Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind - General Discussion

[belloq87]

I don't think the purported tastes of the "GP" should have any bearing on our personal likes/dislikes in any situation.

 

[Nick]

I don't think the purported tastes of the "GP" should have any bearing on our personal likes/dislikes in any situation.

No, but it helps you when understanding why Disney is making the moves they are making. IP based thrill/motion based rides are what the majority of guests want. Most of Epcot bores the average guest, especially before Ratatouille in WS. I like Rat, but consider the motion to be light, however I actually know a few who feel sick after it. Also, as I have said, UoE had barely any ridership by the end of its tenure.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

I don't think the purported tastes of the "GP" should have any bearing on our personal likes/dislikes in any situation.

Oh, I 100% agree with you. But I have a problem with that argument being used as a conversation-stopper for certain topics while being completely blown off for others depending on the narrative being pushed.

 

[OhHaiInternet95]

No, but you it helps when understanding why Disney is making the moves they are making. IP based thrill/motion based rides are what the majority of guests want. Most of Epcot bores the average guest, especially before Ratatouille in WS. I like Rat, but consider the motion to be light, however I actually know a few who feel sick after it. Also, as I have said, UoE had barely any ridership by the end of its tenure.

I'm sadly convinced that most classic dark rides (HM, PotC, etc.) would be poorly received by the GP if built today without already having been burned into pop culture. And I do think you can blame Wizarding World for that.

 

[fryoj]

I'm convinced that most classic dark rides (HM, PotC, etc.) would be poorly received by the GP if built today without already having been burned into pop culture. And I do think you can blame Wizarding World for that.

Take a teenager through MK..... I can still feel their boredom.

 

[OLSinFLA]

It's not just better rides from 40 years ago. They were also higher capacity and longer. When EPCOT opened ride time alone for UoE, Horizons, WoM was one hour and 15 minutes. And each ride moved about 2500 and hour. Now total ride time is 12 minutes, It's one of the reasons people feel there' "nothing to do"

 

[Nick]

It's not just better rides from 40 years ago. They were also higher capacity and longer. When EPCOT opened ride time alone for UoE, Horizons, WoM was one hour and 15 minutes. And each ride moved about 2500 and hour. Now total ride time is 12 minutes, It's one of the reasons people feel there' "nothing to do"

If long ride times is why people love classic EPCOT and/or feel like it was great feel like it was great (on top of "edutainment"), then that's just sad imo. Those ride times were far too long in general, never mind for 2022.

And I don't feel like there's nothing to do. Epcot actually has the most to do by far out of the non-MK parks. One or twos more ride in World Showcase certainly couldn't hurt, but the Future World half of the park is perfectly fine if they would actually get SSE a refurb, the Wonders Pavilion back as part of daytime operation, and a revamp of the Imagination Pavilion.

 

[TJwny]

No, but it helps you when understanding why Disney is making the moves they are making. IP based thrill/motion based rides are what the majority of guests want. Most of Epcot bores the average guest, especially before Ratatouille in WS. I like Rat, but consider the motion to be light, however I actually know a few who feel sick after it. Also, as I have said, UoE had barely any ridership by the end of its tenure.

Was good for an air conditioned nap

 

[Nick]

Was good for an air conditioned nap

Can still do that and probably inhale asbestos all the same on SSE, Awesome Planet, or The American Adventure

For the Record, I enjoy all of those attractions, but when I go with friends or even family, the only time they even are willing to step foot inside The American Adventure pavilion is to see the Voices of Liberty and they very much disliked rides like UoE and GMR. I agree with them on UoE, but always was trying to get them to go on GMR and they didn't want to do it a lot of the time. They said yes with GMR though because DHS has never had a ton.

 

[OLSinFLA]

If classic EPCOT is the only reason people feel like it was great, then that's just sad imo. Those ride times were far too long in general, never mind for 2022.

And I don't feel like there's nothing to do. Epcot actually has the most to do by far out of the non-MK parks. One more ride in World Showcase certainly couldn't hurt, but the Future World half of the park is perfectly fine if they would actually get SSE a refurb, the Wonders Pavilion back as part of daytime operation, and a revamp of the Imagination Pavilion.

Too long? Better skip Disneyland then. Pirates clocks in at 16 minutes there and people stand in line for it. The problem isn't the number of attractions ... its shortness. The park wasn't designed for 5 minute rides.

Lets see what rides are longer than 5 minutes: Haunted Mansion, Small World, Jungle Cruise, Riverboat, Pirates, Splash Mountain, PeopleMover, Imagination, Living with the Land, Spaceship Earth, Voyage of the Little Mermaid, RoTR, Safari
This doesn't include shows. Seems like there are quite a few popular rides.... most of which are either clones from Disneyland or untouched original EPCOT attractions.

 

[Nick]

Too long? Better skip Disneyland then. Pirates clocks in at 16 minutes there and people stand in line for it. The problem isn't the number of attractions ... its shortness. The park wasn't designed for 5 minute rides.

