for this film because its clear based on streaming rates, the movie should do well. With an A cinemascore, the film bombed. However, the film did great via streaming.

Encanto is another example....while the pandemic was a consideration, it dominated streaming rather than box office and people came out for SING 2 in theatres. I bet if Turning Red did get a theatrical release we would see similar results.

I think we will see that as well with Ruby Gillman.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerroddragon said:
Agreed

It's the same BS when people say animated or 2d films don't sell. More like you aren't making films people want to see and have to find any reason besides looking at your company and make better stories

Though, GA are very weird. They will see Avatar 2 which story wise to me is as strong as Antman 2.....but people saw it. The Mario Movie is good but Sonic 2 was a more entertaining film but didn't matter and ohhh yeah Jurassic World came out last year and made bank and that movie suckedddddd

So it's really hard for me to understand what makes people see movies because quality isn't always what makes you money, on the other hand we have Puss in boots 2 which like HTTYD (the first film also didn't start well in the box office) but grew because of word of month.
Click to expand...
Interest and taste is subjective not objective. There are cultural, political, and societal impacts that go into what films are considered "good" and "bad" and you are simplifying something that is extremely complex in many ways. Why are some films popular in the states but very unpopular abroad? Why do some films make so much money overseas yet domestically flop? The GA acts exactly how the GA is supposed to react.

Avatar 2 didn't need to have a good story...no one enjoyed the first one really for the story. They enjoy the visual spectacle on their screen of something that was driven by pure passion. No one after seeing the first film were talking about how great the writing Avatar had. They were talking about how beautiful and amazing it looked.

People wonder why Illumination films do so well...its not because they are safe because many studios are putting out safe films. Illumination is like cocomelon, they use a formula that they know will delight people's brain via visual gags. There are reasons why kids become obsessive with Cocomelon and that's tied to the visual cues they use and how they cut and edit material. This same principle was applied in the Super Mario Movie, they are so many things going on the scene in the background of 75% of the film that is a positive sensory overload. Illumination does something similar with the minions but minions do well because it harks back to a time via three stooges, classic disney cartoons back in the 1920s and 30s, and looney tunes where you can understand very easily without understanding a word of what they are saying.

WOM does help a film but only if a film already fits the cultural and societal standards set by society. How many people complain and negatively talk about films they never watched especially nowadays?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The real issue these days is not the quality or the medium or the shorter box office.

The big issue is television. Television has replaced film. More money goes to television these days than film, People talk more about television shows than film. When people got to Netflix to rewatch something, it will more likely be a television show than a movie. Film were the place to watch things with huge budgets and spectacles you couldn't really get via tv shows. But nowadays, TV shows are giving the same level of quality and effort as film making people more willing to spend time watching a television show than a movie. Additionally with television due to the episodic nature, individuals are more likely to rush to finish a television show than a movie.

Secondary issues, thanks to streaming, film in general doesn't get the same boost it did when there was cable/local tv. Because you had to rent a film etc and rental fees were expensive for films not everyone got to go watch movies like we do now with Netflix but because of that, when films were in theatre more people were willing to go see it because it wasn't known how long it was until you could buy it on DVD, Blu Ray, or initial streaming services. Then when the film was being shown on tv, the networks and the studios would make a big deal about it which then rejuvenated the interest in the franchise....(Harry Potter Marathons on ABC Family for example really did a big boost as well as those who lived the 80s and 90s where ABC/NBC would have their movie day where they would show one of their films). Because there is a lack of urgency or limited time, no one really rushes to see a film outside of major fans.
 
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Nick

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TheGentTrent said:
This. There’s a reason that Puss in Boots 2 performed well above expectations while Ruby Gilman is already one of DreamWorks’s biggest bombs ever. One was a great movie that lived on through word of mouth while the other just looked like a standard and forgettable kids flick.
Click to expand...
It didn’t help either that the trailer guy voice literally sounded like he was saying “Ruby Gilman, Teenage Crackhead”, although granted that’s probably a movie I would’ve *definitely* went to see :lol:
 
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queenmetroid

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Nick said:
It didn’t help either that the trailer guy voice literally sounded like he was saying “Ruby Gilman, Teenage Crackhead”, although granted that’s probably a movie I would’ve *definitely* went to see :lol:
Click to expand...
From the Cocaine Bear cinematic universe comes an exciting and charming children's tale about being true to yourself and substance abuse...
 
