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Westworld

  • Thread starter Thread starter Teebin
  • Start date Start date Oct 1, 2016
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LieutLaww

LieutLaww

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UK
  • Nov 23, 2016
  • #401
I think it has to be multiple timelines as we see MiB recognise the Host from when William first went to the Park and said "I thought you would have been retired by now" It would be strange to kill Elise off camera and to replace with a Host copy but I suppose anything could happen, and do they really have to tie everything up in the last 2 episodes ? Maybe they have already planned and shot alternate season endings depending on if they were picked up for a second season or not.
 
C

Cschaaf

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Messages
51
  • Nov 23, 2016
  • #402
My responses in bold

LieutLaww said:
I think it has to be multiple timelines as we see MiB recognise the Host from when William first went to the Park and said "I thought you would have been retired by now"
We don't know where he recognized her from. We've seen her at park entry, in the dance scene with the parasol, in the promo video, and now with Wyatt.

We know that hosts change roles. Maybe many repeat visitors would know her from multiple place. Does it point to William = MiB? Sure. Does it rule out that they could be different people? No.


It would be strange to kill Elise off camera and to replace with a Host copy but I suppose anything could happen, and do they really have to tie everything up in the last 2 episodes ? Maybe they have already planned and shot alternate season endings depending on if they were picked up for a second season or not.

I just don't think hiding multiple timeframes can be a long-term thing. It works in movies that are 2 hours long, it won't work as well when we have a whole year before the next episode.

I am more wondering if people will come back to the show if the timeframe thing isn't resolved by the end of the season. I wonder how people who are just watching the show and not engaging in the crazy theories feel. Are they totally lost? Are they just watching for scenery at this point?
Click to expand...
article_post_width_Space_BALLS.thumb.JPG.682682cf6dcdc81b4fdfa344ccc52a76.JPG
 
Teebin

Teebin

Veteran Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
East Central Florida
  • Nov 27, 2016
  • #403
Yesterday, HBO ran all the current episodes back to back. So, where do some of you assume this story might go tonight?

I came away from yesterday wondering why Ford would have made such mistakes adding the nuances. Too, I wondered why he would have Elsie pulled for revealing Theresa's secret attempts to export info to others? Ford doesn't want his data/info revealed, so the Bernard flashback defies logic.
 
Andysol

Andysol

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Messages
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  • Nov 27, 2016
  • #404
Welp, don't say I didn't tell ya :D

The truth came out and now we have all our answers. Glad it happened now so we can move towards a great finale with all new stuff and little speculation.
 
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Cschaaf

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  • Nov 27, 2016
  • #405
The finale will be next level bonkers
 
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Cschaaf

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Joined
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Messages
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  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #406
A few comments:

William\Logan\Dolores
  • Still not excited about this story
  • Getting harder to hope that William does not equal MiB
  • I think it's still possible that Logan = MiB. Either way, meh.
  • Why does Logan carry a picture of his sister? That's odd. Why didn't the writers just have Logan reach into William's vest and pull out the picture. It would have made a lot more sense for William to be carrying that picture.
Maeve
  • Thandi Newton still rocks.
  • I loved her little eye twitches in the beginning.
  • Someone smart on that show realized what a gold mine Thandi's eyes are and baked it into the show. Well done, unnamed person.
Bernard
  • Not thrilled with the way this one turned out - Bernard being the embodiment of Arnold
  • Nice twist with Ford making Bernard off himself, though. I like how they have doubled up on the reveals (Bernard is a hots then he kills Theresa; Bernard is Arnold then he kills himself)
  • I hope Bernard gets rebuilt. Between the deaths, disappearances, decommissions, 2 characters being one person, and 2 characters likely being one person, the cast is getting pretty thin.
Stubbs
  • He's in a world of trouble now
  • Another Jurassic Park reference - The Ghost Nation = JP raptors. "Clever girl"
 
Andysol

Andysol

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Joined
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Messages
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Age
42
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #407
Cschaaf said:
My comments bolded:

William\Logan\Dolores
  • Still not excited about this story
  • Getting harder to hope that William does not equal MiB "when I first saw one cut open, it had thousands of mechanical parts". Come on Cschaaf.... although I'm with you- either way IDGAF
  • I think it's still possible that Logan = MiB. Either way, meh.
  • Why does Logan carry a picture of his sister? That's odd. Why didn't the writers just have Logan reach into William's vest and pull out the picture. It would have made a lot more sense for William to be carrying that picture. Did you notice it was the same picture that Delores and her original dad looked at- the lady in Times Square. Of course, this one was brand new vs the buried and dirty one. I wouldn't be surprised if William buries both the gun and the picture at the farm. Although wouldn't that decay a bit more after 30 years? Must be that future photo paper that is eternal. Edited to add: Upon further thinking- what if MiB puts the gun and photo there in the premiere. Maybe he left it in the Haystack when we think he is "raping" her. Or maybe he buried the gun. That makes way more sense...
Maeve
  • Thandi Newton still rocks.
  • I loved her little eye twitches in the beginning.
  • Someone smart on that show realized what a gold mine Thandi's eyes are and baked it into the show. Well done, unnamed person. Thandie is a beast. Insanely sexy, facial expressions are flawless, pacing and delivery is immaculate. She's the star, for sure (her and Hopkins).
  • Note: her calling them "Jailers" was awesome. She's so good.
Bernard
  • Not thrilled with the way this one turned out - Bernard being the embodiment of Arnold
  • Nice twist with Ford making Bernard off himself, though. I like how they have doubled up on the reveals (Bernard is a hots then he kills Theresa; Bernard is Arnold then he kills himself)
  • I hope Bernard gets rebuilt. Between the deaths, disappearances, decommissions, 2 characters being one person, and 2 characters likely being one person, the cast is getting pretty thin. I'm shocked he killed himself, actually. It makes complete sense though- Ford made Bernard to be like Arnold because he missed his friend and the challenges personally and improvements to hosts he made as well. However, Bernard followed in Arnold's footsteps, and Ford clearly didn't want that to repeat itself, therefore, I tried, I failed, No need to continue this misery.
Stubbs
  • He's in a world of trouble now
  • Another Jurassic Park reference - The Ghost Nation = JP raptors. "Clever girl"
Click to expand...

Some interesting observations here as well:

So the 3 timeline thing was confirmed- good. And most of the stuff finally is solved- where is present delores, etc. But we got a lot of neat additions now as well:


Arnold 33/35 years old timeline:
We see a fully functioning center below the church. We see several hosts who are starting to become self-aware- one of which is Angela (the blonde who welcomed William and the one who stabbed Teddy). So Angela was in Westworld as a host before she was at the center as a host/greeter and she started to become self aware there. We also know that is where Delores has had all of her meetings with Arnold (who we thought was bernard)- in that spot- in that building. OK- that's about all there.


William 30 years old timeline:
The weakest of the timelines, but still starting to see more things come out. Like the picture that we see in the earlier episodes of his wife (lady in times square), and the massacre that William did. I'm ready to see his full realization to MiB. Guessing we'll find out in the finale. I also believe we saw the aftermath of the "incident" in the church area where the functioning center was below the confessional. It appears Delores kills everyone in there- so we should see this also next episode. Oh ya, and Logan is apparently the hand to the king from GoT with his cool pin :D
Other than that, a resounding "meh" from williams timeline.


Current timeline:
By far the best of the bunch. We have Maive, we have Ford. Need I say more?
This is where the most is going on.

*Angela
-35 years ago shes becoming sentient
-30 years ago shes reprogrammed and is welcoming guests
-presently she appears to be completely sentient again. Her most important line to MiB "The maze isn't for you". We find out, it isn't. The Maze is for the hosts to figure out sentience based on their inner-voices. She had it 35 years ago, and now shes fully aware again- all without Arnold being alive or Bernard's touch. This kind of got sideswept, but she's fully there. She knows all about Teddy and she is trying to get him to be sentient too. He just "isn't ready yet". There is way more to this story.

*MiB
-I liked his scene with Charlotte. Made him seem more human / humane.
-We also found out that he, along with Charlotte, are both trying to smuggle the info.
-He shows up at the church, Delores recoils. We FINALLY get to see current Delores
confirmed.
-I still think MiB isn't a bad guy- and that he didn't rape/kill Delores in the barn. Keep in mind, his wife who killed herself didn't love him and he was clearly in love with a robot... In fact, we know MiB learned how Maive originally came "alive" by having something happen to her cornerstone. I believe MiB has just been trying to shake Delores' "cornerstone" for her to become self-aware, and it hasn't worked. It's actually a tragic love-story and he's not bad in the slightest.
-Can't wait for this story- I'm anticipating this the most- if they do it right, they can really pull off some serious emotions here. The only thing that sucks is you have 3 of your weakest actors trying to attempt it (William, Delores, and an MiB that has been very one dimensional- not a knock on Ed Harris, just the character arc/personality is lacking).

*Delores
-It was clear she was retracing her steps, hence all the flashbacks, visions, etc. Everything- and I mean everything we were speculating on regarding that is now confirmed. Glad to put this to rest.
-How is she going to kill Arnold? Why? This doesn't make much sense, but hopefully we get this answer next episode.



Finally, a quick little nugget:
Ford suggests that humans have essentially killed everything on earth. No more animals or anything. We killed all them, now weve made robots to quench that thirst. Interesting. Also liked Delores saying that everyone keeps talking about getting her out- but if out there is so good, why are they paying to come in Westworld. Nice...
 
Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
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Teebin

Teebin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
20,673
Location
East Central Florida
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #408
Cschaaf said:
A few comments:
Click to expand...

For those of you across the Atlantic, do not peek at the spoiler above!

Talking in tongues as I do: Maeve amazed me in the first 7 minutes, she will you too...

The rest of the show becomes like finger painting to me... messy and unclear. A little too much, too much.[/QUOTE]
 
Andysol

Andysol

Webslinger
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
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Age
42
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #409
Im going to go back and watch the early episodes with the thought process that MiB is a protagonist- and while he did "bad things" like killing Maive or Delores' family- I think it's all for the greater good- hoping the finale proves me correct.
 
Teebin

Teebin

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Joined
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Messages
20,673
Location
East Central Florida
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #410
^ Interesting concept...
 
Teebin

Teebin

Veteran Member
Joined
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Messages
20,673
Location
East Central Florida
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #411
BTW, is the lady who is with Teddy and MIB a moderately well known actress? She looks so familiar.
 
C

Cschaaf

Rookie
Joined
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Messages
51
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #412
Andysol said:
Im going to go back and watch the early episodes with the thought process that MiB is a protagonist- and while he did "bad things" like killing Maive or Delores' family- I think it's all for the greater good- hoping the finale proves me correct.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much how I've been watching since the beginning. They went too far our of their way to drill in that the MiB is a black hat and evil, that it felt opposite to me from the start. It goes back to the 'rape' that they didn't show us. They wanted us to think there was a rape, but there's no way an HBO show would have avoided showing us at least a glimpse of the rape.

Teebin said:
BTW, is the lady who is with Teddy and MIB a moderately well known actress? She looks so familiar.
Click to expand...

I caught her real name in the credits last night and looked her up. Talulah Riley - IMDb
 
Teebin

Teebin

Veteran Member
Joined
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Messages
20,673
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East Central Florida
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #413
And for those of you that do not get HBO... you have to see the opening credits. HBO does these up more royally than most movies.

 
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LieutLaww

LieutLaww

Jurassic Ranger
Joined
May 3, 2015
Messages
1,365
Location
UK
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #414
Teebin said:
For those of you across the Atlantic, do not peek at the spoiler above!
Click to expand...

Yea no can't not look I really want to know what is going on and seeing things get confirmed etc is great, and i still enjoy the episode anyway even tho I have seen the basics of what has gone on. Yes I am weak and I don't care :P
 
Teebin

Teebin

Veteran Member
Joined
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Messages
20,673
Location
East Central Florida
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #415
Cschaaf said:
I caught her real name in the credits last night and looked her up.
Click to expand...

Aaah! Pride & Prejudice and Inception. That would be it. Thanks!
 
Mr. EPCOT

Mr. EPCOT

Jurassic Ranger
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
Messages
1,667
Location
The Vacation Kingdom of the World
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #416
Teebin said:
Pride & Prejudice and Inception.
Click to expand...
I would totally see that movie.
 
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Andysol

Andysol

Webslinger
Joined
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Messages
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  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #417
Another theory
OK- so I have this other thought as to Logan being the MiB- but it doesn't make a ton of sense- considering we know MiB has been married 30 years and that is when William would have been married. But with that out of the way, here are some other ramblings:

With Teddy and Delores' flashbacks, I'm thinking:
1- Teddy and potentially others went nutso and killed everyone- maybe including arnold.
2- Ford has made that real life incident a memory and called it "Wyatt's" storyline
3- It appears all of Wyatt's "followers" are 1st gen-hosts.

So I think Ford's "Wyatt" storyline is him about to take out everyone at Delos again.
Arnold realized the hosts were gaining sentience, which he didn't want- so he used Arnold's system against him to control the hosts and create the accident that killed Arnold. The same "accident" he buried under the sand. Now, he's resurrecting this same story, and now that the board is here, he's going to take them out. And its about to come to a head with MiB.

Ok- so that's all feasible. Here is my crazy theory.

That said, I think there is someone else involved. Someone was messing with the satellite in addition to Theresa. Someone accessed Maives self-preservation enough to jump start her sentience w/ her daughter. Someone left the gun and picture. And while it could have been MiB- and maybe was- I don't know if it is him. So if not him, who? What if it's William- who has been staying in the park, and Logan is MiB. The only reason I say that is MiB said he acknowledged the hosts were alive after Maeve and her daughter. But William clearly thinks Delores is alive currently. I wonder if William is now at the center of the maze and he's the new Arnold. Out there thought- but maybe?
 