Lets see what rides are longer than 5 minutes: Haunted Mansion, Small World, Jungle Cruise, Riverboat, Pirates, Splash Mountain, PeopleMover, Imagination, Living with the Land, Spaceship Earth, Voyage of the Little Mermaid, RoTR, Safari
This doesn't include shows. Seems like there are quite a few popular rides.... most of which are either clones from Disneyland or untouched original EPCOT attractions.

Do you honestly within your heart of hearts believe that SSE or Living with the Land have a higher GSAT than Frozen, Ratatouille, Soarin, Test Track, or what GotG is likely to have (especially with it being the first coaster in the park)? I like SSE and Living with the Land quite a bit, but I just doubt they can compete with IP driven rides, more intense rides, or something like Soarin which is fun for virtually all ages.

When Disney announced they were getting rid of UoE and GMR, they did it in part because part are hard to find, but also because BOTH RIDES were reported to have extremely low GSATs at the time of closure and the years leading up. There was actually a GotG ride proposed to replace GMR a few years before MMRR was announced.

And honestly, I really believe about 6 minutes is about the max amount of time a ride should last unless you something great to offer me and it's not just a waste of my time like UoE was. Your position seems to be "Longer = better" which just isn't true. A good ride engages the guests in some sort of stimulating way or by pulling off something that leaves them with a true "wow!" moment.

Pirates at DL I certainly enjoy more than MK's, but only because MK's is so mediocre. Tbh, I almost wish MK's pirates would just get replaced by Battle for the Sunken Treasure and to combat your point about ride times, both MK's Pirates and Shanghai's are around 8.5 minutes. Shanghai just has action baked in with the ride.

Back on track to GotG...

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

Do you honestly within your heart of hearts believe that SSE or Living with the Land have a higher GSAT than Frozen, Ratatouille, Soarin, Test Track, or what GotG is likely to have (especially with it being the first coaster in the park)? I like SSE and Living with the Land quite a bit, but I just doubt they can compete with IP driven rides, more intense rides, or something like Soarin which is fun for virtually all ages.

When Disney announced they were getting rid of UoE and GMR, they did it in part because part are hard to find, but also because BOTH RIDES were reported to have extremely low GSATs at the time of closure and the years leading up. There was actually a GotG ride proposed to replace GMR a few years before MMRR was announced.

And honestly, I really believe about 6 minutes is about the max amount of time a ride should last unless you something great to offer me and it's not just a waste of my time like UoE was. Your position seems to be "Longer = better" which just isn't true. A good ride engages the guests in some sort of stimulating way or by pulling off something that leaves them with a true "wow!" moment.

Pirates at DL I certainly enjoy more than MK's, but only because MK's is so mediocre. Tbh, I almost wish MK's pirates would just get replaced by Battle for the Sunken Treasure and to combat your point about ride times, both MK's Pirates and Shanghai's are around 8.5 minutes. Shanghai just has action baked in with the ride.

Back on track to GotG...

I hate all of this.

 

[shiekra38]

Do you honestly within your heart of hearts believe that SSE or Living with the Land have a higher GSAT than Frozen, Ratatouille, Soarin, Test Track, or what GotG is likely to have (especially with it being the first coaster in the park)? I like SSE and Living with the Land quite a bit, but I just doubt they can compete with IP driven rides, more intense rides, or something like Soarin which is fun for virtually all ages.

I'm gonna go with the high-tech coaster, personally

 

[Nick]

I'm gonna go with the high-tech coaster, personally

As will I.

I would like to point out that I believe all of us having this discussion are also a fan of the Disney Parks and probably have a connection to them from going at such a young age. Many people only make it to WDW one or two times in their life. Just because i'm a fan doesn't mean i'm against change though and I don't know that there's a group of fans more against change than EPCOT Center fans.

It feels like Disney could tear down Cinderella Castle and they'd receive way less criticism than doing something as daring as building a ride based on an IP in EPCOT or something like that.

 

[Mad Dog]

Guaranteed to cause an Epcot guest revolt: If Disney 'Banned' :ban:alcohol sales....Guests would tear the park down and hang effigies of Mickey from the Monorail tracks.

 

[queenmetroid]

It feels like Disney could tear down Cinderella Castle and they'd receive way less criticism than doing something as daring as building a ride based on an IP in EPCOT or something like that.

This is also a group of people who screamed and cried about Disney "defacing" a barely 30 year old ride installed by no less than the reviled Michael Eisner. If you think that destroying the quintessential symbol of Walt's Original Vision™ wouldn't lead to martial law, I'm not sure you've been reading the Walt Disney World News Today comment section enough. ;D

That gives me an idea for a reality show where Disney takes panels of APs Magic Key holders and pitches them fake concept art and press releases of terrible ideas to record their reaction.

Disclosure: I actually have always liked Eisner and don't really understand the hate he gets. I find it laughable now that all the people who once hated him are nostalgic for his tenure. How the turn tables.

