Westworld

[sjago13]

What was with the horned Hagrid guy?

He is one of Wyatt's fanatics. Same ones from episode 3.

 

[Teebin]

I don't get this Wyatt slant at all... at all. How many times has he been displayed on screen?

 

[sjago13]

We have seen Wyatt a few times in flashbacks. He was Teddy's commander that then turned and killed everyone. He must be the final piece of the maze. I feel like Ford has rebuilt the town to allow for the maze to be finished since I don't even think he knows really what it is.

 

[SeventyOne]

Was Clem really Madame? I didn't get that impression, but I don't recall it specifically.

Yes. Early on when they replace Maeve, someone says make Clem the madame, she's done it before.

This is from the writer of The Prestige. The cats and top hats are all there in the opening scene, metaphorically speaking.

 

[Andysol]

I was watching this with a couple other people and one who hadn't seen it and the other people were trying to explain stuff as we were going along with a few pauses. Terrible way to watch. So I'll have to rewatch tonight.
But couple things I noticed

Spoiler

the two techs are most assuredly bots, right?

Additionally, Delores is wearing a dress when she's flashing back to the church town- not her pants and shirt. This is the first time I've seen her obviously in different clothes during flashbacks.

 

[Teebin]

We have seen Wyatt a few times in flashbacks.

Thanks, I thought that was him. I am just wracking my brain how he could be the key to anything interesting...

 

[sjago13]

Thanks, I thought that was him. I am just wracking my brain how he could be the key to anything interesting...

Spoiler

Want to go more insane? I watched or read something that said Dolores could be Wyatt. At first it sounded insane but if Dolores shot up the church town, how that went down mirrors the story of Wyatt so I could see it. I just don't get how they would resolve teddy seeing Wyatt as the above picture if it is meant to be Dolores. The other thing I could think of is that Wyatt is based off of Dolores mass killing, if she did do it. The town and Wyatt seem to be Ford recreating the situation that perhaps lead to the creation of the maze as to finally deal with whatever Arnold left behind.

 

[Teebin]

So maybe Wyatt pees sitting down? :saywhat:

If conjecture becomes any more wild I am going to have to check myself into a clinic.

 

[Teebin]

Can any of you help me out? Was that safe robbing scene backed by Swan Lake? I feel confident that it is Tchaikovsky.

Aah... never mind. It is called the Swan Lake Waltz. Ain't as stupid as my knee looks!



This was so well used in the ending of the movie Gorky Park with all the hopping sables.

 

[alomar]

Yes. Early on when they replace Maeve, someone says make Clem the madame, she's done it before.

This is from the writer of The Prestige. The cats and top hats are all there in the opening scene, metaphorically speaking.

I completely spaced that Jonathan Nolan wrote the Prestige, now it makes sense the confusion and misdirection in the show. Prestige was very good.
Shame Bowie passed, could use another Nicola Tesla!

 

[Cschaaf]

Another great episode.

My thoughts:

Spoiler

Bernard

• I think we now have to look forward to Bernard's revenge against Ford
• Based on his flashback, it looks like ford might be building an Elsie-bot.
• Then again, I was convinced we'd see a Theresa-bot

Stubbs

• He's on to Bernard's scent. An Elsie-bot might be the final puzzle piece that he needs

Maeve

• Maeve was awesome again. I wish we had a better intro to the story with her and Felix/Sylvester, but it's still pretty fun
• Why is Felix so deeply under her spell?
• "Sylvester, good luck" hahahaha
• Maeve's coldness towards new Clem was great
• She is quite skilled with a knife
• Thandi Newton's eyes are amazing
• Also, close your eyes and listen to her delivery. Then try the same with a few of the other characters - Dolores and Charlotte specifically. To me, there is a stark difference.

Dolores/William

• Still bored with the them
• Looks like Logan has turned on William. Why? Did Logan bring William to Westworld to 'legally' kick him around?

Theresa/Charlotte

• The way Ford handled the Theresa death was masterful. He let Charlotte know that he killed Theresa, but put her in a position where she can't call him on it
• It was an "I know that you know that I killed her, but there is nothing you can do about. "
• Charlotte was a bit better this week, but still is a weak point.
• Why are some hosts incinerated and others kept in storage?
• Was it just coincidence that Charlotte chose Abernathy?

Teddy/MiB

• Teddy is starting to remember and he hasn't heard the 'violent delights' speech
• More hints at multiple timeframes with MiB seeing the host that was the welcome host for William
• Lots of 30-years items, too

Spoiler

Want to go more insane? I watched or read something that said Dolores could be Wyatt. At first it sounded insane but if Dolores shot up the church town, how that went down mirrors the story of Wyatt so I could see it. I just don't get how they would resolve teddy seeing Wyatt as the above picture if it is meant to be Dolores. The other thing I could think of is that Wyatt is based off of Dolores mass killing, if she did do it. The town and Wyatt seem to be Ford recreating the situation that perhaps lead to the creation of the maze as to finally deal with whatever Arnold left behind.

