Westworld

[LieutLaww]

I think it is a very clever mechanic, as up till now you (think) you know who are the human players and who are hosts, but after the latest episode anyone and everyone inc Ford could potentially be a host. I think Theresa was under orders to get the data out of the park anyway she could without Ford knowing/noticing but as he seems to be at least 3 plays ahead of everyone he knew it was going to happen or had even planned for it ahead of time, the Host being made in the lab seems to point to that. How many people has Ford potentially replaced with hosts ? And has he used Bernard every time or does he have a number of "sleeper agents" available to him.

 

[rhino4evr]

The show will basically turn into BSG, with everyone wonder who is or isn't a cylon...I mean host.

Not that I'm complaining, but I've been down this road before...

 

[Andysol]

@rhino4evr I didn't like BSG. Couldn't get over the acting and pacing (I really disliked the lead girl- the "tough" one)- only made it 6 episodes in and checked out.

I am a bit caught between wondering if this is good story telling or just a truck load of cheap tricks. Anyone want to speak to this?

I think it's brilliant storytelling Teebin. If I had to guess what the showrunner is wanting to convey- is the question- what makes a human, human? As a religious person, it's an easy answer because we can say "A Soul". But I'm also not in denial that we aren't simply organic compounds that are intricately crafted either through a master creator or through a series of scientific miracles, if not impossibilities. So what makes a human, human? Self-awareness? Fear? Anger? Love? Dreams? Emotions? Cognitive decisions?
If they are simply robots, why do we feel sadness for Maive when she loses her friend. Why is she sad? Are those emotions not her own? Or is she just as programmed as we are through our life experiences and upbringing?



We also see Ford as this villain, and in a sense he is. But he's also doing all he can to protect his creation. "They are free. Free under my rule" is telling. The corporation is clearly much more interested in the limitless supply of slave labor and/or an army to fight any battle without a single human casualty (on your side). The IP is desired well beyond what a simple theme park can offer. And Ford is keeping his IP, and in turn, the hosts, "protected" under his rule. This show is very much like an onion with many layers and open to a lot of interpretation based on how you view it. This is one of the few shows that there can be more than one "correct" way to interpret something.

 

[Mr. EPCOT]

The show will basically turn into BSG, with everyone wonder who is or isn't a cylon...I mean host.

Not that I'm complaining, but I've been down this road before...

All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again.

 

[Teebin]

The show really has turned into Jurassic World, the end motives of the parent corp questionable.

 

[Cschaaf]

So far, I am enjoying it, but I'm not sure if it's good or bad storytelling. I think the end of the show will make that determination.

I loved the episode, I loved how they showed us the reveal, I love how it was acted, but I'm still not sure I love that storyline. They blew up any foundation that we thought we had - which, that part is okay - but they took away any chance of a solid foundation in the future. We may never be on solid ground again and that could be a big problem in the long run.

Spoiler: question about the 'space suits'

Why do some workers enter the park wearing the spaceman getup and others don't? Could that be some kind of host/human tip off?

Who have we seen without suits?

• Ford - of course, he's the god of this world so he can do whatever
• Bernard - host
• Theresa
• Stubbs
• Elsie
• Ford's survey crew - likely hosts, right?

Is it just the techs that will have physical contact with the hosts that wear the suits? Like the cleanup crews so they don't get a transmittable disease?

 

[Andysol]

Spoiler: question about the 'space suits'

Why do some workers enter the park wearing the spaceman getup and others don't? Could that be some kind of host/human tip off?

Who have we seen without suits?

• Ford - of course, he's the god of this world so he can do whatever
• Bernard - host
• Theresa
• Stubbs
• Elsie
• Ford's survey crew - likely hosts, right?

Is it just the techs that will have physical contact with the hosts that wear the suits? Like the cleanup crews so they don't get a transmittable disease?

Damn. That is a good question.

 

[epcyclopedia]

I think the cleanup crew just wears the hazmat suits as a matter of course. Extracting Clementine was just a hastily ordered clean up/removal.

But usually when they go in it's blood and guts everywhere. The techs who rebuild the bots wear 90% of the same uniform but not the face mask and lights.

Watch Dr Pimple Popper and you'll know the importance of always wearing a splash guard when dealing with bodily fluids.

Also the "religion" - it keeps them from being seen as human if they are seen or remembered. There's no way they don't know about or didn't program in the whole Shade mythology.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Finally caught up this week. I'm too floored to make any sensible contributions.

Props to those who predicted this revelation though; I'm more than willing to remind people that I publicly doubted it in no uncertain terms a few pages ago!

 

[Teebin]

I think the space suits are only for cleaning up those that have been blown apart... messy messy. Clem may have only been procedural.