 

[Nick]

This is also a group of people who screamed and cried about Disney "defacing" a barely 30 year old ride installed by no less than the reviled Michael Eisner. If you think that destroying the quintessential symbol of Walt's Original Vision™ wouldn't lead to martial law, I'm not sure you've been reading the Walt Disney World News Today comment section enough. ;D

That gives me an idea for a reality show where Disney takes panels of APs Magic Key holders and pitches them fake concept art and press releases of terrible ideas to record their reaction.

Disclosure: I actually have always liked Eisner and don't really understand the hate he gets. I find it laughable now that all the people who once hated him are nostalgic for his tenure. How the turn tables.

Re: Eisner.

The beginning of his tenure was great, but he lost a step along the way. Eisner actually let Epcot sink into the terrible condition it was in all throughout the 90's and his tenure in the early 00's. After Norway and Wonders were added, it was like they gave up on Epcot.

That Horizons for example. It closed in 1994, only to open again on an extremely seasonal basis, and then stay seasonal until 1999 when they finally decided to put it out of its misery with Mission: Space... which didn't open until 2003. That's almost a decade without a permanent running ride in that spot. There was also the Test Track debacle, which has now been eclipsed in construction time by GotG.

Then there's Journey Into Imagination which was a complete disaster so much so that after they re-did the ride, they went back and re-did it again because of bad reception. There's the fairly fast downfall of Wonders of Life after it lost it's MetLife sponsorship in 2001. It went into seasonal operation by 2004 and closed for good by 2007. Leave A Legacy in the late 90's.

Again, Eisner was good at adding things in the parks early in his tenure, but by the end, the well seemed to dry up and we ended up in a theme park desert by the time Iger took over. I think Iger gets a lot of crap, and rightfully so in many cases, but he came in with a really bad hand on the theme park side, basically having to announce complete re-do's of DCA, DHS, WDSP, and Epcot before the idiot took over.

 

[queenmetroid]

The beginning of his tenure was great, but he lost a step along the way. Eisner actually let Epcot sink into the terrible condition it was in all throughout the 90's and his tenure in the early 00's. After Norway and Wonders were added, it was like they gave up on Epcot.

Oh, yeah, he definitely lost his way, and I'll blame that on deeper factors such as the inability to recognize his issues and get the proper help with his mental health after Frank Wells died. However, I think one of the points to glean from your post is that no one really knows what to do with Epcot, and that wasn't uniquely an Eisner problem; it's been that way forever and he inherited a lot of creative debt because very few of the rides in the park were intended to be or truly could be timeless (Spaceship Earth, given the proper care and attention, being a notable exception). People by and large go to theme parks for rides and experiences, and I don't think the "vibe" at Epcot is a selling point for anyone without a Magic Key, even if I personally just enjoy hanging out there. The Food and Wine festival has basically been not so obvious cover for Epcot's core structural issues for decades; namely that the theme as it was originally intended is infinitely more difficult to maintain than fairy tales and castles. On top of that, most theme parks operate under the mentality of "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" mentality, and while this isn't a uniquely Disney problem, they are absolutely one of the worst offenders because their popularity allows them to be so. Epcot especially exemplifies this issue. I'd say Iger didn't really have a much better solution other than bringing in Disney characters and cloning rides in existing parks into Epcot, and they still haven't figured out what they want to do with Animal Kingdom, which at least doesn't feel dated so much as stale.

Bringing that back to the Guardians of the Galaxy, which is the first truly new ride in awhile, this is another flavor of the now ride that may need to be rethemed in a couple decades, but it's the best option for the park that doesn't know what it wants to be. As you stated above, it will get high GSATs, and that's really all that matters for them because the drive for attendance has trumped creative vision in Imagineering for half a century now. And that hasn't *really* been the terrible thing the super fans make it out to be as It's produced a lot of good rides in some places. While I personally don't necessarily care if there's a unifying theme in a theme park, it is interesting to watch Disney struggle with the issue and kick the Epcot theme issue down the road yet again. I'd wager that that if Chapek sticks around this will be an even worse issue.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

Honestly y’all, this ride is such a need for Epcot whether it fits thematically or not, so I don’t see this being nothing but an outright slam dunk hit.

 

[belloq87]

It feels like Disney could tear down Cinderella Castle and they'd receive way less criticism than doing something as daring as building a ride based on an IP in EPCOT or something like that.

As I've said many times, the issue is not implementing IP in Epcot. The issue is laziness in how they go about it.

There was a very easy way to make a FROZEN ride fit perfectly into Norway. They didn't do it.

There are ways a GOTG ride could fit into (what was once) Future World. They (apparently) didn't do it.

There are any number of ways to do a great Mary Poppins attraction in the U.K. Pavilion. They're not doing it.

All the while, they pander (if not outright lie) and talk about how they're "honoring" the legacy of the park, and it's just nonsense.