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Frozen Ever After

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rhino4evr said:
this may have happened due to how cheap this overlay will supposedly be.
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Ugh. If this is like Jingle Cruise I will be really disappointed even more. Even the general public people I have talked to have been a little upset with this one. So it is not just theme park people upset that a ride is going. Like I said, I have had no problems with Epcot adding things for families to do, but at the same point, I wish they were ADDING something instead of changing something.
 
IzzyB said:
Ugh. If this is like Jingle Cruise I will be really disappointed even more. Even the general public people I have talked to have been a little upset with this one. So it is not just theme park people upset that a ride is going. Like I said, I have had no problems with Epcot adding things for families to do, but at the same point, I wish they were ADDING something instead of changing something.
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Personally I think if they just put a giant sign taped up over anywhere that references Norway like they did for Jingle Cruise I would die laughing. Maybe they can throw an Elsa mask on the polar bear if they can spare the extra money.
 
IzzyB said:
Ugh. If this is like Jingle Cruise I will be really disappointed even more. Even the general public people I have talked to have been a little upset with this one. So it is not just theme park people upset that a ride is going. Like I said, I have had no problems with Epcot adding things for families to do, but at the same point, I wish they were ADDING something instead of changing something.
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I have a problem with adding stuff for families to EPCOT if Disney's only definition of stuff for families is "movie tie in ride".
 
JungleSkip said:
I have a problem with adding stuff for families to EPCOT if Disney's only definition of stuff for families is "movie tie in ride".
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See and I would love the ratatouille ride added to France. I think that would be the perfect addition and fit into the theme while still appealing to the families. So I don't mind if they do things like that. I also like the coloring stations for kids and the scavenger hunt type of thing with the phones. I think both of those made the countries more interesting to kids.
 
IzzyB said:
See and I would love the ratatouille ride added to France. I think that would be the perfect addition and fit into the theme while still appealing to the families. So I don't mind if they do things like that. I also like the coloring stations for kids and the scavenger hunt type of thing with the phones. I think both of those made the countries more interesting to kids.
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It doesn't really fit in theme. The ride has nothing to do with the culture of France (and is Antarctica-level bad to boot). Sure it's set in France, but so is Beauty and the Beast and I wouldn't want them to plop Be Our Guest down there. The Kidcot stations are fine, and the Agent P thing is okay because it's at least kind of hidden.

The original Journey Into Imagination showed they can do EPCOT for kids without resorting to crappy character tie ins
 
JungleSkip said:
It doesn't really fit in theme. The ride has nothing to do with the culture of France (and is Antarctica-level bad to boot). Sure it's set in France, but so is Beauty and the Beast and I wouldn't want them to plop Be Our Guest down there. The Kidcot stations are fine, and the Agent P thing is okay because it's at least kind of hidden.

The original Journey Into Imagination showed they can do EPCOT for kids without resorting to crappy character tie ins
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The problem is kids are drawn to character based rides. My daughter asks for Pooh and Peter Pan before she asks for things with no characters (HM, PoTC, etc). When we are in Epcot it is Nemo, not I want to see fish or Mexico. The one ride we always have to go to in Epcot is Nemo, it is the one ride she knows how to ask for because it has a character in it. I wish it wasn't this way, but unfortunately it is. She will happily ride the other stuff, but until we ride Nemo, after each ride it is Nemo Next? She is now even getting smart and knows where it is within Epcot.

Now I have a 3 1/2 year old who just in the last 9 months has started asking to ride things. Prior to that she didn't ask for anything and once in awhile would point to a ride when we passed it. Maybe when she is 5 or 6 she will start asking for other rides that she learns about or as she gets taller and can ride more thrilling rides she will learn the names of those. Because in MK or Uni she will ask for coasters.

But in her age group it is all about the characters. It is amazing she could name every Mickey character before she could name her colors or shapes. She even knew the minor characters and it isn't like we sat her in front of the TV 24/7 she would get about 1/2 to an hour a night vs way more learning time between daycare, speech therapy, and us doing learning games.
 
IzzyB said:
The problem is kids are drawn to character based rides. My daughter asks for Pooh and Peter Pan before she asks for things with no characters (HM, PoTC, etc). When we are in Epcot it is Nemo, not I want to see fish or Mexico. The one ride we always have to go to in Epcot is Nemo, it is the one ride she knows how to ask for because it has a character in it. I wish it wasn't this way, but unfortunately it is. She will happily ride the other stuff, but until we ride Nemo, after each ride it is Nemo Next? She is now even getting smart and knows where it is within Epcot.

Now I have a 3 1/2 year old who just in the last 9 months has started asking to ride things. Prior to that she didn't ask for anything and once in awhile would point to a ride when we passed it. Maybe when she is 5 or 6 she will start asking for other rides that she learns about or as she gets taller and can ride more thrilling rides she will learn the names of those. Because in MK or Uni she will ask for coasters.

But in her age group it is all about the characters. It is amazing she could name every Mickey character before she could name her colors or shapes. She even knew the minor characters and it isn't like we sat her in front of the TV 24/7 she would get about 1/2 to an hour a night vs way more learning time between daycare, speech therapy, and us doing learning games.
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Sure, but if those characters weren't there, and there was original, engrossing characters your daughter would enjoy, I don't think she'd know the difference.

And, IMO, WDW has 4 parks. 2 of which are perfect for characters. I don't think EPCOT is the place for character attractions.
 