 

[Teebin]

I think that Cschaaf is right. If they continue telling us that everyone is a bot then there is problem. Real humans are what gives the show gravitas.

Too, could they be sending mortality injured guests home as bots to smooth things over?

 

[Teebin]

Friggin Swan Lake. This show is Looney Toons.

 

[bob albert]

This show is dope and they do dope poop.

 

[sjago13]

I continue to be in awe of this show. So a few thoughts:

Spoiler

I have to think that Ford is printing Elsie in his lab. We now know Bernard killed her and he seems to want/need an army of loyal programmers to keep up his game.
I have to think the gunman in the church town was Arnold, he went mad and decided to mercy kill all the hosts or something like that.
They have subtlety confirmed that Bernard is an Arnold clone. When Dolores is with Will she remembers her talks with him in the basement but gets cut off by her flashback.
Dolores is the trickiest to track down which version of her we are seeing except when she is with Will. I think her contemporary self is the one riding the train solo and then her coming across the rebuilt town empty. She sees what looks like her corpse in the river, so I am curious if Will kills her after her freak out that ends the episode.
I also think at this point MiB being Will is a lock. He recognizes the Wyatt prisoner as the host that greets him when he first came to Westworld. I also feel that Will's storyline ends with him killing Logan, or at least being a party to the "incident" then returns and marries the sister, who lives in fear of him and ultimately kills herself.
I feel they have laid the breadcrumbs to have the 3 timeframes converge on this church town.

 

[epcyclopedia]

We know William starts in Sweetwater like everyone else - but did he do the whole bar/brothel deal?

I recall he met OG Clementine. Did he meet Maeve or was she present in any scene with him?

If so, he can't be the MIB because the MIB created Maeve as we know her at the brothel.

 

[sjago13]

We know William starts in Sweetwater like everyone else - but did he do the whole bar/brothel deal?

I recall he met OG Clementine. Did he meet Maeve or was she present in any scene with him?

If so, he can't be the MIB because the MIB created Maeve as we know her at the brothel.

When Will goes to the brothel Clem is the Madam and there is no Maeve. The image below shows Clem when Will rolls into town on the left and the right is the promo material that also shows Maeve in her previous role with the kid implying that Maeve should be in her old role when Will arrives.

 

[epcyclopedia]

And a thought... I always pondered if Delores was an integral part of Arnold's original plan for "the incident" and the visions of her death or seeing herself or being alone are flashbacks to the various failed attempts at her mission in the past. Ford said she has wandered from her loop before.

The dancer reacts to her and then she goes to kill herself - so she was there previously and apparently killed herself. The logic of why isn't explained, but maybe it was to reset herself to try again as the sudden shootout wasn't part of the plan of her mission.

Long story short, her "home" is a place she longs to go innately but she is programmed for the mission so where the two cross she wanders and is most confused. I think the mission is her reaching the maze.

But also, why the headshot suicide? Stubbs mentions she has been mostly rebuilt. That happens when they are damaged. Maybe she needed to have her head blown off to get the newer and bigger memory package and abilities?

Similarly, Maeve didn't seem to get past the step of her explosive spine prior to the army building and events she set in motion. So maybe being caught and cut apart to replace her spine is all part of the plan.

Major malfunction would lead to major rebuild, no?

 

[epcyclopedia]

When Will goes to the brothel Clem is the Madam and there is no Maeve. The image below shows Clem when Will rolls into town on the left and the right is the promo material that also shows Maeve in her previous role with the kid implying that Maeve should be in her old role when Will arrives.

Was Clem really Madame? I didn't get that impression, but I don't recall it specifically.

But assuming William is the MIB, where is Dolores in Maeve's timeline?

 

[sjago13]

Was Clem really Madame? I didn't get that impression, but I don't recall it specifically.

But assuming William is the MIB, where is Dolores in Maeve's timeline?

Like I stated above they have used a lot of quick cuts to obscure which version of Dolores we are seeing. I think we see quick glimpses of it here and there but they are keeping it hidden within her flashabacks as to not give away the Will/MiB timeframe split. I think current Dolores is whenever we see her alone, like on the train. In this episode when she comes across the town she sees it there but empty. That has to be current Dolores since when she is with Will it is still buried and the original town would have been populated. Since the end of episode 2 they have attempted to merge current Dolores with past Dolores that is Wills companion. She shoots the milk bandit in current time then shows up at Wills camp leading us to believe Will is contemporary. From that point forward they obscure that we are seeing at least 3 different versions of Dolores.

At the 39 min mark in ep 8 we see all 3 versions of Dolores in about a 1 min span.

 

[Teebin]

What was with the horned Hagrid guy?