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tielo

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I'm looking forward to Oppenheimer and Dune 2, it are the only movies I want to watch in cinema.
 
Andysol

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tielo said:
I'm looking forward to Oppenheimer and Dune 2, it are the only movies I want to watch in cinema.
Click to expand...
Agreed. And MI:7

Nick said:
The allure of the 3D experience that is attached to the Avatar brand is very real. My grandparents hadn’t been to the movie in decades. They were willing to see Avatar based on hearing people that they go to church with rave that it’s “like magic”.
Click to expand...
Say what you will about the story but the tech was amazing and it really was “like magic”

I don’t regret watching that in 3D one bit. The last movie I saw in 3D? The original.

It’s night and day when a large budget movie is created specifically for 3D (Avatar). And when it isn’t (Ant man or name any other super hero movie).

So crapping on the movie’s story is fine, but there is a reason people went to the movies to see it- because the experience was tailor made for it.
Avatar on the small screen is just another meh movie vs a jaw dropping experience on the big.
 
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Jerroddragon

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Andysol said:
Agreed. And MI:7


Say what you will about the story but the tech was amazing and it really was “like magic”

I don’t regret watching that in 3D one bit. The last movie I saw in 3D? The original.

It’s night and day when a large budget movie is created specifically for 3D (Avatar). And when it isn’t (Ant man or name any other super hero movie).

So crapping on the movie’s story is fine, but there is a reason people went to the movies to see it- because the experience was tailor made for it.
Avatar on the small screen is just another meh movie vs a jaw dropping experience on the big.
Click to expand...
To each their own

But all films are better on the big screen, I just don't understand people online crapping on DC/Marvel films and then being like I saw Avatar and liked it

So lets pretend Black Adam had the same script but the best CGI like avatar would that really make it a better film? I just don't get why Avatar gets to be a film with a uninspired story but it has good CGI so it gets a pass.
Toy Story 1 has wayyyyy worst animation then Toy Story 4 in no way is Toy Story 4 the better film
 
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Andysol

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Jerroddragon said:
To each their own

But all films are better on the big screen, I just don't understand people online crapping on DC/Marvel films and then being like I saw Avatar and liked it

So lets pretend Black Adam had the same script but the best CGI like avatar would that really make it a better film? I just don't get why Avatar gets to be a film with a uninspired story but it has good CGI so it gets a pass.
Toy Story 1 has wayyyyy worst animation then Toy Story 4 in no way is Toy Story 4 the better film
Click to expand...
Because you’re conflating a better film with experience.

There are better coasters than many themed coasters. But comparable themed coasters with themed queues are a significantly better experience.
 
Jerroddragon

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Andysol said:
Because you’re conflating a better film with experience.

There are better coasters than many themed coasters. But comparable themed coasters with themed queues are a significantly better experience.
Click to expand...
So a film can have a bad script as long as it's an "experience"

I really don't understand that, your watching a film at home 99 percent of the time. So Avatar in your mind is now just a meh film because you can't watch it in theaters?
 
Andysol

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Jerroddragon said:
So a film can have a bad script as long as it's an "experience"

I really don't understand that, you’re watching a film at home 99 percent of the time. So Avatar in your mind is now just a meh film because you can't watch it in theaters?
Click to expand...
Bad? No. A bad script will kill any film regardless.
Avatar 1 or 2 is by no means bad. It was always a meh film, IMO. Meh =/= bad.

Let’s not pretend that the original transformers was some amazing thing. Or pacific rim. They’re fun popcorn flicks with groundbreaking tech for the time.
But they’re fun in the theater or a home theater because they’re big and loud and aren’t terrible films, just meh.
The recent marvel movies have basically been that. Same with black adam.