JungleSkip said:
Sure, but if those characters weren't there, and there was original, engrossing characters your daughter would enjoy, I don't think she'd know the difference.

And, IMO, WDW has 4 parks. 2 of which are perfect for characters. I don't think EPCOT is the place for character attractions.
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I don't know. Maybe you are right, but she could care less about Figment, because she doesn't see that character outside of the park. But she sees these other characters outside of the park, so she already knows them. Would she like Epcot if there was no characters? We also will never know that. But I do know MK is her favorite. I think we should just agree to disagree. I am OK with characters, I just wish they would add more attractions to Epcot instead of replacing old ones.

BTW, you could make the same argument about Universal. Why don't they do an original rides instead of IP based rides. Because original doesn't sell tickets anymore.
 
IzzyB said:
BTW, you could make the same argument about Universal. Why don't they do an original rides instead of IP based rides. Because original doesn't sell tickets anymore.
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Comparing EPCOT to Universal is like comparing a jellyfish to a cell phone. Their purposes are not comparable to each other in the slightest. Universal was built on the idea of "ride the movies", necessitating property use. EPCOT was not.

Things like Mystic Manor's success, along with Everest and Soarin's 8 years ago, clearly show good original rides do indeed sell tickets.
 
Whuh? They are removing a country from the world showcase and replacing it with a fantasy-land? I thought this was just about the ride. Perhaps it is and I am misunderstanding...
 
Unfortunately the damage was done the moment Nemo came to Seas...now everyone expects Pixar characters in Epcot..doesn't make it right, but after Nemo there is no going back unfortunately...Epcot's original characters made the park very unique and different..those days are long gone though..Epcot is really just Tomorrowland's trash pile with a well themed food court attached...again, vision has left the building
 
JungleSkip said:
Comparing EPCOT to Universal is like comparing a jellyfish to a cell phone. Their purposes are not comparable to each other in the slightest. Universal was built on the idea of "ride the movies", necessitating property use. EPCOT was not.

Things like Mystic Manor's success, along with Everest and Soarin's 8 years ago, clearly show good original rides do indeed sell tickets.
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Did Everest bump attendance? Because I always thought the numbers were not conclusive as to whether it helped AK or not. Maybe where I read that was wrong though.

I understand what Epcot was built for. The issue is that technology has grown so much that kids have a ton of fun educational tools right in front of them all the time. This makes parks like Epcot difficult to continue with the type of original vision they had, they need to evolve a little. Do I think Epcot should still have an educational/technology twist to all its rides, yes. I totally see value in things like Innovation Way. I would not want them to plop a completely non-educational character based themed ride right in the middle of future world. It would look silly. But they do need to figure out a way to do education and keep people interested. If that includes a current character, I am ok with that. Epcot needs SO much work right now. Buildings not being used (Body Wars), completely outdated rides (Energy), rides that are just not popular amongst anyone (Figment), and countries with outdated movies is not helping Epcot. Which is why I think Frozen is a mistake. They shouldn't be replacing rides that are popular/fun with a character based ride. They need to come up with new ways to entertain & educate kids in the buildings not being used or rides that are barely ridden. That should be their goal right now. Put Frozen in another park, because in Epcot it would only work in Norway. If it was a country that needed help with a ride I would probably be all for it. But you don't replace your 3rd most popular ride in the whole park. That is not helping your overall park. Sure it will give them a boast in attendance when it opens up, we all know that, but it won't help with getting people to RETURN to Epcot every trip for the whole day. They need to improve Epcot so people want to come back with their whole family for every trip.

We both agree that Frozen is a mistake, but we just don't agree that characters should never be used in Epcot. You can take a known character instead of a made up character to teach the kids something. Figment was a good original ride (now sucks for everyone) and it had a "character" in it. They could do a ride like that but tie it to an existing Disney character. I have no problem with something like that.
 
JungleSkip said:
I've only heard it's the ride. Either way, it's unacceptable
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I took the post
The international program Cast Members at the Norway Pavilion have been informed that attractions and merchandise positions at the pavilion will not exist beyond the end of September. CM's with contracts in October and beyond are being offered transfers and training in Food/Beverage. Recruitment for Fall/Winter attractions/merchandise has been canceled.
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as the removal of Norway entirely. If they were only replacing the ride those with visas/contracts would still be necessary.
 
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JungleSkip said:
We'll see. They'll still need food positions. They may change the entire pavilion, but as of now I haven't heard that's the case.
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I think it is specifying anyone that is over on visa contracts, meaning they ditch the higher cost locals of the countries and replace them with standard operating CMs. This is specifically saying International program Cast Members being moved and no longer being recruited.
 
Ad0niS8 said:
I think it is specifying anyone that is over on visa contracts, meaning they ditch the higher cost locals of the countries and replace them with standard operating CMs. This is specifically saying International program Cast Members being moved and no longer being recruited.
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But it says just for merchandising and attractions, nothing about Food and Beverage, meaning Norwegians will still be working Kringla and Akershus
 
The line for the Frozen ride is probably going to spiral into other countries...lol. I hope they use the theater for more qeueue space...
 
rhino4evr said:
The line for the Frozen ride is probably going to spiral into other countries...lol. I hope they use the theater for more qeueue space...
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They are. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the shops go for more queue space as well. Maelstrom's hourly capacity is under 1000, so lines will be insane for the attraction
 
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