Spoiler

I heard that one, too. There are certainly things that would make sense, but I don't think it all adds up.

I also heard a William = MiB and that Teddy is based on William. Again, some details add up, but overall, I think they will give us more characters than that.

 

[Teebin]

I completely spaced that Jonathan Nolan wrote the Prestige

I love that movie and I loved Bowie as Tesla. It bordered on insanity.

 

[epcyclopedia]

That Elsie got an off-screen death and was generally swept under the rug until the flashback makes me think she will come back as Elsie-bot. Plus, Ford is fond of making bots of programmers/behavior people.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Mixed opinions on this one -- as the need to elucidate some of the complexities for those who haven't worked them out yet becomes more time-critical, some of the revelations are being handled with a slight lack of subtlety imo. The dialogue in Dolores' breakdown scene was the worst culprit; there were a couple of others but I can't remember them right now. Also thought it was so patently clear that Bernard killed Elsie by the time it came on screen that just showing that reverse shot as they did, but cutting before Bernard's face was shown, would have been more in the spirit of the show and still would have made it clear that it was him.

Having said that, the tie-up and build towards a huge season end is palpably getting closer. I thought the scene between MiB and Teddy was excellent.

One thing I'm starting to lose track of:

Spoiler

The timelines are starting to confuse me, mostly in that Dolores' solo journey seems to be after her journey with William, yet the town is buried when she's there with him so it must presumably be after? Unless there's solo journey when she arrives and the town is populated / the shootout happens, journey with William when the town is buried, then third timeframe when she returns and it's been uncovered but is empty? Or are those last two the other way around?

 

[sjago13]

Mixed opinions on this one -- as the need to elucidate some of the complexities for those who haven't worked them out yet becomes more time-critical, some of the revelations are being handled with a slight lack of subtlety imo. The dialogue in Dolores' breakdown scene was the worst culprit; there were a couple of others but I can't remember them right now. Also thought it was so patently clear that Bernard killed Elsie by the time it came on screen that just showing that reverse shot as they did, but cutting before Bernard's face was shown, would have been more in the spirit of the show and still would have made it clear that it was him.

Having said that, the tie-up and build towards a huge season end is palpably getting closer. I thought the scene between MiB and Teddy was excellent.

One thing I'm starting to lose track of:

Spoiler

The timelines are starting to confuse me, mostly in that Dolores' solo journey seems to be after her journey with William, yet the town is buried when she's there with him so it must presumably be after? Unless there's solo journey when she arrives and the town is populated / the shootout happens, journey with William when the town is buried, then third timeframe when she returns and it's been uncovered but is empty? Or are those last two the other way around?

Spoiler

There are 3 major points in time that the show deals with: Very early days with Arnold, Will which should be ~5 years after Arnold, and MiB that is about ~30 years after Will. We see all 3 time frames of Dolores when she comes across the town. There is the town populated in the early days, the town buried when Will is there, and the town rebuilt in the "current" time when she is alone and the town is empty. They splice those 3 together to make it confusing. Since episode 3 they have been playing around with showing us flashbacks (memory seepage) of Dolores.

 

[epcyclopedia]

About timelines...

You can't remember things that didn't chronologically happen.

Dolores shot the milk bandit because she remembered the MiB, no? And from there she ends up with Will.

Much of this confusion could be solved by going back and rewatching but I'm not feeling that, lol

 

[sjago13]

About timelines...

You can't remember things that didn't chronologically happen.

Dolores shot the milk bandit because she remembered the MiB, no? And from there she ends up with Will.

Much of this confusion could be solved by going back and rewatching but I'm not feeling that, lol

The whole milk bandit is where they trick us and make us believe Will is contemporary. Milk bandit happens in MiB time and then she goes off solo. Something else similar must send her off where she ends up with Will.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Well, where is Original Abernathy's breakdown set?

 

[LieutLaww]

Spoiler

Are we sure that Elsie is actually dead, we don't see it all we see is Bernard with his arm around her neck in a flashback, everyone else we have seen killed in some way or another

 

[Cschaaf]

Spoiler

Are we sure that Elsie is actually dead, we don't see it all we see is Bernard with his arm around her neck in a flashback, everyone else we have seen killed in some way or another

Spoiler

Yeah, we really can't believe anything that we haven't seen. We didn't see Elsie die, which normally would be a tip-off that she's not dead. But, we've never seen someone that we knew as a human get rebuilt as a bot. That seems the likely 'twist' here and why they wouldn't show her death.

Maybe there is a human-to-host conversion kit that gets installed. lol

Even when the show shows us things, we can't believe that, either.

I'm still hoping against the multiple timeframes. I haven't seen anything that proves it either way. There is a preponderance of evidence that says we are seeing multiple timeframes, but there is still opportunity for them to explain it as one.

The show is heading down a dangerous path. If the big twist it multiple timeframes, I think they have 2 episodes left to tell us that. And once they tell us, that changes how they can tell us the story, I think.

If William = MiB, that would have to be tied in with the timeframe reveal, which also changes how they can tell us the story.