But avatar was MADE for 3D. And you cannot get the experience of that at home (though I do remember the 3D TV craze after avatar one).

So yes, a movie that was made specifically for a 3D theater on as big of a screen as possible is going to have a major drop when in 2D at home. Or (and this cant be understated) even 2D at the theater.
Any superhero or action movie can or cannot be 3D. It barely changes the film experience regardless.

But again, Avatar was made specifically for the entertainment aspect with a specific theater-only element (3D). The experience of that was baked into the cake when creating it. And why people “never bet against Cameron” is that he’s one of the few people who think about the experience of you sitting in that specific theater seat vs most who think about you watching and experiencing their film on its merit.
 
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Andysol said:
Agreed. And MI:7


Say what you will about the story but the tech was amazing and it really was “like magic”

I don’t regret watching that in 3D one bit. The last movie I saw in 3D? The original.

It’s night and day when a large budget movie is created specifically for 3D (Avatar). And when it isn’t (Ant man or name any other super hero movie).

So crapping on the movie’s story is fine, but there is a reason people went to the movies to see it- because the experience was tailor made for it.
Avatar on the small screen is just another meh movie vs a jaw dropping experience on the big.
Click to expand...
It's not the same in any way, but I did watch TWOW on Disney+ and actually highly enjoyed it still. It's a better movie than the original imo and tbh I like both quite a bit but TWOW has some genuine world building, but also stands on it's own. Kiri also adds a pretty interesting character.

Jerroddragon said:
So lets pretend Black Adam had the same script but the best CGI like avatar would that really make it a better film? I just don't get why Avatar gets to be a film with a uninspired story but it has good CGI so it gets a pass.
Toy Story 1 has wayyyyy worst animation then Toy Story 4 in no way is Toy Story 4 the better film
Click to expand...
Avatar's script was quite a bit better than Black Adam, let's not get this twisted.
 
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Jerroddragon

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Nick said:
It's not the same in any way, but I did watch TWOW on Disney+ and actually highly enjoyed it still. It's a better movie than the original imo and tbh I like both quite a bit but TWOW has some genuine world building, but also stands on it's own. Kiri also adds a pretty interesting character.


Avatar's script was quite a bit better than Black Adam, let's not get this twisted.
Click to expand...
Avatar 1, is the normal.....savior film. It makes even less since because the Natives are better fighters but Jake gets to be the heros....because movie

The second film is to me a mess, they leave the tribe to then make it where 10s if not 100's of tribes have to suffer. What if the Bad guys just attacked the tree again to draw them back in?
To me it's a very meh film that only saving grace is the CGI, you can talk about the underwater scenes but all it's not like this film has an iconic scene, or any action scene that is 1/10 as exciting as T2 Motorcycle chase. The acting is fine for most people but also has some very just not well written characters as well

I'm not telling people not to like Avatar but I see little difference in Black Adam/Shazaam 2, Thor 4 they are all not perfect films that need better scripts. To me, I wish more people supported films that have scripts for films that should/need to be told over just more of the same.
 
Jerroddragon

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The best Weekend post Pandemic for AMC

deadline.com

Massive Box Office Weekend Sets Records For AMC Entertainment, Imax

AMC Entertainment set a new post-Covid record for global admissions revenue this past weekend with Barbie and Oppenheimer leading a charge that drew 7.8 million moviegoers to theaters. Warner Bros/…
deadline.com deadline.com
AMC Entertainment set a new post-Covid record for global admissions revenue this past weekend with Barbie and Oppenheimer leading a charge that drew 7.8 million moviegoers to theaters.

Warner Bros/Mattel’s Barbie racked up $162 million opening weekend. Universal’s Oppenheimer stands at $82.4 million for a $300 million weekend at the domestic box office.

For Imax, Christopher Nolan’s Oppenheimer delivered a $35 million debut on 740 screens worldwide, representing the biggest share ever of a film’s global opening weekend box office with 20% of total receipts.
Click to expand...
 
Nick

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4th biggest weekend EVER.
 
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