C

Cschaaf

Rookie
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
51
  • Nov 28, 2016
  • #418
Andysol said:
Another theory
OK- so I have this other thought as to Logan being the MiB- but it doesn't make a ton of sense- considering we know MiB has been married 30 years and that is when William would have been married. But with that out of the way, here are some other ramblings:

With Teddy and Delores' flashbacks, I'm thinking:
1- Teddy and potentially others went nutso and killed everyone- maybe including arnold.
2- Ford has made that real life incident a memory and called it "Wyatt's" storyline
3- It appears all of Wyatt's "followers" are 1st gen-hosts.

So I think Ford's "Wyatt" storyline is him about to take out everyone at Delos again.
Arnold realized the hosts were gaining sentience, which he didn't want- so he used Arnold's system against him to control the hosts and create the accident that killed Arnold. The same "accident" he buried under the sand. Now, he's resurrecting this same story, and now that the board is here, he's going to take them out. And its about to come to a head with MiB.

Ok- so that's all feasible. Here is my crazy theory.

That said, I think there is someone else involved. Someone was messing with the satellite in addition to Theresa. Someone accessed Maives self-preservation enough to jump start her sentience w/ her daughter. Someone left the gun and picture. And while it could have been MiB- and maybe was- I don't know if it is him. So if not him, who? What if it's William- who has been staying in the park, and Logan is MiB. The only reason I say that is MiB said he acknowledged the hosts were alive after Maeve and her daughter. But William clearly thinks Delores is alive currently. I wonder if William is now at the center of the maze and he's the new Arnold. Out there thought- but maybe?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I kinda think, at this point, that Nolan/Joy had to know people would be onto the multiple timeframes and the possibility that William is the MiB. Therefore, they had to have planned some kind of bigger twist. Either Logan is MiB or when we find out William is MiB, he has to kill Logan or something crazy.

Like I said in my last post, with the 2 Bernard reveals, they also snuck in a second reveal. I have to think that was intentional - they knew we'd all be expecting that reveal, they tipped their hand and we thought THAT was the reveal... gave it a few beats for people to send the "I told you so!" tweets, then the hit us with a second shocker right after.

I think the MiB, whoever he is, either buried the gun or had Dolores bury it.

The picture is the odd one. Who buried that? Why did Papa Abernathy find it? Did someone know that he was the closest to the edge of sentience and that he would start the sentience-virus moving?

I always took Felix's line to Maive that someone else had already tweaked her as a reference to the two times we already saw techs tweak her settings - one being Ellie. I'm not sure if they meant someone else buffed up her stats or not.
 
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DragonSlayer

DragonSlayer

Choose Thy Fate...
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Joined
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Messages
964
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  • Dec 1, 2016
  • #419
Watching the process of tying everything up makes you realise just how much is going on in this show.

Loved many of Bernard's scenes this week. Really good fill on the backstory elements we've been speculating about all through, and the shot of MiB entering the church was fantastically climactic.

Andysol said:
Some interesting observations here as well:

*Angela
-35 years ago shes becoming sentient
-30 years ago shes reprogrammed and is welcoming guests
-presently she appears to be completely sentient again. Her most important line to MiB "The maze isn't for you". We find out, it isn't. The Maze is for the hosts to figure out sentience based on their inner-voices. She had it 35 years ago, and now shes fully aware again- all without Arnold being alive or Bernard's touch. This kind of got sideswept, but she's fully there. She knows all about Teddy and she is trying to get him to be sentient too. He just "isn't ready yet". There is way more to this story.
Click to expand...

This is interesting. Do they actually 'figure out' sentience and somehow gain that presence of mind, or do they actually merely fall for the illusion? Ford has stated that Arnold gave them a build in which they could 'hear' their code being vocalised so as to establish the illusion of cognition, so is this just that faux sentience in effect? How do we get from that position to the position of Maeve seeming to really know what she wants? Is that coded too at some deeper level?
 
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Andysol

Andysol

Webslinger
Joined
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  • Dec 1, 2016
  • #420
DragonSlayer said:
This is interesting. Do they actually 'figure out' sentience and somehow gain that presence of mind, or do they actually merely fall for the illusion? Ford has stated that Arnold gave them a build in which they could 'hear' their code being vocalised so as to establish the illusion of cognition, so is this just that faux sentience in effect? How do we get from that position to the position of Maeve seeming to really know what she wants? Is that coded too at some deeper level?
Click to expand...

Isn't that one of the central themes to this show? What is an illusion of sentience? What is sentience? Is there a difference? Aren't we all "coded" in one way or another through our life experiences and genetic makeup where our semblance of "free will" isn't so free at all, but predetermined based on everything "coded" into our human brains already?
Maybe Maeve is just skewed in different ways (higher perception, higher intelligence, etc)- so it appears she is doing more. I'm not familiar enough with human history (is anyone?) to know how we, as a people, started "thinking for ourselves". Was there a lot of bat-poop crazy in the interim?

Arnold was clearly thinking on a completely different plane than Ford. 'Human'- or whatever name you'd give it- has a different meaning to both of them.
 
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